Wet Plate Collodion Questions

[RobertP]

When using the Weld-On adhesives use them sparingly. What they do is actually chemically melt the acrylic and fuse the pieces together. I use Weld-on 3.

 

[schrochem]

I thought I'd throw out an update for those following. I got the plastic pieces and put together my baths. Bruce, if you decide to deal with Regal make sure you talk to an experienced sales person. Mine didn't exactly know what was 'free.' Instead of finding out they did the work anyway and tried to come back with a $50 surcharge because there were some small pieces. The also charged 1sqft per piece! I told her I would have just cut it myself if I'd known that. In the end we reached a settlement. The cool thing was they threw in all these 'scraps' from around the place when I picked up my order. I got all sorts of sizes and colors.
I am glad that they cut the pieces. My jigsaw and bandsaw can't get that smooth.....
Anyway, I was able to assemble two baths and made a helper tray. I also received my chemicals and just made the rest of them today. I made the collodion on wednesday and hope to make a first attempt this weekend.
Tonight I will be 'seasoning' the silver bath and after that I think I'm all set.

I'll probably watch parts of Coffer's dvds again to try and avoid mistakes.
So hopefully I'll have something to show soon......
Scott

 

[RobertP]

Scott. I admire your enthusiasm. Just remember to filter your developer well and filter your varnish even more. Get yourself a hydrometer and filter your silver bath after every printing session. You're gonna have a ball! Oh... filter your fixer too.

 

[schrochem]

Well I just poured the plate to season the silver bath. It went better than I thought. I was a little shy on the amount but other than that it went pretty well.
Robert, yep I have a hydrometer. Use to make my own beer....
Gotcha on the filtering. Everything looks right based on what I've read. So now I just need to try it out. I plan to just do it over and over again to get use to the process. Hopefully I'll actually see something show up on the plates
Scott

 

[schrochem]

Well I had a fun weekend!
I did three plates on saturday and three on sunday.
I posted on quinn's wet plate forum (yes i finally got in!) about some issues I was having. So far, the hardest part seems to be the development. I tried my helper tray but I kept getting islands, so i switched to the tilt tray method.
I was also overdeveloping. I don't know by how much but Sunday I started counting off and used Greg's (from the other forum) suggestion of 12sec for development. That helped a lot with the veiling issues I was having but I still have some. Here is the last plate I took. I have a couple things going on. I was able to rub off some of the scum with my finger (any reason I can't use my finger instead of a cotton square?), but there is still some there (look at the blacks). I also have the chemical swirlies showing up in the upper left and bottom. I think this is all at development. Maybe I need to filter it better. This plate was from the bottom of the developer bottom and there was a little precipitate. I decanted as best I could.....
Also, rinsing after developing. How long in the first bath? Is tap water fine? How long rinsing total before fixing?
Despite the 'issues' (I expected quite a few ) this is pretty damn cool!
Thanks
Scott

 

[RobertP]

Scott, You may want to pay close attention when you are rocking the plate back and forth in the tray. If you have to much developer and it is splashing hard against the side of the tray and then back onto the plate I found can cause some problems. My development seemed much cleaner when I just have the least amount ( enough to cover the plate of course) and just barely keep it moving back and forth on the plate. I hope that makes sense

 

[bill schwab]

Also, rinsing after developing. How long in the first bath? Is tap water fine? How long rinsing total before fixing?

Tap water should be fine. I've been washing fairly vigorously, as shown by Kerik, repeatedly dumping and filling the tray for 25-30 seconds before fixing, then going light and rinsing a bit more for good measure before pouring my fix. He also showed me to rinse the sink where working fairly well just to make sure there is no acetic acid left from the developer to come into contact with the KCN fixer. As you know, acid mixed with KCN is the killer combo. Be careful!

 

[RobertP]

Bill is this in the field in the camper? The KCN and developer isn't going into the same holding tank ( waste water tank) is it?

 

[schrochem]

Thanks for the info fellas. Robert you could be on to something with the rocking. I wasn't 'that' hard with it but it does look like that could have happened. The developing technique seems to be the hardest to get right.....
Bill thanks for the added info on rinsing. I just noticed A LOT of developer in that first bath and didn't think it would be good to stay in there too long.
The only problem I have now is Daylight savings!!!
It might not be til this weekend til I get to play again

Scott

 

[bill schwab]

Bill is this in the field in the camper? The KCN and developer isn't going into the same holding tank ( waste water tank) is it?

