110/16mm Camera Image Quality

[Cholentpot]

Not sure about where to mention this, but this thread seems as good as any. The Film Photography Project is selling 3D printed Minolta style 16 cartridges. I emailed them and asked if they were felted and they said no but hadn’t had any reports of light leaks. But 3D printing leaves ridges so not sure how film is not scratched when it goes through the slots. Maybe they smooth the film channels but can’t tell from the pictures.
They mentioned some users were applying their own felt.

This is good news.

 

[Huss]

Rollei A110.
The greenish border with detail is actually the picture 'bleeding' over - apparently 110 can cover more area than what is allotted.

 

[Donald Qualls]

Correct -- though it varies between cameras, most can cover at least 13x18, while the pre-exposed frame on commercial film is 12x17mm. I don't know what the reason was behind the pre-exposed frame; it originated on 126 (828 had the same perf setup that carried over to 126, but didn't have the frames exposed on the film).

 

[ciniframe]

Correct -- though it varies between cameras, most can cover at least 13x18, while the pre-exposed frame on commercial film is 12x17mm. I don't know what the reason was behind the pre-exposed frame; it originated on 126 (828 had the same perf setup that carried over to 126, but didn't have the frames exposed on the film).

Only a conjecture but it may have had something to do with automated processing and printing machines. That’s my wild a** guess anyway.

 

[Cholentpot]

Minolta 16II BW400CN

 

[Huss]

Rollei A110

 

[Huss]

What is interesting is the Lomo Metropolis/Purple/Mistaken Identity did not show any light leaks through the backing paper. Lomo Tiger and Orca always has for me.

I just got some new boxes of Lomo Tiger and the packaging has changed. Not sure if that means anything but perhaps they have changed the backing paper. Hmm, will find out.

 

[Cholentpot]

Minolta 16II BW400CN

Is it me or does the rollei seem to be a bit sharper than the Minolta?

 

[Huss]

Minolta 16II BW400CN

Is it me or does the rollei seem to be a bit sharper than the Minolta?

Sharpness is a bourgeois concept.

 

[Huss]

Got my flash cube test back! Bought a few boxes of GE flashcubes off ebay, mfg sometime last century. And they work with the Rollei A110! woo hoo!

There are a bunch of lines throughout this film - not sure if it is a film defect or the lab that did it. Never had an issue with the camera. Just got back another roll (Fukkastsu not Lomo) and will see if that has lines on it.

Anyway, the flash cubes work!

 

[Huss]

Just bought a complete Pentax Auto 110 kit. Actually bought it for the 20 packs of Fuji Superia 110 that came with it, that supposedly spent their lives frozen... That in itself paid for the camera vis a vis new/fresh 110 film..
Anyway, will be interesting to see how it works, and what kind of snaps I can get out of it vs the Rollei.

 

[Cholentpot]

Sharpness is a bourgeois concept.

You should see how smooth the Kiev30 is. A true proletariat camera.

Kiev30, BW400CN

I messed up the film advance somehow in this copy and now frames overlap. I think it continues life as a double stroke camera.

 

[ciniframe]

Good shot Cholentpot. I’ve sent you a PM so check your mailbox.

 

[Kino]

Found a nice Mamiya 16 Automatic camera today at a junk shop. It cleaned up nicely but the meter is dead. No real problem, as it has fully manual controls. Now I have to scrounge a couple of film magazines. I have a TON of Agfa and Ilford 16mm out of date stock I can use and might invest in a slitter later.

 

[Cholentpot]

Found a nice Mamiya 16 Automatic camera today at a junk shop. It cleaned up nicely but the meter is dead. No real problem, as it has fully manual controls. Now I have to scrounge a couple of film magazines. I have a TON of Agfa and Ilford 16mm out of date stock I can use and might invest in a slitter later.

View attachment 273066 View attachment 273067

Great find! I've been hunting for one of these. I'm curious how the lens resolves.

 

[Huss]

Found a nice Mamiya 16 Automatic camera today at a junk shop. It cleaned up nicely but the meter is dead. No real problem, as it has fully manual controls. Now I have to scrounge a couple of film magazines. I have a TON of Agfa and Ilford 16mm out of date stock I can use and might invest in a slitter later.

