TMAX400 120 watermark defect - current status?

[Ed TLR]

I found the problem on a roll of T-Max 400 I developed, then came on here to research it. Thanks to the info in this thread, I found that I had two boxes that fell within the problem batch numbers. I emailed KodakAlaris last Thursday with a sample image showing the problem, as well as photos of the boxes with the batch numbers. Mr. Mooney replied within two days and shipped replacement film that arrives tomorrow. That's pretty great service in my book.

 

[mshchem]

Did you get emulsion numbers outside these ranges?

Kodak T-Max 400
Emulsion 0148 004 through 0152

Kodak T-Max 100
Emulsion 0961 through 0981

Kodak Tri-X
Emulsion 0871 though 0931

My two pro packs are 0154 001, expiration date 09/2018

 

[MattKing]

My two pro packs are 0154 001, expiration date 09/2018

So they are more recent, and therefore have the very newest, revised backing paper.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I found the problem on a roll of T-Max 400 I developed, then came on here to research it. Thanks to the info in this thread, I found that I had two boxes that fell within the problem batch numbers. I emailed KodakAlaris last Thursday with a sample image showing the problem, as well as photos of the boxes with the batch numbers. Mr. Mooney replied within two days and shipped replacement film that arrives tomorrow. That's pretty great service in my book.

Welcome to APUG

 

[Ed TLR]

Welcome to APUG

Thank you! I've been shooting some Yashica and Rolleiflex TLRs for the past year and am quite happy to be back into film. I hadn't done any analog developing since the 1980s when I was in college. Happy to be on APUG!

 

[mshchem]

The backing paper on 0154 001 expr. 09/2018 has no black borders at all (Bottom) The 0148 004 expr. 06/2016 is at the top. No issues with either roll. The 2016 roll has been in a fridge last year and a half. I get all my film from B&H usually order in the winter. Can't help but think that heat is a big part of the issue. Looks like Kodak really reduced the ink level on the new stuff. I think they still have some serious talent, probably an over zealous Purchasing decision (say's an Engineer Mike

 

[DWThomas]

(Hmm - going to be interesting to see how those numbers line up with my red window cameras!)

Anyway, another data point -- I last week discovered my last three purchased ProPacs of 400TX (one 921 & two 931s) were within the listed emulsion numbers. I contacted Mr. Mooney, who reported he considered the likelihood of a problem with the 931 batch very low, as complaints on that have been very rare. He suggested I try a roll on something non-critical -- BUT -- he also sent me replacements which arrived at my door this AM (about 5 days total). So I take some comfort that the perhaps shakey Great Yellow Father at least appears to be making a sincere effort to stay in the good graces of its customers. I had stocked up a bit for a trip in May that ended up not happening -- mayhaps it's just as well!

 

[R.Gould]

The backing paper on 0154 001 expr. 09/2018 has no black borders at all (Bottom) The 0148 004 expr. 06/2016 is at the top. No issues with either roll. The 2016 roll has been in a fridge last year and a half. I get all my film from B&H usually order in the winter. Can't help but think that heat is a big part of the issue. Looks like Kodak really reduced the ink level on the new stuff. I think they still have some serious talent, probably an over zealous Purchasing decision (say's an Engineer MikeView attachment 158538

The new printing looks very similar to Ilford's, so it should be usable,just, in red windows, with the greatest of care, in all fairness to Kodak Alaris they seem to be doing everything in their power to sort this mess out, so I just might give their films another go

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

The new printing looks very similar to Ilford's, so it should be usable,just, in red windows, with the greatest of care, in all fairness to Kodak Alaris they seem to be doing everything in their power to sort this mess out, so I just might give their films another go

I think they are doing what they can, and I would also consider that they might not have the resources to do a full blown recall.

I've been trying to support Kodak with my limited means by purchasing some of their 35mm film, and some color 120 Ektar film. Those have been trouble free, as I expected them to be, and it's generating a little bit of income for them in this trying time.

 

[Sal Santamaura]

Discussion today in another thread reminded me of Ken's sudden and total disappearance from APUG. I also remembered sending him a PM last August to inquire about his well being. No reply. Therefore, if anyone knows what happened to Ken and/or how to get in touch with him, please advise. Despite not being a drinker, my answer to his question in post #113

Damn Sal...Can I buy you a beer??...

would now be "sure, why not." Thanks in advance.

