Tri-X and Xtol

[baachitraka]

Wine bags/saft beutel to keep air tight.

 

[bdial]

I found a 5L plastic refrigerator jug that I use for mixing, the oblong shape makes it a little easier to store than a bucket in my space constrained darkroom. I store mixed stock solution in a combination of glass and plastic bottles. So far, I've had no problems with longevity.

 

[removed account4]

i get my mixing containers at home despot ( homer bucket 5 gallon )
or the dollar store has a nested set of tubs for a few dollars.
don't forget to mix it with distilled water, if you have iron in your water
or it isn't "pure" you might get off results with xtol.
regarding 1L bags and extreme dilutions-
when xtol originally came out they used to
have a data booklet that came with it that had
all sorts of dilutions and times in it. they had trouble with
people diluting it too much (as they recommended ) and the developer died on them
( you can google xtol sudden death syndrome ). the 1L bags they got rid of too
because of sudden death ( i think ? )
1 gallon of developer is simple to develop through.
have fun !

 

[Kawaiithulhu]

I like the way Xtol holds the rated film speed better than common alternatives, so even at my slow usage rate I'll eat 5L quantities for that.

Additional lessons about Xtol that I've learned:

Oxygen and Iron are your enemy.

Always use distilled water. Tap water will always be inconsistent and I'm leery of those aeration faucets that must add a ton of excess oxygen.

Only use warm water to mix, at the temperature suggested on the package, going hot and thinking that it will mix faster will also accelerate reactions in the soup even before it gets into the bottles. Stir gently, you don't want to get all crazy like a blender and drag even more oxygen into the mix.

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

I like the way Xtol holds the rated film speed better than common alternatives, so even at my slow usage rate I'll eat 5L quantities for that.

Additional lessons about Xtol that I've learned:

Oxygen and Iron are your enemy.

Always use distilled water. Tap water will always be inconsistent and I'm leery of those aeration faucets that must add a ton of excess oxygen.

Only use warm water to mix, at the temperature suggested on the package, going hot and thinking that it will mix faster will also accelerate reactions in the soup even before it gets into the bottles. Stir gently, you don't want to get all crazy like a blender and drag even more oxygen into the mix.

About the distilled water... I think I've read more issues with distilled water causing harm with mixing developers than tap water has, probably due to pH issues. Distilled water is supposed to be pH7, dead neutral, but that doesn't always seem to be the case. The best thing to do, no matter what water you use, is to boil it before using it, and bringing it down to temperature.

jnanian is correct above in that iron deposits in the water is what seems to kill Xtol. I believe that can easily be tested for.

 

[bergytone]

I'm a recent convert to Xtol. I agree with some of the others, it's magic when used stock with FP4 or Kentmere film. I'm giving up on D76 and Ilfosol3 when they are used up; I'll be using Xtol and HC110 only. I mixed up a batch last summer and it's kept fine with the marbles tossed in to keep the air out. I just mixed another batch in a hardware store bucket and now I use it only as stock and not diluted. That way you'll use it up quicker. You can develop about 18 rolls of 35mm with the 5L batch when used stock, and that works out to $.40 per roll. Sounds like a deal to me!

 

[Kawaiithulhu]

now I use it only as stock and not diluted

What difference in your negatives have you noticed after going stock instead of 1:1? I should google that, but in theory wouldn't the faster highlight action leave less time for the shadows to get as much time as they need?

 

[baachitraka]

Is there any staining developer that don't loose speed?

 

[MattKing]

You can mix it up in a 4 litre/ 1 US gallon container. So a well rinsed milk jug will work.

Then you just need to split that 4 litres into five 1 litre containers - 800 ml in each - and then add water to each to bring the total volume in each to 1 litre.

 

[ColColt]

I've always used distilled water to mix developers and Photoflo. Everything else just tap water. Most powder developers dissolve into solution best around 90 degrees or so. I assume Xtol is the same without actually seeing their instructions.

I'm a little amazed Freestyle don't offer glass bottles...only plastic. B&H is where I've gotten the brown glass bottles.

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

What difference in your negatives have you noticed after going stock instead of 1:1? I should google that, but in theory wouldn't the faster highlight action leave less time for the shadows to get as much time as they need?

