Thinking about which MF to get -- looking for additional discussion!

[-persimmon-tree-]

Hello!

First of all, I want to say I love this forum and the wisdom provided here -- I've been posting a decent amount of questions and was always helped substantially.

I bought a Pentax 67 as my first entry into serious MF (I've used a Holga before). The winding mechanism almost immediately broke, and the seller agreed to take it back for a full refund. I'm now wanting to do more research about which camera I should get. I've always really liked the look of the Pentax 67, and went for it on sort of an impulse, but I want to make sure to explore my options in more detail.

I mostly take 35mm and am interested in half frame for everyday photography. I want to use MF for more planned out, slow photos. I'd like to be able to carry it around in a backpack and ideally go on some short hikes, but I'm not going to be carrying it on crazy 10 mile hikes, doing street photography, or carrying it around for very long periods of time. It will mostly be used for street and nature scenes and portraits. I also don't need ultra super mega high definition sharpness. More sharpness is better, but I'm not going to be making gigantic massive prints of everything I take. I am just a hobbyist and am fine with very mild concessions in quality that you can only witness when looking at things ultra close up, for a lower cost. I expect to shoot almost entirely on a tripod.

I'm interested in 6x7 SLR ideally, but one rangefinder is also here. The camera is unlikely to get heavy use. I may shoot 4 rolls a month, on a heavy month.

I don't want to spend more than $1,000 on everything I need to get shooting (body, lens, finder, etc).

Current options I'm considering:

Pentax 67 MLU
Pros: I like the look and workflow on the one I used, good array of lenses, seems fairly available
Cons: seems prone to breaking (may just be my experience), cost

Mamiya RB67
Pros: modularity, availability, all mechanical which I like
Cons: Have heard that it is also prone to breaking randomly and suddenly, but not sure how accurate this is. Size seems inconvenient but not that big of a deal for my usage.

Fuji GX680
Pros: Really cool modularity and options, lens movements are interesting to me, I kind of like that it's a bit insane, cost is good
Cons: lots of electronics which seem hard to replace and prone to breaking at their age, gigantic size

Bronica GS-1
Pros: cost is good, I like the modular options and handles and such
Cons: from what I've researched, it's harder to find a version in really good condition because fewer were made. Build quality seems somewhat lower than rb67

Fujica GM670​

Pros: lower cost, seems really easy to use, all mechanical and I haven't heard anything about them failing or being very difficult/expensive to repair
Cons: rangefinder rather than SLR. I don't like this as much for framing. Also, the fact that it is a smaller and lighter camera is weirdly a slight con for me. I like being forced into a very very slow workflow, but I realize this is a bit of a silly "con".

I am open to also trying out an even cheaper 6x6, maybe a cheap TLR, and then continuing to wait and save up. Not that interested in Hasselblad. Would consider other options like the Kiev 60, but doesn't seem to have any distinct benefits.

Any insights here are much appreciated. I am continuing to do more research, but every time I've posted here, I always heard something new! Thanks.

 

[Dan Daniel]

Look at Bronica SQ. Simple enough to draw the 6x7 lines on the screen. Heck, the ETR series are also good cameras. More were made than the GS. Easier to find. Last I looked, probably still cheap enough to consider a throw-away compared to other large SLRs, but I could be wrong. Get the grip and prism for the SQ or ETR and you have close to a Pentax eye-level SLR.

Medium format is a series of options. Unlike 35mm where cameras settled into a few basic form factors and such, medium format led to all sorts of cameras. The nice thing about lower cost cameras like the Bronica stuff is that you'll get your feet wet, you'll get to see if the tonal quality of medium format really works for you, and you can 'upgrade' internally (more Bronica stuff) or externally (different form, etc.).

 

[abruzzi]

I love my GS-1, and will eventually be selling my P67 sine I rarely use it. I like that the GS-1 is relatively small for a 6x7.

This probably isn’t what you want, but also consider the Horseman VH-R. It’s a rangefinder/view camera. It’s fairly usable handheld, and cheap overall.

