Thinking about which MF to get -- looking for additional discussion!

[-persimmon-tree-]

Now I'm also considering a Mamiya Press! Which I just found out about. I like quirky/weird systems and the image quality and changeable backs seem good. It's also very cheap compared to a lot of the other systems here. Because I'm just shooting as a hobby and don't need flash or ***the best*** on the market, it seems like it may be a good choice.

 

[-persimmon-tree-]

+1 on the ETR/ETRS serie. Is reasonably priced and really well build. Glass is amazin.

I think image quality may depend more on other factors, like film/developer that the size. Quite portable and a pleasure to use.


Also use the Horseman 980 both on tripod and handheld. Really nice camera and images.

For 6x7, GS1 or RB67 are hard to beat. I use the RB67 and it can be cumbersome, although I use it hadheld from time to time. Mamiya glass is amazing. You can throw in Mamiya Press for something unusual.


Best regards.

Have you used the Mamiya press yourself? Any insight you can give on it? Not a HUGE amount online but the price is affordable and for what I'm looking for (entry level MF with a decent negative size) it seems cool. Not an SLR, sadly, but I think I can live with that under the right circumstances

 

[Marcelo Paniagua]

Have you used the Mamiya press yourself? Any insight you can give on it? Not a HUGE amount online but the price is affordable and for what I'm looking for (entry level MF with a decent negative size) it seems cool. Not an SLR, sadly, but I think I can live with that under the right circumstances

Yeah. I used frequently. It is quirky for sure but fun. Got both the 6x9 and 6x7 backs so switch from those format often.

Using the grip make it quite easy to handle. Also, since some models have back movements/extension and viewfinder hood, you can shoot either closeups or use movements so everything is in focus.

A little bit heavy but not as much as the RB67.


Mamiya glass is first class.

 

[Marcelo Paniagua]

By the way, about the only issue I ever had is that the part where the grip cable attaches to the lens was often twisted when I put it on the bag, at one time the screwing part on the lens became lose. Repaired myself with plyer and some glue but something to keep in mind if you decide to go this route.

 

[mshchem]

Bronica ETRSi. Thumb winder, plain (no meter) prism. Kodak TMY-2, XTOL. Bam!

 

[Paul Howell]

Now I'm also considering a Mamiya Press! Which I just found out about. I like quirky/weird systems and the image quality and changeable backs seem good. It's also very cheap compared to a lot of the other systems here. Because I'm just shooting as a hobby and don't need flash or ***the best*** on the market, it seems like it may be a good choice.

As long are you are willing to lug it. The lens tend to be slow but sharp at working apertures. The Universal has built in frames for 100, 150 and 250, need an external viewfinder for the wides. Be careful about lens, Mamiya made a version for Polaroid but there are issues with swapping lens. There are two version of the 100, a 3.5 tessar style lens and 2.8 5 element design. I have the 3.5, which is collapsable so you need to make sure the lens is extended when shooting. I bought mine used, had been owned by a wedding photographer who traded it in for Hassey, the owner of the shop told me he regretted it, a lot of money for not much improvement in quality. I also have to press cameras in 2 1/4 by 3 /14, a Speed and a Bushman, these take sheet film, the Speed Graphic is made of wood, very light, I have a Topcon 101 Pro for it, this will be my hiking camera. I will keep the Universal when shooting close the car.

 

[bluechromis]

The OP may want to think about how much they want interchangeable lenses. Cameras with fixed lenses can sometimes be more compact. There was an interest in portraits. If one wants to do close-in portraits, one will need a system with a portrait-length lens to avoid facial distortions. Some, but not all, street photographers favor wide-angle lenses.

 

[mshchem]

Another $1000 solution that's awesome

Count 018【MINT in Case】Fuji Fujifilm GW680 III PRO Medium Format From JAPAN | eBay

There is no balsam separation. poor appearance. Appearance;. Appearance is beautiful. Front lens cap. Total Condition;. No problem in the view. Serial Number;.

www.ebay.com

 

[Marcelo Paniagua]

Bronica ETRSi. Thumb winder, plain (no meter) prism. Kodak TMY-2, XTOL. Bam!

Yep, it is like big SLR. Quite nice actually.

 

[bluechromis]

There could be a question about 6 x 6 format. Does one really like the square aspect ratio for prints? If not, one will be cropping the 6 X 6 images to a size that may not be much bigger than that of a 645 camera.

 

[Marcelo Paniagua]

By the way, 6x4.5 vs 6x9 is quite the negative difference (actually 2 1/4 x 3 1/4 here since I don't have 6x9 handy but almost same size).

 

[Paul Howell]

I tend to print 8X10 and 11X14, have not printed 6X20 in years, so a 6X6 is cropped to 645. The one advantage is that with 6X6 no fancy ball head, the camera needs little adjustment on a tripod and you crop both vertical and horizontal. Down side is that with 645 you need 15 frames rather tan 12 with 6X6 or 9 with 6X7. Another disadvantage of 645 is that the format is in portrait, vertical, need to turn the camera 90 degrees for most landscapes.