That is correct. The developer has more solvent action stock, so you get a slightly finer grain, but also less sharp. Since you use a shorter developing time with more concentrated developer, you end up with a more abrupt toe, and a straighter line up to the highlights where you run a higher risk of blocking up due to the activity.
It depends on what you want or are after. The differences are not that large anyway, both methods produce very good results. The 1:1 solution is your best friend when shooting in high contrast.

 

[MattKing]

And using stock X-Tol in a replenishment regime is even better .

 

[JohnArs]

XTOL is good for at least one year in fully glas bottles and in darkness and cool basement!

 

[MattKing]

Re XTOL replenished, I don't know where the idea comes from that it is superior to 1+1 (or stock) but I highly doubt that is the case.

For us devotees of the church of developer replenishment, that may be sacrilege .

Part of my preference is definitely due to my preference for the workflow. In my temperate clime, I'm always working at room temperature, it is easy to use, the slight restraining effect of the process helps nearly guarantee easily printable highlights, there is no longer any concern about using a full tank for a small amount of film and it is incredibly economical.

 

[ColColt]

Looking at Kodak's instruction sheet they do offer 1 liter packages, catalogue No. 8590176 but, I still haven't seen it.

 

[MattKing]

Looking at Kodak's instruction sheet they do offer 1 liter packages, catalogue No. 8590176 but, I still haven't seen it.

That must be the original data sheet - 1 litre hasn't been available for years.

 

[ColColt]

Could be. I just googled Xtol developer and it came up.

 

[ritternathan]

To mix 5L, I use a large plastic bucket that once had laundry detergent in it. Just avoid metal things when mixing it. As for staining developers that do not loose speed, the best one I have tried and used is Pyrocat-HD or -MC 1:1:100, though these still loose somewhere of 1/4 of a stop compared to Xtol, this is according to tests done by Sandy King. That said, I still prefer the look of indoor shots developed in Xtol (both 100 and 400/greater) and not in any pyro/catechol dev. Nothing that I have used can beat Xtol 1+2 or 1+3 for speed when you need shadow detail. The photographer's formulary also has glass boston rounds, as well as Amazon. I save my old 500ml vinegar bottles and reuse them for storing developer. YMMV

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

If people have had any issues with distilled water, it would have nothing to do with pH. It would have to be because it isn't truly distilled/deionized and contains some iron/copper. Even so, XTOL contains a sequestering agent to deal with this so your water has to be really bad for it to accelerate the normal oxidation process.

Re water pH, it doesn't matter. Water has no buffering capacity so regardless of whether its pH is in the 5s (it can go that low simply from exposure to air) or the 8s (tap and bottled drinking waters are often weakly alkaline), once you add the developer mix it totally overwhelms whatever pH the water was.

Thanks for the clarification, Michael. I trust your knowledge of photochemistry over mine any day of the week. I just use the stuff and observe what happens.

The fact remains that I see people go on about buying bottled distilled water at the store to mix their film developer with, and end up with headaches of only faintly developed negatives. Makes you wonder what's in those bottles, and what the definition is for 'distilled water' to legally sell it as such.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I have always used tap water in Los Angeles for years now without any problems. Los Angeles water is considered hard.

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

I have always used tap water in Los Angeles for years now without any problems. Los Angeles water is considered hard.

I've lived in three different locations in Minnesota now, and the tap water was perfectly fine in all three locations. There are cases of people who have had real issues with mixing Xtol with tap water, so I wouldn't make a blanket statement that tap water will always be OK. It's obviously good to test first.

 

[Sirius Glass]

XTOL sudden death is a thing of the distant past caused by a packaging problem. It has not occurred in years.

 

[Sirius Glass]

And using stock X-Tol in a replenishment regime is even better .

+1

 

[Kawaiithulhu]

staining developer that don't loose speed

Pyrocat-HD tests out well in that regard, plus it's continuous agitation Jobo/btzs tubes friendly without oxidizing itself to death if you work that way.

 

[ColColt]

I decided to give it a try and ordered 5L from B&H Photo along with some extra brown bottles. I thought I had enough of those but yo never know when they may be needed. Look to try this first 1:1 with Tri-X
as the times for using it straight look pretty short at 75 degrees...my usual temperature.