 

[Nicholas Lindan]

It seems reliability is uppermost on your mind. Maybe that is just because your Pentax went belly-up as soon as you got it.

If you are looking for reliability/availability then that pretty much says 'Blad. Service is easy to find, as are all the lenses and accessories your heart could desire. Of course, in Bulgaria the situation may be different.

 

[Paul Howell]

I would think about a Mamiya 6.45 system, although not 6x7 with modern film a 6X4.5 will enlarge well up to 16X20, large selection of lens. Lighter, more hand holdable, the last generation body has interchanable backs. 15 frames per roll. I have 6X6 and a Mamiya Universal, although I like the 6X9 negative, and as I print 8X10 I lose some of the 6X6 negative the 645 system as some advantages. You can get a nice starter kit for $1000.

 

[-persimmon-tree-]

I love my GS-1, and will eventually be selling my P67 sine I rarely use it. I like that the GS-1 is relatively small for a 6x7.

This probably isn’t what you want, but also consider the Horseman VH-R. It’s a rangefinder/view camera. It’s fairly usable handheld, and cheap overall.

The Horseman is definitely something to consider. Using a view camera sounds really fun to me, and because I'm taking really slow photos that I"ve scouted in advance, the form factor is alright. Adding it to my list!

 

[-persimmon-tree-]

It seems reliability is uppermost on your mind. Maybe that is just because your Pentax went belly-up as soon as you got it.

If you are looking for reliability/availability then that pretty much says 'Blad. Service is easy to find, as are all the lenses and accessories your heart could desire. Of course, in Bulgaria the situation may be different.

I need to change my location away from Bulgaria! I don't live there anymore, I'm on the west coast of the USA. I am considering Hasselblad, but it is out of my current budget. Will still investigate

 

[-persimmon-tree-]

I would think about a Mamiya 6.45 system, although not 6x7 with modern film a 6X4.5 will enlarge well up to 16X20, large selection of lens. Lighter, more hand holdable, the last generation body has interchanable backs. 15 frames per roll. I have 6X6 and a Mamiya Universal, although I like the 6X9 negative, and as I print 8X10 I lose some of the 6X6 negative the 645 system as some advantages. You can get a nice starter kit for $1000.

Wasn't considering 6x4.5 because of the lower resolution, but realistically it probably doesn't matter *that* much for my applications. I am gonna investigate further, thank you!

 

[jeffreyg]

I started with a Bronica S2A maybe 50 years ago purchased new from the military exchange because it was a one time very good deal. It wasn’t a Hasselblad but the price was right. The lenses were very good and I never had a problem. Sold it nineteen years later for what I had originally paid. I moved to Hasselblad but the negatives from the Bronica stack up to the Hasselblad very well. So if you want to keep the cost down don’t rule out a Bronica if you can find one in excellent condition. The only complaint I had was that it was noisy.

 

[abruzzi]

The Horseman is definitely something to consider. Using a view camera sounds really fun to me, and because I'm taking really slow photos that I"ve scouted in advance, the form factor is alright. Adding it to my list!

just be aware that when you buy a lens, it has the proper focusing cam included, otherwise the range finder wont work. Also, if interested, look for a VH-R with the rubber tubes on the viewfinder and rangefinder windows. They make it easier to use with the roll film back in place.

 

[Chuck1]

For the horseman The revolving back allows quick work, with non wide lenses, beware of the older style cable release connection they can be hard to find and pricey.

 

[MattKing]

I need to change my location away from Bulgaria! I don't live there anymore, I'm on the west coast of the USA

Yes - you do!
And its easy to do.

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

I've bounced around quite a bit on different medium format cameras. The absolute best I've experienced, IMHO, is the Rolleiflex. I have two 2.8E bodies and a Tele. All did need servicing, but once serviced, they have been unfailing. Unless I end up hard up for cash, the Rolleis will stay in my stable forever.

I used to have a Hasselblad setup, and made some great images with it, but I went through a phase where I was not using it and sold it off to pay for some large format gear. The hassy stuff was great when it was working, but very expensive to acquire, and when it needed servicing, it was also similarly expensive.