 

[Ai Print]

Discussion today in another thread reminded me of Ken's sudden and total disappearance from APUG. I also remembered sending him a PM last August to inquire about his well being. No reply. Therefore, if anyone knows what happened to Ken and/or how to get in touch with him, please advise. Despite not being a drinker, my answer to his question in post #113would now be "sure, why not." Thanks in advance.

Yeah, it is a curious thing, he knew his stuff but poof! He's nowhere to be found....

 

[RattyMouse]

Yeah, it is a curious thing, he knew his stuff but poof! He's nowhere to be found....

Roger Cole is also missing. 7 months since his last post.

 

[StoneNYC]

I'll email Ken.

 

[lensmagic]

Michael,
My question to and answer like that is, "Why now"? I'm sure heat has reached many rolls of Tmax 400 / TMY2 before this. Why didn't we hear of this problem before? Like two, three, four or more years ago if it doesn't have something to do with a manufacturing change???? No, I believe the problem is on Kodak's end and not the consumers end. I just wish Kodak would say whether or not they have the problem solve. I have not bought a Kodak product since this issue was announced and won't until I know it's solved. I hear people on this forum tell other folks who buy cheap film not to waste their time and money on inferior products 'cause their pictures are to valuable. Well, that sure seems to fit here, but Kodak ain't cheap. Ilford and Ultrafine Xtreme until then for me. John W

Bravo and well-said. Ilford for me. Why doesn't Kodak come forward and say what the problem was and what they did to fix it? Kodak was once one of the Dow Jones Industrials! Their once-praised quality control has stumbled and died.

 

[John Wiegerink]

Bravo and well-said. Ilford for me. Why doesn't Kodak come forward and say what the problem was and what they did to fix it? Kodak was once one of the Dow Jones Industrials! Their once-praised quality control has stumbled and died.

I do have to admit I bought some Xtol developer recently. Oh, and I love that developer. It seems it works very well with the Ilford Delta 100, HP5+, FP4+, PanF+. How do I know? Cause there ain't no damn numbers showing up on my negatives. I do agree with you that as a service to all Kodak consumers and possible consumers they(Kodak) should report on the problem as to whether it's fixed or not and what they(Kodak) discovered to be the problem to begin with. I've lost confidence in a company that can't communicate with the very people that are trying to keep it afloat. Ilford is actually working out extremely well for me at the present and I really thought I might not like it as much as Kodak. Unfortunately for Kodak Alaris other folks might be finding out the same thing?????

 

[StoneNYC]

Bravo and well-said. Ilford for me. Why doesn't Kodak come forward and say what the problem was and what they did to fix it? Kodak was once one of the Dow Jones Industrials! Their once-praised quality control has stumbled and died.

They did, there's even a picture of the delivery truck somewhere that was left out in the sun. There's a whole article on what happened somewhere.

 

[John Wiegerink]

They did, there's even a picture of the delivery truck somewhere that was left out in the sun. There's a whole article on what happened somewhere.

Sorry Stone, I'm not buying the delivery truck story. I guess that truck delivered all over the USA and then drove across either the Atlantic or Pacific Ocean to make it's delivery in China???? I still say it's a ink/paper problem that might be induced by heat. We've had heat problems ever since the Sun was invented.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I do have to admit I bought some Xtol developer recently. Oh, and I love that developer. It seems it works very well with the Ilford Delta 100, HP5+, FP4+, PanF+. How do I know? Cause there ain't no damn numbers showing up on my negatives. I do agree with you that as a service to all Kodak consumers and possible consumers they(Kodak) should report on the problem as to whether it's fixed or not and what they(Kodak) discovered to be the problem to begin with. I've lost confidence in a company that can't communicate with the very people that are trying to keep it afloat. Ilford is actually working out extremely well for me at the present and I really thought I might not like it as much as Kodak. Unfortunately for Kodak Alaris other folks might be finding out the same thing?????

It is not just Kodak. Ilford has had the same problem with its 120 film. Harman posted about it on APUG. There is only one supplier of the paper for 120 film and they print the numbers on the paper. So if you are going to loose confidence in Kodak for this problem, then also lose confidence in Ilford and Fuji.