View attachment 273066 View attachment 273067

That thing is so sweet looking! Post pics taken with it ASAP!!

 

[Huss]

I like to use this building as a test subject, to see how different films treat it as it has multiple colours on it.

Rollei A110, Lomo Mistaken Identity (Metropolis)

 

[Kino]

That thing is so sweet looking! Post pics taken with it ASAP!!

Just found one cassette; should be here in a week or so.

 

[Cholentpot]

Keiv30, Kodak Microlink Microfilm, Rodinal 1:175 1.5 hr stand.

Might be time to upgrade my film. Lens is certainly capable.

 

[Donald Qualls]

Is it me or does the rollei seem to be a bit sharper than the Minolta?

Two factors -- the 10x14 mm negative in the older Minolta 16 models is only about 60% of the 13x17 of the later ones, and the 16 and 16II had a fixed focus lens, set at around 10 feet; without the 0 lens, you have to be at f/11 or smaller to get hyperfocal -- and depth of field is a convenient myth; with the amount of enlargement you need to see what's in a 10x14 mm negative (a 4x6 inch print is 12x enlargement), your real DOF is about a quarter of what the formulas usually give.

 

[Cholentpot]

Two factors -- the 10x14 mm negative in the older Minolta 16 models is only about 60% of the 13x17 of the later ones, and the 16 and 16II had a fixed focus lens, set at around 10 feet; without the 0 lens, you have to be at f/11 or smaller to get hyperfocal -- and depth of field is a convenient myth; with the amount of enlargement you need to see what's in a 10x14 mm negative (a 4x6 inch print is 12x enlargement), your real DOF is about a quarter of what the formulas usually give.

I was being a little sarcastic, but yes. The Minolta negative is small and I don't have a #0 filter...yet. I was shooting fully stopped down. I'm blaming the film in this case. The 400 speed C-41 b&w doesn't play well in such a small format.

 

[Donald Qualls]

The 400 speed C-41 b&w doesn't play well in such a small format.

I usually get very good sharpness and detail with XP2 Super; this may be something specific to the old Kodak products.

 

[ciniframe]

Well, that Kiev 30 shot of the street light has pushed me to go ahead and start shopping for one. Since all my Minolta 16 cartridges will fit it seems a no brainer. I’m also considering strongly the idea of ordering a new Patterson tank and reels and then attempting to modify the reels to adjust for the 16mm film size. Some trepidation there but if I do have the reels in hand and decide it is too complicated or not possible I can still use them for my 35mm and leave the old Yankee Master reels set to 16 permanently.

 

[Donald Qualls]

I’m also considering strongly the idea of ordering a new Patterson tank and reels and then attempting to modify the reels to adjust for the 16mm film size.

There's at least one person (on the Submini-L list, his name is Thin) selling 16mm reels that fit the Paterson tank (pretty sure there's at least one on Thingiverse, too, if you have access to a printer). About $20, so it's cheaper to modify one, but his come ready to use.

 

[Cholentpot]

Well, that Kiev 30 shot of the street light has pushed me to go ahead and start shopping for one. Since all my Minolta 16 cartridges will fit it seems a no brainer. I’m also considering strongly the idea of ordering a new Patterson tank and reels and then attempting to modify the reels to adjust for the 16mm film size. Some trepidation there but if I do have the reels in hand and decide it is too complicated or not possible I can still use them for my 35mm and leave the old Yankee Master reels set to 16 permanently.

The quality of the Kiev varies. The two that I have are the same camera but behave differently. On #1 the flash sync doesn't work, the dials are a a little too depressed into the body and is slightly loose feeling. It also may or may not have light leaks, I intend to test that out today. It does have a more dampened shutter feel. The second one has much better dials but has a snappier shutter and overlaps the frames. The tension thing that keeps the sliding cover tight fell off immediately after I used it though. I ended up taking sliding cover off of #2 and placing it on #1 and the camera feels altogether more solid now.

If there's any resources out there how to adjust a the Kiev's framing spacing I'd give it a try.

There's at least one person (on the Submini-L list, his name is Thin) selling 16mm reels that fit the Paterson tank (pretty sure there's at least one on Thingiverse, too, if you have access to a printer). About $20, so it's cheaper to modify one, but his come ready to use.

$20 is a bargain compared to what 16mm reels are going for on Ebay.