Using and replenishing XTOL

[Arklatexian]

For the last 7 years XTOL has been my go to developer for pretty much everything and I've always used it as a one-shot, 1:1. I have been considering trying to go the route of using it as stock and replenishing, but I have a few questions.

1. I have heard people talk fondly of 'seasoned' XTOL, but I've never got a great answer as far as why that is better than using it diluted 1:1. So, what's the big plus of using stock XTOL and replenishing?

2. When do you start replenishing? Do you start after the very first roll or do you allow it to 'season' before beginning to replenish?

3. As far as the replenisher goes, does one just use stock XTOL? From my understanding you just make up a batch and spilt it, use one as the working solution and the other as the replenisher.

4. As far as storing the working solution, do you need to store it a container that has room for the replenisher you will add down the road? I've never understood this part of replenishment, if I'm adding 70ml for every roll I process wouldn't I basically be overflowing my container the first time I replenished if I'm storing the working solution in a container with little to no head room?

5. What do you do when you run out of replenisher? Is that when the solution gets dumped? If I say make a 5L batch and split it 50/50 for working solution and replenisher(assuming that is the correct thing to do, see question 3) once that that 2.5L replenisher is used up do I start over or do I just get more XTOL and keep replenishing? If that is the case, is there a point where the working solution needs to be dumped?

Thanks in advance and if you have any other tips or pointers for using XTOL this let me know!

Can't give you advice on XTOL but years ago, I knew of several studios that used D-76 in 3 1/2 gal. tanks and when they mixed fresh developer, they would hold out 8 oz. of the old developer and pour it into the new developer to "season" it. I haven't heard that term in years. They said new D-76 was more active than the old and using some of the old took the "edge" off of the new. They all did beautiful work......Regards!

 

[darkroommike]

Yeah we seasoned our fresh D-76, ours was a sort of bastard line since we used D-76 1+1 in a 3.5 gallon line replenished with D-76 R. I don't know who came up with that brew but both of our full timers (I was still in school and work study) had studied at the US Navy School of Photography (the best photography school in the country at that time). Worked for us, we processed 35mm and 120 in baskets in that line. Large format and 70mm was souped in Polydol (a developer I really miss) sort of a higher energy Microdol-X in that it tanned or stained the negatives a little brown like Microdol-X. Polydol was unusual in that the instructions suggest you NOT season it before use. We used Polydol Replenisher in the Polydol tank. The other way to achieve seasoning is with a developer starter, Kodak recommends a couple of color starters that can be used with Xtol.

 

[MattKing]

FWIW, seasoning is way more important for commercial operations seeking to re-start a high volume line from scratch than it is for someone starting to use X-Tol replenished for the first time.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Would I be correct to assume that all those here who keep Xtol for extended periods are mixing it in water that is purified in some way (such as distillation or deionized)? I'm interested as I'm about to do 4x5 in a Jobo 2500 series tank with inversion not rotation so re-use is appealing.
Where I live the water out of the tap is fine for every developer that I've used, but Xtol might be more susceptible to impurities I'm led to believe.

I have very hard water in Los Angeles but I have always used tap water without any problems with XTOL or any other developer due to the water.

 

[John Wiegerink]

Is stock replenished solution equal in potency to fresh solution? Say I want to start using my stock in diluted one time solutions can I get away with this?

First, if I understand you right, the "STOCK/WORKING" solution is what you develop your film in. The "REPLENISHER" solution is what you add to your stock to keep it alive. The "STOCK/WORKING" solution should never be tampered with or diluted. Now the "REPLENISHER" is nothing more then good old Xtol straight, just the way you mix it right out of the yellow bag. So, if you wanted to try a roll of film at say 1+3 dilution you'd take 1oz. of "REPLENISHER" and add 3 oz. of water since the "REPLENISHER" is nothing more than straight Xtol. Keep your hands off your "STOCK/WORKING" jug and only use it the way it was meant to be used by adding 70 to 80ml. of "REPLENISHER" after each roll. It sounds more complicated than it really is. Trust me, if I can do it anybody can.

 

[John Wiegerink]

I have very hard water in Los Angeles but I have always used tap water without any problems with XTOL or any other developer due to the water.

Hard water probably would be okay, but if you get rust stains in your tub or sink..............look out. Iron content that high won't be good.

