The return of the Syrup: HC-110 in the water-free version manufactured again

[chuckroast]

An apples and oranges comparison though.
(Relative) ease of use, minimal storage space requirements, no need for experience mixing from constituent parts using scales or precise volumetric measurements, easily transported to borrowed darkroom facilities, easily shared between groups of users.
All sorts of use characteristics that make it (HC-110) much more appropriate for a lot of users who are a very different target market than the one you fit into.
And most likely, a much larger target market than the one you fit into.
As someone who really can't set things up for mixing my own developers - temporary darkroom space and a need to store things a bit of a distance away from where I actually use them - I'm more in the HC-110 market as well.

Fair enough, and very much on point.

I also went back and looked at the inflationary pressure on spending power from 1980 through today - it's about 4X. By that measure, the prices today for HC-110 are very roughly comparable to what we might have paid 45 years ago.

I take it all back This is what happens when I don't do my homework first. I will slink off now and sit in the corner of a dark room for hours to make penance ...

 

[brbo]

Manufacturers of the viscous varients recommend mixing the whole bottle to a 1+3 stock solution when the bottle is opened
yes? no?

No.

 

[Alex Benjamin]

Manufacturers of the viscous varients recommend mixing the whole bottle to a 1+3 stock solution when the bottle is opened
yes? no?

You can. Not you must .

Essentially, making a 1+3 solution is to make it easier to measure the working solution and avoid having to use a syringe.

 

[logan2z]

I've used the old syrupy Kodak formulation in the past and it was easy enough to measure out a small amount using a syringe. But I've since switched to the L110 'clone' from Legacy Pro. It has the consistency of water, which makes it easier to pour, although I still use a syringe to extract the required amount from the amber bottles into which I decant the full bottle.

The same dilution and development time I used for HC-110 works for L110 and the concentrate seems to last long enough for my purposes. L110 has also been consistently available while HC-110 has gone in and out of production. I don't see any compelling reason to switch back to the Kodak branded product.

 

[MattKing]

Is it accurate to say:
All HC-110 varients have a very long shelf life as long as the bottle is unopened

Yes.

Is it accurate to say:

An unopened bottle of the viscous (water free) versions probably won't last any longer than the thinner versions?

They tend to last for many, many years - decades in some cases. Thee newer less viscous versions haven't been around long enough to tell whether decades long longevity is a possibility, but its probably unlikely. There seems to be some indication that the newer stuff has very long life when unopened, but there isn't much data.

Is it accurate to say:

Once made into a 1+3 stock solution, the HC-110 developers storage life is no better than many other stock solutions

Yes

I say "might have a longer life" because I still don't know how long we can expect the water-based concentrated developer to last if it is in an opened bottle which is less than full. If it's more than 6 months, then the thin ones would have an advantage over the thick ones, right?

It isn't "water based". It just hasn't had all the water excluded/removed from it.

Is it accurate to say:

Manufacturers of the viscous varients recommend mixing the whole bottle to a 1+3 stock solution when the bottle is opened
yes? no?

The manufacturers make several, complementary recommendations. One of those recommendations is for high volume users - think commercial labs or shared community/school darkrooms or very busy photographers - is to make up a stock solution and then use it quickly. Other recommendations describe how to use it for one roll/tank at a time. The latter is what most of us do, and requires some care and precision, but it is eminently doable. There are a number of approaches to this, including how it is described in J-24.

Is it accurate to say:


If the above is true, then it seems to me a bottle of the thinner HC-110 developer (like Kodak Professional High Concentrate) might have a longer working life than the viscous type (like Ilfotc HC or the new Adox). By "working life" I mean the time between developing the first roll from the bottle and the time when the developer goes bad. Because the thin stuff can be measured to make up only what you need today, the unused portion of the bottle remains concentrated, and therefore retains its undiluted storage life -- unlike the thick stuff that gets diluted to a stock solution on day one.

It is easier to use the thinner stuff one roll/tank at a time. But it isn't all that hard to use the thicker stuff.

Most likely the biggest difference in longevity observable between the versions will be in relation to opened, partially full bottles of the concentrate. The oldest stuff tended to last and last. The newer stuff is likely to be long lasting, but not quite as long. Again, there isn't enough data out there about the newer stuff and multi year usage.

 

[Alan Johnson]

So, does that mean that the same product that is the subject of this thread is the real stuff?

From post 1 that does appear to be the claim but since the Adox SDS does not give a complete list of ingredients it is not possible to verify it.(Assumes by real stuff you mean the original Kodak syrup pre 2019),

 

[halfaman]

One curious thing about the HC-110 syrup is that it is not an active developer until diluted in water. Put a drop of syrup on top of a exposed film tail and it will do nothing.

 

[aoresteen]

Using the old syrup HC110 I would mix 1oz of syrup with 31oz of water to get to dilution B (1:31) and use it as a one-shot developer.

Do I do the same with the new 2019 HC110 water version to get Dilution B? I am down to my last bottle of my old HC110 syrup and will soon have to use the new stuff.

 

[runswithsizzers]

The manufacturers make several, complementary recommendations. One of those recommendations is for high volume users - think commercial labs or shared community/school darkrooms or very busy photographers - is to make up a stock solution and then use it quickly. Other recommendations describe how to use it for one roll/tank at a time. The latter is what most of us do, and requires some care and precision, but it is eminently doable. There are a number of approaches to this, including how it is described in J-24.

Thanks for the clarification. At first, I wasn't sure if the December 2017 J-24 Data Sheet from Kodak-Alaris was for the old (viscous syrup) version, or the newer, thinner version. But after some more searching, it looks like the thinner version was not released until 2019(?)

I assume the Kodak product described in the 2017 J-24 data sheet is no longer available, except on places like eBay. Can we also assume the J-24 data sheet instructions will work with the new Adox HC-110 Pro developer -- and/or with Ilford Ilfotec HC?

 

[Alan Johnson]

I assume the Kodak product described in the 2017 J-24 data sheet is no longer available, except on places like eBay. Can we also assume the J-24 data sheet instructions will work with the new Adox HC-110 Pro developer

Yes.
The writing on the container in post 1 says "Developing times and shelf life identical with the German version produced until 2022 and Google AI tells me "the German-made HC-110 produced until around 2022 was the original syrupy formula, not the less viscous version ".