110/16mm Camera Image Quality

[Sirius Glass]

It's so easy to burn through 110 film! I loaded a cartridge and used it up in 30 mins. What I would normally ignore with a serious camera I just snap away with 110. Because -oh hey that looks fun!
And it really helps if u have something like a Pentax Auto110 or Rollei A110 that gives sweet results.

Where do you get it processed so quickly?

 

[Huss]

Where do you get it processed so quickly?

Paul's Photo down the street in Torrance

 

[Bronson Dugnutt]

Had another go with the Minolta 16 Mk II, this time with some 500T. I did a single extra advance between exposures which led to inconsistent frame spacing, but its a nice effect if you know its there.

Vision3 500T in 110 cassette (100 ISO, -2 exposure comp)
ECN-2
W/ 85B

And the obligatory 500T gas pump photo:

 

[Patrick Robert James]

Bronson, that mirrors a lot of the issues I had with reloading 110 without backing paper into a Rollei E110. Light leaks galore. There is no light seal on the back edges and the front actually leaked light horribly. I kind of got tired tracing all the sources of the leaks. The feeler also scratched the film. I've thought about just taking it out since it isn't needed. I use microfilm which has no perfs of course. I also get a lot of space between frames, about the same as you are getting but with only one advance. No holes to stop the film. Kind of end up thinking reloading 110 just isn't worth it. Too many issues and the lack of film counter is a problem. I'll probably end up just getting a 16mm camera, but without the extra real estate of the 110, I might as well just keep using my Minoxes. It is too bad too, because the lens on the Rollei is saweet as is evidenced in Huss' images here.

 

[Bronson Dugnutt]

I stuffed blue tac into the back seams after I loaded the cassette; no leaks this time. I didn't even bother taping the 110 cassette back together.

The viability of reloading 110 cassettes really depends on what camera you have. An unmodified Mk II requires the perf be detected to enable the shutter which rules out unperfed stock. No need to notch the cassette, however. I'm under the impression that the Mk I model is more convenient for reloads, but I don't know the specifics. If I know I want a clean frame for some reason, I can always just do 2 advances with the Mk II. The end of the film is indicated by the shutter no longer cocking, kinda like the mechanism in a Pentax 67 (which takes the same battery as the Mk II btw).

The killer feature of this camera for me is the lens. Wider and faster would be great, but the macro mode used hand-held is a joy if that's your wont. The composition reminds me of the action from a Nikkor 30-110 on tubes I used with my Nikon 1 bodies before that lens' aperture blades went kaput. Working distance is set by the zoom ring with 25mm giving the most magnification at the closest distance. I keep the focus on infinity most of the time but it can be used for a small amount of fine focus if you need to nail a particular framing.

I can get similar results from my 16mm cameras using accessory lenses but none of them are SLRs. 16mm is still more compact and convenient but it's nice to have the option of the advanced features on the MK II. No lenses to collect and I haven't even used the self-timer yet.

Edit: Still tough using 500T @ 400 handheld in low light. The next cassette I split I'll modify for 400 speed metering.

 

[Huss]

 

[Bronson Dugnutt]

Noice... you didn't land your frisbee up there did you?

Pictured via 8x6mm sensor: the previously featured Minolta Mk II and its mirrorless doppelganger, the Nikon V2. The format and ergonomics are strikingly similar but they're very different cameras under the hood.

 

[Cholentpot]

Had another go with the Minolta 16 Mk II, this time with some 500T. I did a single extra advance between exposures which led to inconsistent frame spacing, but its a nice effect if you know its there.

Vision3 500T in 110 cassette (100 ISO, -2 exposure comp)
ECN-2
W/ 85B
View attachment 308231
View attachment 308232

And the obligatory 500T gas pump photo:

View attachment 308234

Plants shots are incredible!

 

[Thwyllo]

I'm curious to know what some folks know from experience the image quality from some specific 110/16mm cameras. Canon 110ED, Minolta 110 Zoom, Rollei A110, Minolta 16 II, and Mamiya 16 Automatic.

I shot with the Minolta 16 II, and I'm not sure it's my scanner film holder, but I wasn't too impressed. Really cool little camera and actually fun to shoot--not fun to load film into! I have the Canon and Minolta 110 cameras and still need to finish the film in them before I can develop, scan and review.