 

[Marcelo Paniagua]

I tend to print 8X10 and 11X14, have not printed 6X20 in years, so a 6X6 is cropped to 645. The one advantage is that with 6X6 no fancy ball head, the camera needs little adjustment on a tripod and you crop both vertical and horizontal. Down side is that with 645 you need 15 frames rather tan 12 with 6X6 or 9 with 6X7. Another disadvantage of 645 is that the format is in portrait, vertical, need to turn the camera 90 degrees for most landscapes.

Suggested kit by @mshchem (ETRS with grip and viewfinder) does very well changing from landscape to portrait format, real natural. Mamiya M645, although a great camera didn't feel that natural when using as portrait.

 

[mshchem]

If you are into half frame 35mm, then 645 is a half frame like 120. I have 6x9 Fuji's (and 6x8) and every other thing. Film cost is a factor, 15 frames vs 10. Just saying.

 

[-persimmon-tree-]

If you are into half frame 35mm, then 645 is a half frame like 120. I have 6x9 Fuji's (and 6x8) and every other thing. Film cost is a factor, 15 frames vs 10. Just saying.

Because I'm into half frame 35mm, I want to go for a bigger negative in this case, since that is something I already like in 35mm.

 

[mshchem]

Because I'm into half frame 35mm, I want to go for a bigger negative in this case, since that is something I already like in 35mm.

Pentax 67 is a wonderful camera.

 

[Paul Howell]

Because I'm into half frame 35mm, I want to go for a bigger negative in this case, since that is something I already like in 35mm.

If you are into 1/2 frame 35mm the 645 will seem natural.

 

[Maris]

I have and use three different TLRs, a Bronica GS-1 system, a Kiev 60 system,
but over the decades the single best camera for image quality, reliability, versatility, and sheer productivity has been my Mamiya RB67 used on a tripod. Why?

Bellows focussing means every lens does close-ups.
Leaf shutters for flash synch.
Best mirror damping system, no mirror slap, no camera shake.
Lenses from fish-eye to telephoto.
Rotating back means never having to turn the camera on its side.
67 format negatives naturally fit standard rectangular paper sizes. Square shooters 6x6 have to crop to do the same.
Weight doesn't matter 'cos it's on a tripod.
Purely mechanical system, no electrics, no electronics to fail. Repairable into the indefinite future.

And it's not a veblen brand that asks stratospheric prices for mundane accessories.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Maris - you just gave a great argument for moving up to 4x5 instead of shooting MF at all, especially since the weight of an RB system exceeds that of numerous 4x5's.

 

[Maris]

Maris - you just gave a great argument for moving up to 4x5 instead of shooting MF at all, especially since the weight of an RB system exceeds that of numerous 4x5's.

Yes Drew, it's a valid point and I've got five 4x5 cameras to hand and a couple of 8x10s to keep me busy. But if I'm heading into the unknown I'll reach for the Mamiya RB67 gear (perversely perhaps) knowing that I can come back with at least a passable result that is not unexpectedly derailed by camera limitations. And the camera's weight is always supported on a tripod.
I'm not going to go through the agonies and expense of shooting medium format just to throw away random frames through hand held camera shake.

 

[GRHazelton]

You might consider the Pentax 645n. TTL metering, very accurate. Auto or manual exposure setting. Very nice handling and while it hardly needs an instruction manual, Mike Butkus has one for download. A good assortment of lenses, from a really excellent 35mm through a fine 75mm f2.8 normal, a nice macro, a couple of zooms, and a 400mm f5.6 autofocus. An adaptor is available to use Pentax 67 lenses. The only "problem" is that the digital version of the 645 has driven the prices up. Note that the Pentax 645 cameras don't have interchangeable backs, they do have film "inserts" which allow fast loading. Two tripod sockets allow quick changes on a tripod from horizonal to vertical format.
A TLR worth considering is the Minolta Autocord. There are several versions, meterless, with a CdS meter, and with a selenium meter. I have the selenium version, which works and is accurate. All versions, IRRC, use a f3.5 Rokkor taking lens, and a f3.2 Rokkor viewing lens. The Rokkor is an excellent Tessar formula lens, easily as sharp as a Xenar. See what Dante Stella says about the Autocord. Handling is excellent: the left hand focusses and shoots, the right hand winds. Auto film stop, of course, after setting the arrows on the backing paper to an index mark. Note: the focus lever is made of a somewhat fragile alloy. If it doesn't operate smoothly, have it looked after. Never force it!

 

[RalphLambrecht]

Hello!

First of all, I want to say I love this forum and the wisdom provided here -- I've been posting a decent amount of questions and was always helped substantially.

