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Using and replenishing XTOL

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Gerald C Koch said:
As with some many things in photography it eventually comes down to preference. I personally like the consistency of one-shots. There is nothing more annoying than a bunch of negatives that are more or less contrasty than usual. If that means sacrificing finer grain then that is fine with me. Embrace the grain.
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One does not exclude the other. Xtol is very consistent when replenished. Using it as replenished does not automatically make it inconsistent.
 
Once burned, twice shy. So no to Xtol.
 
I've always been interested in this idea but only for reasons of economy. I read through all of this thread and another even longer thread. If the replenished Xtol working solution has "similar" activity to 1+1 then I can't see what advantage that has over one-shot 1+1 other than economy. I also find it a bit strange that it is suggested to develop say 7-8 rolls of film using Xtol from the working bottle and only then start replenishing. Not only will the activity of the developer change over those 7-8 rolls but it will continue to change until it reaches steady-state with replenishment. Surely this will lead to inconsistent results? The one thing I particularly dislike about the idea of replenishment is putting used developer back into the working solution which could contaminate it with any dust or dirt that may have been present on the film. A 5 litre pack of Xtol lasts me about 10 months at 1+1 one-shot (33x35mm films at 150ml stock a time or 20x120 films at 250 ml stock per time) which is cheap anyway compared to the cost of film.
 
Replenishment is the most economical use of XTOL.
 
Svenedin said:
I've always been interested in this idea but only for reasons of economy. I read through all of this thread and another even longer thread. If the replenished Xtol working solution has "similar" activity to 1+1 then I can't see what advantage that has over one-shot 1+1 other than economy. I also find it a bit strange that it is suggested to develop say 7-8 rolls of film using Xtol from the working bottle and only then start replenishing. Not only will the activity of the developer change over those 7-8 rolls but it will continue to change until it reaches steady-state with replenishment. Surely this will lead to inconsistent results? The one thing I particularly dislike about the idea of replenishment is putting used developer back into the working solution which could contaminate it with any dust or dirt that may have been present on the film. A 5 litre pack of Xtol lasts me about 10 months at 1+1 one-shot (33x35mm films at 150ml stock a time or 20x120 films at 250 ml stock per time) which is cheap anyway compared to the cost of film.
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I suggest you actually try it before knocking it, the complaints you have will most likely go away.

As to the dust, a funnel with a screen works well plus, on occasion, the use of a coffee filter.
 
markbarendt said:
I suggest you actually try it before knocking it, the complaints you have will most likely go away.

As to the dust, a funnel with a screen works well plus, on occasion, the use of a coffee filter.
Click to expand...

I probably would try it if I was a high-volume user but seeing as I am only spending about £15 a year on Xtol (which is the only developer I use at the moment) it really doesn't seem worth the hassle or possible drawbacks.
 
August 2017 was the tenth anniversary of my 1.6 litre working stock of replenished Xtol. That batch that I started back in August 2007 has done hundreds of films, both sheet films in open trays and roll films in tanks, and it has never failed to deliver gratifying results. I doubt if any of the original molecules are still in the stock bottle.

Because of all the open tray development I do my Xtol stock encounters extra oxidation and I replenish at the rate of 90ml per film. Developer activity is less than fresh but has remained constant since September 2007. For example Tmax400 comes out beautifully in 11minutes at 20C. The Xtol stock gets filtered a couple of times a year to remove a tiny trace of sediment that I suspect is calcium ascorbate cast down from the tap water I use for all processing solutions.

Xtol is getting more expensive and my developer cost has now risen to 30 cents per film.
 
Svenedin said:
I probably would try it if I was a high-volume user but seeing as I am only spending about £15 a year on Xtol (which is the only developer I use at the moment) it really doesn't seem worth the hassle or possible drawbacks.
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One thing that most people don't understand is that for many developers, Xtol included IIRC, replenishment was the design standard; one shot use was secondary.

Labs typically use replenished developers.

Consistency is one of the biggest reasons for that.
 
Maris said:
August 2017 was the tenth anniversary of my 1.6 litre working stock of replenished Xtol. That batch that I started back in August 2007 has done hundreds of films, both sheet films in open trays and roll films in tanks, and it has never failed to deliver gratifying results. I doubt if any of the original molecules are still in the stock bottle.

Because of all the open tray development I do my Xtol stock encounters extra oxidation and I replenish at the rate of 90ml per film. Developer activity is less than fresh but has remained constant since September 2007. For example Tmax400 comes out beautifully in 11minutes at 20C. The Xtol stock gets filtered a couple of times a year to remove a tiny trace of sediment that I suspect is calcium ascorbate cast down from the tap water I use for all processing solutions.