NO! Thanks for clarifying this. This is in the darkroom. With Kerik, we fixed outdoors while mobile. KCN was poured back into its bottle for reuse and then final rinsing was out of doors. Developer and fixer rinse never came into contact when mobile.

 

[bill schwab]

Don't fret the cost of the silver nitrate. It will last a long time (unless you forget to latch the lid of your silver bath and it falls over in your mobile darkroom when you leave your shooting site, which I managed to do a couple weeks ago. It made for a very expensive stain on the floor of my camper/darkroom.)

Onto which I placed my camera bag.. now it has "black paws" too!

As for the silver nitrate, I have found a local supplier that offers it only in 500 gram lots. Only 237.00 for the 500 grams though. Anyone intersted in a group buy for future use? They have USP Collodion and Ether as well for a pretty good price.

Bill

 

[smieglitz]

Onto which I placed my camera bag.. now it has "black paws" too!

As for the silver nitrate, I have found a local supplier that offers it only in 500 gram lots. Only 237.00 for the 500 grams though. Anyone intersted in a group buy for future use? They have USP Collodion and Ether as well for a pretty good price.

Bill

I'm game.

 

[schrochem]

At under 50cents a gram that's tempting Bill. However, I have enough for the foreseeable future. You did remind me that I have a local distributor also. I might have to use them to save on shipping to score some kcn or ether. Or course I'd have to use the lab I work for as a front....Right now I'm just 'borrowing' some ether and kcn we have at the lab.
Speaking of silver nitrate, I officially have black paws. But it's more like speckled hands I swear more and more spots kept showing up the following day. Had to explain that to the coworkers
Scott

 

[RobertP]

Artcraft Chemicals.....silver nitrate- 175.00/lb

 

[schrochem]

I varnished some plates last night. That went pretty well except the pour off edge. No matter how long I waited for the varnish to quit collecting (dabbing off with a paper towel), I'd still get some 'roll back' on that edge.
It's nice to see the final image. It restores some of the qualities of the plate before dry down. VERY cool!
But I still want to get some clean plates for those deep blacks. So next time I plan to watch the back and forth during development. Also, I might dry the back of the plate again after exposure. I dry it well before putting it in the holder but sometimes it sticks the backing glass. Which leads me to believe a little rolls off and gets back under there.
Earlier in this thread most mentioned you used the sugar developer. Mind if I ask which formulation? I'm using coffer's formula of 200mL water, 10g Ferrous, 12g sugar, and 8ml glacial.
Over on Quinn's site I saw his sugar developer and wondered if it would be less agressive. I'm doing all my chemistry inside the house so temperature shouldn't be an issue.
Thanks
Scott

 

[RobertP]

Scott. I think any differences in the sugar developers would be so subtle that you wouldn't notice any difference in performance whatsoever. But give them a try and do a comparison. Let us know what you think.

 

[Bruce Schultz]

I found that Coffer's formula of no alcohol to the sugar developer causes several problems, including holes in the development, weird colorations, etc. Quinn's formula has worked better for me.

I got some neat effects with vigorous shaking of my helper tray. That caused a frothing of the developer in the corners and I got some neat bubbling. Now I intentionally do that if I know the edges and corners don't have any details that I want to preserve. It's amazing how I've gone from trying to achieve perfection (and never achieved it) with film negatives having no scratches or imperfections, and now I hope that I get some flaws. Heck, I even think about intentionally breaking a glass neg just to get the cracked effect.

 

[Kerik]

Just to clarify what Bill said... In the field, the fix is ALWAYS outside of the camper. Fixing/rinsing is only done outside and the waste water is collected separately from the wastewater from development/rinsing. Also, I fix in a tray and never have more than 200 or 300 ml of fix in solution.

 

[Bruce Schultz]

I'm amazed at the number of people who have their KCN in a darkbox just inches from the developer. I'm way too sloppy for that. If it can be spilled, I'll spill it.

 

[RobertP]

Just to clarify what Bill said... In the field, the fix is ALWAYS outside of the camper. Fixing/rinsing is only done outside and the waste water is collected separately from the wastewater from development/rinsing. Also, I fix in a tray and never have more than 200 or 300 ml of fix in solution.

Thanks for clearing that up Kerik. A cloud of cyanide gas inside that camper/darkroom could really ruin your day.

 

[schrochem]

Okay, I had some more time with the collodion
I'm pretty comfortable with pouring the plate.
The only thing is buildup along the two pour off edges.
Is that normal?

