Wet Plate Collodion Questions

[schrochem]

okay here's a quickie kiddie draw of how the fabric (in blue) looked when I installed it. The top came down quite a bit and I made it snug so it would not hang down and get in my face. The red lines are about where I put a pleat in. A nice little side benefit of a narrow tube is it come up off the end of the table (where my belly hits it) to form kind of a backboard barrier.

 

[schrochem]

one more thing....
I still haven't decided on how I'm going to do the legs
I stopped off at the hardware store and was brainstorming. I still think the dolly/table is doable but it might be more rugged to just pull it around with one of these. I could load the box, table (or legs), chemicals, camera, etc. all up in there and pull it through the wilderness....

 

[smieglitz]

Looking good Scott. When does it get its first use? Be sure to post some pics.

 

[RobertP]

The side pleats are a great idea! Robert

 

[bill schwab]

Nice job Scott! I'm trying to decde if I want a free-standing box, or if I want to modify the back of my Jeep. Looking at yours, I realize both are possible in one.

Bill

 

[schrochem]

I'm definitely going out this weekend, but I really want to sneak out of work sometime sooner...
Bill, I didn't remember the skid til I was dosing off to sleep last night.
I was just going to throw it in the back sans skid and use it.
After a little testing I realized I want the table at about 42" (I'm 6'3").
With the skid it's right about that height.
Now I need to decide how I want to do the legs so I can venture from the truck.
Oh...also with the fabric. I was trying to use less cuz it's pricey and I wanted a little left over to make a darkcloth.
I'll pick up some white nylon ripstop at the fabric store and whip up a nice light darkcloth.

 

[RobertP]

This is a dark cloth the little woman made for me. This is made with a light weight gortex material. It is white on one side and black on the other. She then lined it with black china silk. It is around the 14x14 tailboard wet-plate camera in the photo. I'm still not sure about the black china silk it is quite slippery. When she asked how I liked it the first time I used it, I replied..."well its kind of like wearing your panties on my head dear." It actually works very well and it has already saved the camera from a rain storm...very waterproof. It fits my 8x20 and 12x20 film cameras and just by chance it fit the 14x14 tailboard as well. She added elastic at the top with velcro closures at the bottom and a couple of pockets that weights can be put in at the bottom on windy days. Actually it is a little off white more like a very light gray.

 

[Kerik]

"well its kind of like wearing your panties on my head dear."

Robert, I always new you were the romantic type.

 

[RobertP]

" What light through yonder window breaks. It is the east and Juliet is the sun. Cast off fair sun and kill thy envious moon. For she is far far more fair than thee"..........

 

[schrochem]

So robert you like to wear panties on your head huh?
That's a nice looking darkcloth. I plan to have the porter's stuff inside and the white ripstop on the outside bordered with some grosgrain or bias tape. I'm not sure how I'm going to do attachment yet. I had the BTZS tube for my 4X5 and 8X10 before they got sold off... I might do the elastic, but I might explore string and a toggle or perhaps shock cord and a toggle.
I didn't know you had an 8X20 and 12X20. Lucky dog! I'd love to play with ULF. I've even considered going up to 11X14 for wetplate, but that will be down the road a bit. Did you get the 14X14 from Ray? Is it the NE plus ultra? I wouldn't suppose there are any movements on that thing?? Seems like a very fair price for such a large camera.

 

[RobertP]

Ah shucks Kerik.......thanks

 

[RobertP]

Scott, Yes it is a Star N E Plus. It does have a rise and fall front standard. But other than that no other movements. It is basically a replica of an old tailboard. And I've kinda gotten away from wearing her panties on my head over the years. Especially now since they are no longer silk but flannel.

 

[RobertP]

I hope she doesn't read this

 

[RobertP]

If anyone is interested the Gortex is a thin 2-ply. White and black. I think she got it from a place in Colorado called Rockymountain fabrics or something like that. I'll ask her the details. But if I recall she said she had about 60.00 in materials in the whole thing. Now according to her that is about 1060.00 if she had charged me for her time. The nice thing about it is it weighs about 1/3 of the weight as my old horse blanket and its much cooler in the summer and extremely waterproof.

 

[schrochem]

so it's flannel hats now?
Luckily I do my own sewing so I can't get hit with the steep labor costs!

I have something else I've been meaning to ask about.
I have an itch to get another brass lens.
However, I'm not sure what!
Actually I'd like a soft focus petzval type lens.
BUT I don't really know much about the older lenses.
Any suggestions for wetplate work?
I'd like it to cover 8X10 and be suitable for portrait and landcape.
However, I don't want to pay a lot of money.....
I know, I know have my cake and eat it to..
One reason I ask is Dead Link Removed has a bunch on the block
thanks

 

[RobertP]

What size lens boards does your camera take? A nice lens would be something like the Dallmeyer 3A. But you will need at least a 6x6 if not larger lens board to mount it on. When you're talking about F4 lenses they can get pretty huge. The 3A has waterhouse stops that will give you the depth of field needed for landscape and it will still cover 8x10 and 11x14 at portrait distances. Also a large Jamin Darlot would be nice for portraits.