Xtol is getting more expensive and my developer cost has now risen to 30 cents per film.
Click to expand...

Well if you can keep a replenishment regime going as long as that maybe I'll try it!
 
One of the things I like about using replenished developers is that it permits me to always work at room temperature - adjusting only the development time to take into account the ambient temperature. The only solution temperature need to adjust is the wash water.
 
Interesting read. I just use a little plastic tub as a bain-marie but it's certainly appealing to just adjust to room temperature, especially as we go >20C into summer here.
And using 1:1 one-shot, I do burn through a pack in pretty quick time.

To start me off.
Can I start with 2L of straight-up fresh XTOL to develop, keep it after first use, and just keep adding 70ml fresh XTOL for every roll (135/120) I develop subsequently.
Maintain times as per undiluted XTOL?
Simple as that?
Thanks.
 
c41 said:
Interesting read. I just use a little plastic tub as a bain-marie but it's certainly appealing to just adjust to room temperature, especially as we go >20C into summer here.
And using 1:1 one-shot, I do burn through a pack in pretty quick time.

To start me off.
Can I start with 2L of straight-up fresh XTOL to develop, keep it after first use, and just keep adding 70ml fresh XTOL for every roll (135/120) I develop subsequently.
Maintain times as per undiluted XTOL?
Simple as that?
Thanks.
Click to expand...
Pretty close.
Add the 70 ml to the remaining working solution while the film is in the developer.
Than, at the end of the developing time, when you pour the developer back out of the developing tank into your working solution container, you will have around 70 ml of excess, which you discard.
Start with the times for undiluted X-Tol. Once the developer is seasoned, you will find that the 1+1 times will be closer to your "standard". It takes about 5 rolls to season the developer, so if you increase your times about 1/5 of the difference for each of the first 5 rolls, you should be happy.
The biggest challenge is to break the habit of discarding developer at the end of the developing time.
 
Thanks Matt. Copy you loud and clear on breaking the 'habit of discarding'. We've all been there!

And just to be absolutely crystal clear - I discard 70ml of the developer that I just developed with:
[1] before I return it to the replenished working stock or
[2] after I return it to the replenished working stock?

Hope that makes sense, thanks.
Richard
 
re: "adjust for temperature"
Well, that's no magic bullet. You need to chart the temperature time as I don't think there's a standard "+X degree over 20 deg. C, use f(x) time"

re: replenishing
It's really not that difficult.

You have two bottles, bottle A is your working solution, bottle B is your replenishment. Both start out as just mixed Xtol and B remains that way.
  1. When you are developing, pour X ml out of A where X is the minimum amount for your tank and rolls of film
  2. Pour from B, 70ml per roll into A.
  3. When development is done, top A with the used developer and discard the rest of the used developer
 
The development dial in the Kodak Darkroom Dataguides works great for adjusting for temperature. Arrive at your development number with normal testing, and then go from there.
 
Richard Man said:
When you are developing, pour X ml out of A where X is the minimum amount for your tank and rolls of film
Click to expand...
When you use replenishment, you no longer need worry about minimum amounts. I fill my 1 litre Paterson tank with one litre of developer, no matter how many or how few rolls I'm developing. As almost all of the developer goes back into the bottle for re-use, there is no concern about wasting developer, and I never have to worry about not covering the reels.
Where this really shines is where you are developing sheet films, where some of the tanks take several litres of liquid, even if you are only developing one sheet.
One caveat - while I have used and recommend X-Tol replenished, I/m actually currently using HC-110 replenished with the now long discontinued special purpose HC-110 replenisher. I've fine tuned that combination to my liking, but it is a fair bit more finicky than X-Tol to use replenished, so I recommend X-Tol (or T-Max RS) for anyone starting replenishment now. Special purpose replenishers are, relatively speaking, much more of a bother to use.
 
Svenedin,
I love Xtol replenished, but that doesn't mean you have to. I also like Pyrocat-HDC for somethings, but Xtol replenished has now become my main developer of choice. As far as it being cheaper and me being Dutch, cost is not my reason for using it. My reasons are ease of use, consistency and the seasoned developer gives me results I just plain like.
 
@ Matt King, yes room temperature development and adjusting times accordingly sounds quite handy. However, my room temperatures are significantly lower than 20 C for about 6 months of the year so I think I might have to warm up the developer every time which could be a nuisance. I will have to try it and see whether temperatures are acceptable. I do like the idea of not worrying about using only 300ml for a 35mm film and being able to use more liquid.
@ John Weigerink, I think I will try it the next time I mix up a fresh batch. My current batch is already 10 months old. I will have to get a 2.5L brown glass bottle for my working solution and I do not have such a large bottle at the moment.
 
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