 

[John Wiegerink]

It is not just Kodak. Ilford has had the same problem with its 120 film. Harman posted about it on APUG. There is only one supplier of the paper for 120 film and they print the numbers on the paper. So if you are going to loose confidence in Kodak for this problem, then also lose confidence in Ilford and Fuji.

Yes Sirius, I remember that and Simon's diligent work. That problem, whatever it was for sure, seemed to taken care of very fast. Kodak did a real shltty job of beating around the bush on reporting progress or even what the real cause was and as far as I know they really still haven't. Yes, they said heat was the cause and it's the reason I get a little PO'd when I here that excuse. I say "heat" and what else? Most folks know it's not just heat and humidity that's doing it. It's those two things and some "bean counter" trying to save money that's probably the other half of the problem. Maybe the whole problem? As far as confidence goes? I'm sorry, but right now I have more with Ilford. Hmm, I don't remember seeing some silly picture of a Ilford/Harman truck parked in the sun anywhere? Now, I will admit that I sure do miss Simon, but that's the way it goes in the big corporate world I guess.

 

[lensmagic]

It is not just Kodak. Ilford has had the same problem with its 120 film. Harman posted about it on APUG. There is only one supplier of the paper for 120 film and they print the numbers on the paper. So if you are going to loose confidence in Kodak for this problem, then also lose confidence in Ilford and Fuji.

Mr. Glass, you overlook this important distinction (posted above on March 31, 2016):
But unlike the Kodak situation, a little cropping can fix the HP5+ problem, the same cannot be said of the Tmax400 problem.
Ilford, and in particular Simon Galley, dialog on this website with other APUG members. Those Brits are a brave lot! I've not read a peep from Alaris, or whoever they are now. They prefer to hide behind a nice guy facade.

 

[RattyMouse]

So if you are going to loose confidence in Kodak for this problem, then also lose confidence in Ilford and Fuji.

The day that I lose images from 7 batches of bad Fuji film, then I will lose confidence in them. That day hasnt happened yet. Not even once.

 

[removed account4]

it was posted here on apug september 8, 2015
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)
that there was a problem with the film, that is 1 year and 4 months ago .. and from what i recall
similar problems had been talked about other places before it made it here ...
what i find surprising is that there is film that is bad, and "still in the pipeline"
that KA/EK hasn't gotten back from companies selling it ? and their campaign to get the bad film back
not only took so long to implement, but hasn't been broadcast loud and clear, maybe i have missed the PR campaign
because i don't shoot 120 film, and i am not on FB?
earlier in this thread PE mentioned that if consumers bought the bad film, shame on them, they didn't do their homework ( unless i misunderstood what he said ? )
i don't think at this point it is the consumer's responsibility to check batch and lot numbers of all the film they but
but the distributers and stores that are selling (bad-)product. it's like a car dealership selling cars that have had their breaks recalled
without upgrading the breaks, and then suggesting it is the end customer's fault for buying the car wtih bad breaks because
they should have known they were recalled ... i think they used to call that passing the buck ...

 

[Ai Print]

The day that I lose images from 7 batches of bad Fuji film, then I will lose confidence in them. That day hasnt happened yet. Not even once.

I lost images from 5 batches and had 155 rolls replaced. Done deal, all good, lock and load....

 

[lensmagic]

Yes Sirius, I remember that and Simon's diligent work. That problem, whatever it was for sure, seemed to taken care of very fast. Kodak did a real shltty job of beating around the bush on reporting progress or even what the real cause was and as far as I know they really still haven't. Yes, they said heat was the cause and it's the reason I get a little PO'd when I here that excuse. I say "heat" and what else? Most folks know it's not just heat and humidity that's doing it. It's those two things and some "bean counter" trying to save money that's probably the other half of the problem. Maybe the whole problem? As far as confidence goes? I'm sorry, but right now I have more with Ilford. Hmm, I don't remember seeing some silly picture of a Ilford/Harman truck parked in the sun anywhere? Now, I will admit that I sure do miss Simon, but that's the way it goes in the big corporate world I guess.

Whither went Simon?

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

Whither went Simon?

Harman Technologies, and with it Ilford, was sold by the previous executive team. When that happened, Simon Galley retired from that business, so he no longer represents Ilford. I think he may be on here as a regular member now, though.