I bought a Pentax 67 as my first entry into serious MF (I've used a Holga before). The winding mechanism almost immediately broke, and the seller agreed to take it back for a full refund. I'm now wanting to do more research about which camera I should get. I've always really liked the look of the Pentax 67, and went for it on sort of an impulse, but I want to make sure to explore my options in more detail.

I mostly take 35mm and am interested in half frame for everyday photography. I want to use MF for more planned out, slow photos. I'd like to be able to carry it around in a backpack and ideally go on some short hikes, but I'm not going to be carrying it on crazy 10 mile hikes, doing street photography, or carrying it around for very long periods of time. It will mostly be used for street and nature scenes and portraits. I also don't need ultra super mega high definition sharpness. More sharpness is better, but I'm not going to be making gigantic massive prints of everything I take. I am just a hobbyist and am fine with very mild concessions in quality that you can only witness when looking at things ultra close up, for a lower cost. I expect to shoot almost entirely on a tripod.

I'm interested in 6x7 SLR ideally, but one rangefinder is also here. The camera is unlikely to get heavy use. I may shoot 4 rolls a month, on a heavy month.

I don't want to spend more than $1,000 on everything I need to get shooting (body, lens, finder, etc).

Current options I'm considering:

Pentax 67 MLU
Pros: I like the look and workflow on the one I used, good array of lenses, seems fairly available
Cons: seems prone to breaking (may just be my experience), cost

Mamiya RB67
Pros: modularity, availability, all mechanical which I like
Cons: Have heard that it is also prone to breaking randomly and suddenly, but not sure how accurate this is. Size seems inconvenient but not that big of a deal for my usage.

Fuji GX680
Pros: Really cool modularity and options, lens movements are interesting to me, I kind of like that it's a bit insane, cost is good
Cons: lots of electronics which seem hard to replace and prone to breaking at their age, gigantic size

Bronica GS-1
Pros: cost is good, I like the modular options and handles and such
Cons: from what I've researched, it's harder to find a version in really good condition because fewer were made. Build quality seems somewhat lower than rb67

Fujica GM670​

Pros: lower cost, seems really easy to use, all mechanical and I haven't heard anything about them failing or being very difficult/expensive to repair
Cons: rangefinder rather than SLR. I don't like this as much for framing. Also, the fact that it is a smaller and lighter camera is weirdly a slight con for me. I like being forced into a very very slow workflow, but I realize this is a bit of a silly "con".

I am open to also trying out an even cheaper 6x6, maybe a cheap TLR, and then continuing to wait and save up. Not that interested in Hasselblad. Would consider other options like the Kiev 60, but doesn't seem to have any distinct benefits.

Any insights here are much appreciated. I am continuing to do more research, but every time I've posted here, I always heard something new! Thanks.

I just can't misguide you. Even if it is just a hobby to you, anything but a Hasselblad is a waste of money. A Hasselblad is a one-time solid investment you won't regret. It is surprisingly small, and the image quality is always excellent. They are not cheap but, you only have to buy them once. A huge 2nd-hand market supports them, and you'll become a proud member of the Hassy family.

 

[-persimmon-tree-]

Well, after all that, I decided to go in on a Mamiya Press Super 23 with a 6x7 back, for $219. Definitely an underdog pick from what I've read here, but I like the idea of having a weird camera, the condition seems good with easy returns to Japan, very cheap compared to these others, and I've liked everything I saw about the camera online. Easier purchase than a lot of these other more expensive cameras!

 

[DREW WILEY]

There are all kinds of serious pro-quality MF camera systems with excellent lenses. Hassie is just one of them, and a rather clumsy one, ergonomically. And if you like a rectangular composition, all you really get from 6X6 is 645. If you need more image real estate out of the same 120 roll size for sake of better enlargements, go at least 6X7.

Some people do like square images. I'm just not one of them. I have had friends and family members with very expensive 6X6 cameras and Zeiss lenses. They nearly always ended up cropping the image rectangular. The logic behind square is that you don't need to reorient the camera between horizontal and vertical, but potentially crop the shot either way. I prefer a better approximation of the final composition in the viewfinder itself; it's just more intuitive for me to shoot that way.

But now that a Mamiya press camera has been selected, you still have nearly $800 left of your thousand dollar budget, and can still invest it in a Hasselblad lapel pin for sake of the bragging rights.
A Rollei lapel pin might cost more; they're rarer and more collectable.

 

[mshchem]

Well, after all that, I decided to go in on a Mamiya Press Super 23 with a 6x7 back, for $219. Definitely an underdog pick from what I've read here, but I like the idea of having a weird camera, the condition seems good with easy returns to Japan, very cheap compared to these others, and I've liked everything I saw about the camera online. Easier purchase than a lot of these other more expensive cameras!

I started medium format decades ago with a Koni-Omega, I had a Mamiya press. Makes great negatives!