I went through an RB system, which was nice, but quirky and heavy. Switched to an RZ for specific lenses, but had a run of bad luck with reliability of the bodies. Sold all of that off, and switched to a Pentax 67. I've had reliability issues with the Pentax 67 as well (I have four bodies, two of which are bookends at the moment - they may or may not be repairable). Why I'm sticking with the Pentax as a 6x7 camera is the array of lenses available, all but a few of which are extremely affordable. I also like the aesthetics and the ergonomics of the camera.

Some other medium format stuff I have includes:

• a Kodak Chevron (the successor to the Medalist, with similar aesthetics, but a 6x6 aspect ratio rather than 6x9. Rangefinder focusing, which I don't gel with well on many cameras but it clicks for me on this one. It's quirky and funky, and I like quirky and funky.
• Lomo Belair 6x12 - I did a huge documentary project with this camera, and will always keep one around for the utility of it. 6x6,6x9, and 6x12 frame options (with inserts to the film gate), aperture preferred auto exposure, and available optional Russian glass lenses (which I picked up when they were still circulating)
• Lomo LCA 120 - a 120 version of the LCA that like the Belair is auto exposure, although even simpler than the Belair - it is fully automatic, and you don't know what shutter speed or aperture it's using, but this is not a real problem because it's the equivalent of a 21mm lens on 35, so unless you goof up and have the wrong focusing range selected (you focus with a choice of four different ranges) the depth of field of the lens will carry the day. It's a poor man's Hasselblad Superwide - same field of view, 1/4 the price.
• Holga Pan 6x12 - it produces a bigger 6x12 negative than the Belair, but since it's a Holga, you've got two shutter speeds and two apertures.
• plain old Holga - 'nuff said.

I don't own, but have shot with one of the Fuji rangefinders. I didn't like it - it just didn't work for me. I specifically didn't like the sound of the shutter and the fact that if you wanted to do long time exposures, you had to turn the shutter dial off of B to close the shutter. I do a fair bit of night photography and having something that made night photography harder rather than easier was a deal breaker.

The Fuji GX680, as you noted, has some fantastic glass for it, but the first generation GX batteries are no longer available - you might be able to get someone to rebuild one for you, but it's hit or miss. They're also a gigantic brick of a camera - the only place you're using it is on a tripod, most likely only in a studio. And they are 100% battery dependent - no juice, no camera.

 

[MattKing]

And I should probably add my 2 cents.
I have two main medium format cameras, and I used to have three.
Mamiya 645 Pro SLR - for 6x4.5.
Mamiya C330 TLR - for 6x6.
And the one that I sold a couple of years ago, a Mamiya RB67 Pro-S SLR - for 6x7.
The two SLRs can provide an amazing amount of flexibility. The TLR is very flexible as well.
All three are quite reliable - I've had and used my C330 since I started using it for weddings in the 1970s.
The RB67 is the least portable.
Depending on how you kit things out, the C330 may or may not be more or less portable than the 645.
I also have four MF folding cameras - one that just dropped into my hands on Saturday, and another fixed lens post WWII Japanese 6x6 TLR, that also arrived on Saturday. One of the folders, and most likely the fixed lens TLR, are probably not going to be around for long.
I'm left handed, and have limited dexterity in my right hand. All of my longer term cameras suit me very well. I've worked with or tried out or handled other cameras that are awkward for me to use. Ergonomics are important!

 

[DREW WILEY]

P67's are famous for their reliability. Yes, my shutter cock finally failed - but after 45 years of hard use in all kinds of weather, including the camera being dropped three times on hard surfaces! In general, they seem MORE reliable than Hassies. Maybe the one you bought had some undisclosed prior abuse.

Still sticking to my personal experience : If you want a lightweight 645, 6x6, 6X7, 6X8, or 6X9 rangefinder, look at Fuji. There's a parallel recent thread on the GW series. I have both a GW90ii and GW690iii, both with fixed 90mm lens, and love them. You can find ones is excellent condition well within your budget. There are lots of them for sale by Japanese vendors.