I think as some people have said, especially as this kind of falls under the heading of "Getting good photos from crappy equipment/specs for the sake of it", the key is using your technique to the max - tripod or monopod if you need it, faster film if you can get it (not always easy with 110), dead accurate focussing and so on. I used 110 back when it was for real and got some really outstanding results compared to my later 35mm kit, so its definitely possible.

 

[Helge]

Anyone shot the MEC 16 SB?

I have two of them, but I’ve never gotten around to procuring some suitable film for them.
On paper they look like possibly the greatest 16mm still camera ever.

f2 6 element Heligon. 30mm min focus. 1000th of a second max shutter. TTL selenium metering.

It’s quite hard to find example shots online, done with fine grain film and scanned well.

I’d think it would shine with Ektachrome and… yeah, what fine grained black and white film is actually available in 16mm?
Apart from Foma that is.

The build in filter slot and the fast lens begs for shooting IR. Any kind of Aviphot like film available in 16mm?

 

[xkaes]

How do you overcome the "perforation problem" of the Minolta 110 SLR MKII? The camera need the 110 perforation to operate.

 

[Bronson Dugnutt]

Plants shots are incredible!

Blame the Vision3.... you could take photos of mummified dog turds and still get extremely characteristic, if not amazing, images.

How do you overcome the "perforation problem" of the Minolta 110 SLR MKII? The camera need the 110 perforation to operate.

Load single perf 16mm such that the sprockets engage the feeler mechanism at the bottom of the film gate. Take an exposure, advance the film, cover the lens, fire the shutter, advance the film again. Ready for another exposure. Two 'blank' advances are needed to guarantee a clean non-overlapped frame, as described in my posts above.

This is the same technique you'd have to apply to a 126 camera like a Rollei A26 reloaded with regular 35mm film.

 

[Cholentpot]

Blame the Vision3.... you could take photos of mummified dog turds and still get extremely characteristic, if not amazing, images.



Load single perf 16mm such that the sprockets engage the feeler mechanism at the bottom of the film gate. Take an exposure, advance the film, cover the lens, fire the shutter, advance the film again. Ready for another exposure. Two 'blank' advances are needed to guarantee a clean non-overlapped frame, as described in my posts above.

This is the same technique you'd have to apply to a 126 camera like a Rollei A26 reloaded with regular 35mm film.

The 500T i shoot in 35mm doesn't look that good...

 

[xkaes]

Even if the meter is dead, the MEC 16 SB is the best of the best.

 

[xkaes]

Load single perf 16mm such that the sprockets engage the feeler mechanism at the bottom of the film gate. Take an exposure, advance the film, cover the lens, fire the shutter, advance the film again. Ready for another exposure. Two 'blank' advances are needed to guarantee a clean non-overlapped frame, as described in my posts above.

That's one approach. another is to "notch" the 110 cassette so that the camera doesn't know that a cassette is loaded:

"The sensor on the Mark II camera is in the back of the right well (as viewed from the camera back). This requires a notch to be made in the outside of the supply compartment of the cartridge, which will cause the cartridge to be no longer "light tight". So the camera would have to be loaded/unloaded in the dark at the same time the cartridge was re-loaded with fresh film. The camera's "exposure window" should also be taped over with black tape."

This avoids the two blanks and works with any 16mm film.

 

[ciniframe]

Too bad about the difficulty reloading 110 carts, there were some really interesting cameras made. A few years ago I thought Lomo‘s 110 film was expensive, compared to 35mm. But now a 36x roll of Tri-X is $12! Yikes!
of course I can still reload my Minolta 16 carts fairly cheap, 1 to 2 dollars for 20x. But if I want a larger frame than 10x14mm then I’d need to find a working MGs or QT in Minolta, or just stick with my ratty Kiev 30.

 

[Bronson Dugnutt]

The 500T i shoot in 35mm doesn't look that good...

Hmmm... oughta troubleshoot. I'm using unexpired/fresh film developed in Kodak's formula for ECN-2. Results in 35mm (or half-frame) are similarly cinematic.