 

[Sirius Glass]

First, if I understand you right, the "STOCK/WORKING" solution is what you develop your film in. The "REPLENISHER" solution is what you add to your stock to keep it alive. The "STOCK/WORKING" solution should never be tampered with or diluted. Now the "REPLENISHER" is nothing more then good old Xtol straight, just the way you mix it right out of the yellow bag. So, if you wanted to try a roll of film at say 1+3 dilution you'd take 1oz. of "REPLENISHER" and add 3 oz. of water since the "REPLENISHER" is nothing more than straight Xtol. Keep your hands off your "STOCK/WORKING" jug and only use it the way it was meant to be used by adding 70 to 80ml. of "REPLENISHER" after each roll. It sounds more complicated than it really is. Trust me, if I can do it anybody can.

Working solution is the replenished or about to be replenished XTOL. Stock solution had never been used as developer and is used to add to the working solution at 70ml per roll.

 

[weebz]

Thank you so much to everyone that has posted! I was not expecting such a great conversation to come out of my questions lol. I got more Xtol on the way and I think I'm ready to give this a shot!

 

[John Wiegerink]

Working solution is the replenished or about to be replenished XTOL. Stock solution had never been used as developer and is used to add to the working solution at 70ml per roll.

True, but when I'm talking a replenish developer I used the term Stock/Working, but I should have used the term "WORKING STOCK". I mainly did that so weebz would understand the difference, which it sounds like he does.

 

[Gerald C Koch]

One more point about the Fenton reaction. The reaction is catalyzed by iron (II) and copper (I) ions. It is also a kinetic reaction. How rapidly ascorbate is destroyed is dependent on the concentration of the two mentioned ions. Chelating them effectively removes them from the developer solution. However no chelating agent is 100% effective. Some are better than others and it is important to look at the stability constant for any complex. In general the more stable the ion-chelate complex the slower the Fenton reaction proceeds. This is the important part, the reaction can never be completely halted. This means that Xtol EVEN with the chelating agent DTPA will eventually die. Therefor I believe that it is important to follow Kodak storage life recommendations. A clip test is not that accurate and really says that there is some activity present. It is far better to periodically process a test strip as you would normally process film. This is what commercial labs do.

Iron is a common contaminant of both water supplies and the chemicals used to make developers. In addition if you have copper plumbing you have copper in your water. Believe me I have seen the characteristic blue stains where a tap drips a bit. If you use Xtol then you are as fine as can be. However if you mix an Xtol clone then it is probably better to follow the method used in Crawley's FX-55. That is to add the developing agents to the developer just before using it.

 

[miha]

For those wanting to replenish a MQ developer: http://www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/20129191256261906.pdf

 

[Chris Livsey]

What replenished developer is all about is well explained by Ilford, this aimed at machine processing where it is more common but the principles remain the same:

PROCESSING WITH REPLENISHED DEVELOPER The effect of use on a replenished developer system The reaction that takes place during the film development releases by-products (halides) into the developer, uses up developing agents and changes the developers pH. These combine to reduce the activity of the developer and without replenishment the developer gradually ceases to function adequately and eventually becomes exhausted.
Replenishment has two key functions. It replaces the active ingredients used during development and dilutes the by-products that have been formed. A replenished developer is said to be fully “seasoned” when the addition of the replenisher compensates exactly for the new by-products produced by development. At this point the concentration of halides and active ingredients have reached an equilibrium or steady state. It is maintaining this equilibrium that gives a machine developer performance consistency. Provided that the developer is used regularly, replenishment continues and all other factors remain the same, i.e. the concentration of the active ingredients, the by-products, etc., then the developer should perfom consistently for a long period of time.

Source: http://www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/201142710428680.pdf

 

[Mr Bill]

What replenished developer is all about is well explained by Ilford, this aimed at machine processing where it is more common but the principles remain the same:

It's a pretty good summary. The key effects missing are the effect of aerial oxidation and evaporation. These largely determine whether one's processing "volume" is enough to support replenishment. As long as these effects are relatively small, it's no problem.