I have a friend who bought into the Mamiya 645 SLR series. They're affordable, lightweight, and well made, but with a somewhat too small a negative for me, and don't handhold as well as Fuji RF's.

 

[ChrisGalway]

I know you said you prefer 6x7 SLR, but you can get a nice Rolleicord/Rolleiflex or Mamiya C330 for a reasonably cost, and at least they have the reflex finder. The Rollei's can be lighter than those monster 6x7 SLRs as well.

 

[bags27]

I know you said you prefer 6x7 SLR, but you can get a nice Rolleicord/Rolleiflex or Mamiya C330 for a reasonably cost, and at least they have the reflex finder. The Rollei's can be lighter than those monster 6x7 SLRs as well.

+1. I was going to suggest looking for a late Rolleicord (like the fantastic V(b)ii). It's as sharp as a Rolleiflex f/3.5F, a lot cheaper and smaller. A great all-round 6x6 camera that you can easily convert to 6x4.5 if you want.

 

[ChrisGalway]

+1. I was going to suggest looking for a late Rolleicord (like the fantastic V(b)ii). It's as sharp as a Rolleiflex f/3.5F, a lot cheaper and smaller. A great all-round 6x6 camera that you can easily convert to 6x4.5 if you want.

Yes, that Rolleicord would be my first choice, and not an expensive outlay in the event that you did not get on well with it. (I have two twinned on a stereo rig!)

 

[OAPOli]

Don't give up on the P67, it's an excellent camera. There is a kit for sale on the classifieds here.

You could also consider the Koni-Omega as a 6x7 RF. It's inexpensive and produces quality pictures, but is almost as heavy as the P67.

 

[MFstooges]

With Fuji GX and Mamiya RB you're pretty much bound to a tripod.
The Pentax 6X7 and Fuji GM670 will still allow you to take a handheld shot.

 

[MattKing]

I used an RB67 reasonably regularly without a tripod.
And I'm not the only one (actually an RZ67)!

But I wouldn't have wanted to try a Fuji GX!

 

[Paul Howell]

If a rangefinder is under consideration the Konica Rapid is a great cameras with great lens, only issues is the rachat style advance, it is pull push that gives the Rapid its name, advances the film and cocks the shutter. The rachat is prone to wear and tear, after 50s years will not be repairable. Other option is a Mamiya Press or Universal, with 6X7 back. I have used a Universal for over 30s years, I have both the 6X7 and 6X9 backs, 4 lenses, and the grip. I shoot a couple of rolls with it yesterday, as I am getting older it gets heavier and heavier. Another advantage of the 645 system, so much lighter.

 

[Hassasin]

For reliability it is most certainly NOT Hasselblad. BLAD is reliable if you milk it at every point of its life, and splurge on regular servicing no other MF requires ( I don’t know about Rollie 66)

RB67 would certainly be it though. There is almost nothing inside that can break. But it can be awkward as it is rather big and boxy at that due to great rotating back adding bulk to design.

GS1 is good, and even excellent, but has hidden problem when electromagnet goes south, than it is pretty much kaput for good. Here only buy latest body with all black buttons, with return guarantee. Start of trouble is when some lenses won’t fire any more, sometimes it might be only one, then it will only get worse.

I’m warming up to P67. There is something different to its feel vs. everything else in this segment. Not everyone would agree, but like everything else, it is subjective and very personal.

 

[MFstooges]

I used an RB67 reasonably regularly without a tripod.
And I'm not the only one (actually an RZ67)!
View attachment 371476
But I wouldn't have wanted to try a Fuji GX!

RZ is 300 gr lighter but either way you must've been pumping iron on the side

 

[Marcelo Paniagua]

+1 on the ETR/ETRS serie. Is reasonably priced and really well build. Glass is amazin.

I think image quality may depend more on other factors, like film/developer that the size. Quite portable and a pleasure to use.


Also use the Horseman 980 both on tripod and handheld. Really nice camera and images.

For 6x7, GS1 or RB67 are hard to beat. I use the RB67 and it can be cumbersome, although I use it hadheld from time to time. Mamiya glass is amazing. You can throw in Mamiya Press for something unusual.


Best regards.