 

[RobertP]

I have an older Brass Dallmeyer Rapid Rectilinear 16x18 ( about 25") it is F8 and it will fit on a 5 1/4 x5 1/4 lens board, but barely. Its not actually a portrait lens but it very well could be used as one. Or a little more modern lens would be something like a Wollensak 14 1/2" Verito which would probably also work well.

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

I've got a Jamin Darlot that misses the corners of 11x14 at infinity, but fully illuminates at portrait distances. Not sure what the f-stop is, in part because I haven't been able to calculate the actual focal length- no waterhouse slot, so I can't tell quite what the nodal point is to measure from the ground glass. It appears to be something around a 14" or so, and I'll put it somewhere between f5 and f8. The barrel itself is somewhere around 10" long, and 4 1/2" in diameter. I've got it ghetto-rigged on a 6 1/2" sq. lensboard. With the lens being wide-open all the time, the depth of field is quite minimal. It should produce very nice swirly-whirlies in the background.

 

[RobertP]

Scott, I see the guy also has an 8x10 Versar which he states is 20" focal length. The Versar is an F6 portrait and view and he also states that it is 20" focal length but the 8x10 is actually a 10 3/4" focal length. Now it may be 20" if he is using it as a convertible. I have a Versar 17x20 ( 22 1/2") which is the largest they made and I love it for film. I may give it a try on 11x14 wet plate, but I don't have enough bellows to use it for a head and shoulders shot.

 

[Kerik]

Actually I'd like a soft focus petzval type lens.

Just and FYI on this. As Jason Motamedi has pointed out on similar threads, a Petzval is NOT a soft focus lens. They are in fact quite sharp (for their age) in the center. Those of us using them often use them on much larger plate (or film) sizes than they were designed for, so farther away from the center of the image you start getting the cool swirly bokeh going on. But, this is not the same as a true soft focus lens like the Verito, Pinkham and Smith, Kodak Portrait, Imagon, etc. Completely different animal. That said, my most used lenses for wet plate are a Derogy No. 3 Portrait lens (petzval design) for 8x10 and Dallmeyer 3A (petzval) for 11x14. But, also in heavy rotation are various soft focus lenses (18" Verito being the fave), a single-element landscape lens, Dagors, Artars, etc.

 

[RobertP]

Kerik, Isn't the Verito a petzval design? I mean as you stop down you get a sharper image out to the corners. Wouldn't that happen also with a Dallmeyer 3A if you used a small enough waterhouse stop? But the Verito is considered a soft focus lens and the Dallmeyer is not? I thought what made them a petzval design was the fact that there is one element up front and two in the back. Then again I'm no optics expert.

 

[schrochem]

ewww....I knew talkin' bout lenses would wake yall up!
Thanks for the input. Kerik thanks for the clarification and for muddying the water....
Sheesh, now I just want to try all sorts of different lenses and see what I get.
The cool thing about wet plate is not worrying about a shutter!
When I was in LF before I just used modern glass.
I never ventured into this cool world of possibilities.
My entire style is changing with the wet plate process...and I love it.
There is this 'sterility' that my film and digital photography has in comparison.
It's just TOO precise, accurate, clean, whatever.
Anyway, back to the lenses...
I'm not sure about the lenseboards because the camera came with two lenses already mounted on the boards.
Definitely not 6X6 though. I also wish I had more bellows.
I did see that the wolly veritos were damn pricey and if I'm not mistaken so are those Dallmeyers.
I don't have a damn clue at all the different types of ____ars
I learned about dagors after I got one with the camera.
But other than that, artars, versars, protars, __ars ain't so clear.
I do like the very sharp thin plane with lots of bokeh look.
thanks gents

 

[RobertP]

I know when comparing my Versar to my Verito, although the Versar has a lot of character it can never get the diffusion or abberations that the Verito will. The specular highlights that can be achieved with the Verito is unlike any other lens I've used. Of course the Versar is RR design with 2 elements up front and 2 in the back. The nice thing about them both is they can be used as a convertible without any loss of image quality. That makes a 18" Verito a 30" soft focus lens when using just the rear element. Using it that way Kerik can be doing 20x24 wet plate.

 

[RobertP]

Can you imagine Brady and Gardner doing their Imperial plates 18x22 and 20x24. They were probably mixing collodion in 5 gallon buckets.

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

Another fun lens is a Vesta. I have a Vesta by another name (Seneca Portrait F5, 6 1/2 x 8 1/2). They were sold by Wollensak under a variety of names. There's one up on Ebay right now as a SeRoCo Portrait lens. As a Sears, most people won't recognize it as a Vesta, and so it will probably go cheap. At portrait (headshot) distances, it probably will cover 8x10, possibly missing the corners. It is also convertible, and covers 8x10 handily when converted, although I think it loses some of the soft-yet-sharp effect when converted. For some examples from it, everything shot on this page was done with it:

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)