 

[phelger]

For years I've used Xtol undiluted to my satisfaction. Your praise of replenishment is however tempting me - added sharpness and finer grain, better temperature latitude - this sounds promising.
My question : with 135 film I usually bulkload 10-15 frames ie. less than half a full lenght film, and then develop asap. If replenishing, should I then use say half the prescribed 70-80ml of fresh stock solution to avoid that the replenished one becomes too "concentrated"?
Peter

 

[markbarendt]

For years I've used Xtol undiluted to my satisfaction. Your praise of replenishment is however tempting me - added sharpness and finer grain, better temperature latitude - this sounds promising.
My question : with 135 film I usually bulkload 10-15 frames ie. less than half a full lenght film, and then develop asap. If replenishing, should I then use say half the prescribed 70-80ml of fresh stock solution to avoid that the replenished one becomes too "concentrated"?
Peter

Yes, do the math on the square inches. Don't forget the leader.

 

[Ian Grant]

There is no evidence of added sharpness and finer grain. It's just people seeing what they want to see.

There's a very definite difference between an unseasoned "fresh" developer and a replenished developer once seasoned whether it's Xtol, D76/ID-11 or any other replenished system, there's plenty of evidence out there.

Ian

 

[_T_]

I'm interested in seeing that evidence, as I'm going to start using x-tol soon and am considering replenishing it for exactly those benefits. Would you mind posting some links to the data?

 

[John Wiegerink]

I'm interested in seeing that evidence, as I'm going to start using x-tol soon and am considering replenishing it for exactly those benefits. Would you mind posting some links to the data?

I think Xtol is pretty darn sharp at 1+1 or 1+2. It's not that bad straight, but I'd call it more of a mellow-sharp compared to diluted. I'm not going say Xtol replenished is sharper than say, 1+2, but it's certainly not less sharp. The benefits of replenished for me have more to do with ease of use, tonal range and being able to use a large volume of developer in my Yankee 4X5 tank and not have to pour it down the drain. So, is it sharper? Try it yourself and see. You'll probably like it either way 'cause it's a darn good developer.

 

[Ian Grant]

I'm interested in seeing that evidence, as I'm going to start using x-tol soon and am considering replenishing it for exactly those benefits. Would you mind posting some links to the data?

The evidence is quite clear and you can see it easily for yourself, just compare negatives processed in fresh Full Strength developer to negatives shot on the same film and format once the replenished system has settled and seasoned. There's a noticeable increase in quality.

When I shared a replenished ID-11 (D76) deep tank line back in the late 1970's and early 80's with two other photographers no-one liked being the first to use a completely fresh batch of developer we all preferred it once a few batches of film had been processed, it's the same with replenished Xtol.

Ian

 

[Chris Livsey]

we all preferred it once a few batches of film had been processed, it's the same with replenished Xtol.
Ian

You were in good company:
Eamonn McCabe writes:
Jane hated fresh chemicals. I often went in on a Tuesday to discover the developer in my tank had gone down. She would let me use it fresh, which was good for sports photography, and then, after a few weeks, when I was about to throw it away, when it was all brown and oxidised and you wouldn’t even put your hand in it, let alone your precious films, she would take it over.
Jane Hope Bown, photographer, born 13 March 1925; died 21 December 2014
https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2014/dec/21/jane-bown

Henri Cartier-Bresson by Jane Bown

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

Xtol really is a genius developer for a replenishment regime.

1. You use stock solution as replenisher, which means if you want to use it diluted, you can do that also.
2. It doesn't go bad with time, like so many other developers. If you maintain the working solution, you never have to start over. It just keeps working, perpetually. My working solution was the same for about five years. Never skipped a beat.
3. It is very robust! I couldn't even kill it by not processing film for six months. I added some fresh replenishing solution, two rolls worth, and off I went again with perfect results.
4. You do not need a very large volume of film developed to maintain a stable process.
5. The results are wonderful, and you notice the increased sharpness when printing larger prints from 35mm negatives.

The only downside is that you lose a wee bit of film speed compared to diluted 1+1. No big deal.

 

[Ian Grant]

Well put Thomas, that exactly mirrors my experiences with Xtol.

Ian

 

[Gerald C Koch]

As with some many things in photography it eventually comes down to preference. I personally like the consistency of one-shots. There is nothing more annoying than a bunch of negatives that are more or less contrasty than usual. If that means sacrificing finer grain then that is fine with me. Embrace the grain.

 

[Ian Grant]

35+ years of using replenished developers has always given me excellent consistency, the sacrifices are made using a developer like ID-11/D76, Xtol etc with one-shot development.

Ian

 

[markbarendt]

I'm more inconsistent than my developer.