A couple of areas of concern are developing and varnishing.
Varnishing is pretty straight forward except the pour off edges.
I have to try really hard to get any build up off those edges or it will flow back when heated.
Any suggestions?

Ahhh development....
I noticed something today when taking the plate out of the holder after exposure. There was some obvious build up of solution on one edge. I notice that the plate has quite a bit of 'mobile' fluid on it when taking it out of the bath.
Do yall try to let that drain off more than just a few seconds?
I'm using a dry plate holder that hits the plate all the way around about 1/8".
So the liquid come in contact. I do dry it well between plates though.
Also, I'm getting a bit of collodion on the back of the plate so I don't know if that's part of the issue with scum and swirlies.

As for the development. I am definitely trying to keep those times down and that seems to help with the 'scum.' However, there is still some there that doesn't wipe off. BTW anything wrong with just using your finger to wipe off the plate?

When done 'in hand' how exactly is the developer poured on?


I know that's a lot of questions but if you can answer anyone of them I'd appreciate the help.
Thanks

 

[RobertP]

Scott, I'm getting the same ledge along the pour off edges. I wondering if that isn't normal or if my pours are to much in volume and the collodion is setting up before it has a chance to run off. I've been siding on to much collodion on a pour instead of having a short pour. The ridges along the edge aren't very noticable after the plate is processed, But very much so before hand. You may want to post this question on the other forum. Robert

 

[Ty G]

Yes, the ridges are common. They will vary in thickness with collodion formula's as well as temperatures sometimes. A high alcohol collodion is more "runny" and will have less buildup.

I wouldn't try to rub the scum off with your finger. The roughness will tear the wet collodion.

In-hand development is just holding the plate with one hand and slowly pour the developer across the plate and not letting it spill off. Rock the plate back and forth allowing developer the work around the plate, then pour off when done. This is the only development method I use.

Development times, in my opinion are just a goal, not a rule. I regularly go for 30 seconds depending on temp, humidity, etc.

 

[nick mulder]

Hello,

I've seen some really nice stuff in WPC lately and have been thinking about giving it a go.

I also work in Palladium (standard, although I'd like to try Ziatype in my next chem order) and also a little solarplate/photogravure ...

Couple of questions - I see the results are quite high-contrast >would the negative process yield a good neg for palladium printing ? I could simply replace the glass in my contact frame with the glass neg... very nice if possible.

The positive obtained by using a black-backing as I understand it is an optical effect, like holding standard negs up to a light... so I couldn't use it as a transparency for solarplate ? (which uses positives to expose the plate)


I have an 8x10 Sinar P with a 360mm lens that covers 11x14 - I am thinking of making a 11x14 wet plate back that can also reduce to hold smaller sizes, and a simple GG for composition - I'll make a simple bag bellows or three for different focusing distances (infinity and a good portrait size for 8x10 and 11x14 magnification maybe)

Are there any instructions or drawings of how a simple wet plate holder is put together ? Just the essentials really, I can work out the rest.

In the meantime I could just stick to 8x10 and use my current Sinar rear frame with a modified Lisco/Fidelity holder - any instructions on how to modify them ?

It would be a really nice feeling if I could cut out using film altogether...

 

[smieglitz]

Mark Osterman's film holder conversion from The Collodion Journal

Instead of using the silver wire, I think most of us have simply affixed plastic or aluminum corners to the face of the cut-out septum. This puts the plate surface at the right distance. (I put a small piece of sheet film under my corners as a spacer to ensure the correct focal plane.)

You can see how I converted an 11x14 dryplate holder for wetplate use by using acrylic corners in the attached pics. I removed the septum and used the resultant slot to hold the corners. I used this method in case I wanted to replace the corners easily. 10x12 is the maximum plate size I use. A converted film/dryplate holder usually has a plate size capacity slightly small than the original format (e.g., 1/4-plate in a 4x5 holder, 10x12 in an 11x14, etc.,).

There's a guy on eBay selling a manual on "How To Make a Wetplate Holder" and also "How To Make a Wetplate Camera," each at ~$20USD IIRC. I have the holder manual and though I haven't made a holder yet, his instructions seem like they would work adequately. The instructions are for making a small holder (1/4-plate IIRC) though the dimensions could be expanded for other sizes. Even if you don't make the holder to his instructions, the manual will give you an idea on what they look like. Also, if you make the largest size you'll need, smaller inserts can be made for other formats.

I just purchased a wetplate camera off eBay and the listing for item #290171241838 with pics of the holder, inserts, and wetplate back is still up. The pics can give you an idea of the back & holder construction.

Joe