That's one approach. another is to "notch" the 110 cassette so that the camera doesn't know that a cassette is loaded:

"The sensor on the Mark II camera is in the back of the right well (as viewed from the camera back). This requires a notch to be made in the outside of the supply compartment of the cartridge, which will cause the cartridge to be no longer "light tight". So the camera would have to be loaded/unloaded in the dark at the same time the cartridge was re-loaded with fresh film. The camera's "exposure window" should also be taped over with black tape."

This avoids the two blanks and works with any 16mm film.

Have you actually tried this or are you just copy pasting something you found on the internet? 'Notching' the supply side to trick the Mk II into thinking there is no cassette present also disables the film advance mechanism. Yes, the shutter cocks but you won't be able to advance your film. Works fine for 'single' frame loads though.

Maybe that 3rd party is confusing the Mk II and the original model.

 

[Cholentpot]

Hmmm... oughta troubleshoot. I'm using unexpired/fresh film developed in Kodak's formula for ECN-2. Results in 35mm (or half-frame) are similarly cinematic.



Have you actually tried this or are you just copy pasting something you found on the internet? 'Notching' the supply side to trick the Mk II into thinking there is no cassette present also disables the film advance mechanism. Yes, the shutter cocks but you won't be able to advance your film. Works fine for 'single' frame loads though.

Maybe that 3rd party is confusing the Mk II and the original model.

I don't develop in ECN-2 and who knows when my film is from. 250 and 50 never seem to have issues but the 500T is quite grainy. I just have to source some fresh stuff in 16mm for my cameras.

 

[Bronson Dugnutt]

I don't know that I've ever actually processed Vision3 stocks (other than 2254, if that counts) in C-41. The color developer is more active than the one used in ECN-2 which accounts for the boosted contrast and other differences (grain?) you see when cross processing.

This is marginally off-topic, but on a whim I tried a reversal cross-process on some 35mm 500T a couple of weeks ago. Badly underexposed for reversal, weak 1st development, and using ECP-2 as the 2nd (color) developer. Super dense 'positives' but I still managed to claw one keeper out of it in post-processing. I might make another attempt in 16mm while actually exposing correctly for reversal.

 

[Huss]

I think as some people have said, especially as this kind of falls under the heading of "Getting good photos from crappy equipment/specs for the sake of it", the key is using your technique to the max - tripod or monopod if you need it, faster film if you can get it (not always easy with 110), dead accurate focussing and so on. I used 110 back when it was for real and got some really outstanding results compared to my later 35mm kit, so its definitely possible.

Tripod use with a 110 camera? Do you not realize the point of a 110 camera?!

I just snap away with wild abandon. The key for me is the process AFTER the picture has been taken. I scan the film myself the same way I would with 35mm or 120 film to get everything I can out of that image. Using a digicam makes that very easy.

 

[Bronson Dugnutt]

My crappy old Steky doesn't have a tripod socket... so much for taking real pictures

 

[faberryman]

I'm curious to know what some folks know from experience the image quality from some specific 110/16mm cameras.

A long, long time ago in a galaxy far, far away, my son received a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 110 camera for his birthday. The results were not, how shall I say, cowabunga.

 

[Cholentpot]

My crappy old Steky doesn't have a tripod socket... so much for taking real pictures

View attachment 308302

That's a nice looking kit.

A long, long time ago in a galaxy far, far away, my son received a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 110 camera for his birthday. The results were not, how shall I say, cowabunga.

Dude.

 

[Bronson Dugnutt]

That's a nice looking kit.

It's probably the oldest camera I own come to think of it; fully functional shutter (B/25/50/100) and film advance. The frame counter reset is broken (or I can't figure out how to use it) but doesn't impact shooting.

Very difficult to keep steady for handheld use due to the lever-style actuation of the self-cocking shutter. Closest focus of the 25cm lens at f16 is just over 2 meters (~7ft).

Steky Model II (ca. 1950?); fixed-focus 25mm 1/100s f/11, yellow filter
Double-X (10x14mm); D-19 reversal 7'

 

[Bronson Dugnutt]

Steky Model II (ca. 1950?); 40mm f5.6
Double-X (10x14mm); D-76 1+2 11'

'Lo-fi' might be an understatement... gotta try some color with this thing sometime.