The Power Of Volts and Milliamps!!

Discussion in 'Medium Format Cameras and Accessories' started by ic-racer, Jul 17, 2013.

  1. film_man

    film_man Member

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    I just sent mine to be rebuilt with NiMh. What charger do you use? My 6008i came with a G one which I'm not sure is the right one (manual seems to mention the N charger) but in any case, does anyone know if this will charge a NiMh battery?

    Can I also ask if you're using something other than the stock Rollei chargers which one did you go for? Or what the output spec of a suitable charger is?
     
  2. OP
    OP
    ic-racer

    ic-racer Member

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    I put all my Rollei-Brand chargers in storage about 7 years ago and started charging my photography equipment using the same chargers I use for RC models. Even when using original Rollei batteries, or rebuilt packs, the these chargers can cycle the batteries, and give capacity information.

    That was about the same time I first rebuilt a Rollei pack with NiMh cells. So, I never charged those packs with the Rollei chargers.
    In addition to the 'Venom' brand charger in post #16, I also use this iCharger 406. I only charge big batteries out side. The little 850mAh for the Rollei can probably be safely charged inside. These chargers all do Lead Acid, NiCad, NiMh, LiPo, LiFe.
    Charging Setup.jpg
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2017
  3. OP
    OP
    ic-racer

    ic-racer Member

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    If someone wanted to design or manufacture something plug-and-play for the general market, I suspect a USB jack, charging electronics and the battery could all fit in the original battery housing. USB has 5V and that would be enough for each of the 3 cells (4.2V each). That way one would charge it just like an iPhone with the charger circuit built-in to the device. (circuit shows the USB charger doing 2 cells, but maybe it could be configured for 3).

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2017
  4. JWMster

    JWMster Subscriber

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    IC-racer: Love a little more detail on the parts you're using. The rebuilds I'd bought seem to have bought the farm. Looking on the Venom site and reading more about LiPo's it's also possible I may have fried the LiPo with overcharging? Dunno. Anyway, my camera needs juice. I need to figure out how to get into the battery case, and what battery works. Suggestions... for a non-engineer are welcome. I have a Tenergy Balance charger... but they all essentially look and operate the same. My LiPo's had 2300 Mah... and I'm not sure what the specs ought to be, but working on this. I like the connectors you're using and it seems to me the idea of using RC race car batteries ought to be a good one.... so as I look back on this, your thinking is way ahead of mine.
     
  5. OP
    OP
    ic-racer

    ic-racer Member

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    The battery I'm using is 850mAh 3-Cell. I charged the LiPo a month ago and I have put 3 rolls through my Rolleiflex 6008i. The battery is still essentially full.
    One has to be careful not to let any cell voltage fall below 3.5 or so, volts. Also, when charging, I'd always recommend balance charging with the balance plug (that means taking the LiPo battery out of the case to charge).
    The case opens up with two little screws.

    Also, don't get confused. I started this thread in 2013 about rebuilding the battery with HiMh batteries, instead of NiCad. However post #24 of this month is about using LiPo instead of NiMh.

    No modification had been done to the battery housing that is permanent. Who knows, maybe in 3 years I'll be rebuilding the batteries back with NiMh Enoloop batteries if they make them in the right size.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2017
  6. Patrick Robert James

    Patrick Robert James Subscriber

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    If you are looking for a smart charger without having to make anything, there was a charger made by Maha with the number 777 in it but they are called something else now. Google will probably find it for you now. Worked perfectly. It has a magnet in the base and sliding pins. You just had to put the pins where you wanted and the magnet held the battery in place.

    I don't have a Rollei anymore, but when I did have one the rebuilt NiMH battery was pretty awesome. Made the camera real snappy, so if you have a NiCad pack now, rebuild it! You won't regret it.

    Hope that helps someone.
     
  7. JWMster

    JWMster Subscriber

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    Yes, IC-Racer and Patrick: After starting with two after-market batteries that now seem dead, I acquired a dead Rollei pack that looks to work a bit better. The question is whether to go with the IC-Racer pack approach... which has some appeal but the downside that LiPo's seem fairly easy to fry as I suspect that's what killed mine in the after-market pack, or go with a NiMH rebuild. The LiPo at least puts the recharging more in the current mainstream used by RC race cars and Drone fliers. And IC-Racer's looks great though a bit slim on the Mah..... but the interior dimensions of the case are the defining element here and 850Mah may be enough... and at least I know it fits! and pretty much how to wire it up with the charger. Wiring it up inside the battery case is another story... but with any luck, it will be fairly clear once I have a chance to dis-assemble the existing pack. The good thing about the LiPo... like I said, is that they are very much in the current mainstream and easy to acquire. Lots of choices, too.

    I guess the outstanding question I'd like to nudge IC-Racer for is the whipping end in the photo in post # 24 (red and black wires with a connector) has two open questions for a relative (low) non-techy like me. On the other hand, it's possible that once I open up the case, the whole is doggone obvious? Possible. My questions:

    1) How do you spec this for purchase in order to acquire one that will connect the battery to the contacts that connect to the camera? Source? Part number?
    2) Where did you connect the two wire ends on the removable front plate? I can almost see this in your photo, but just not quite. With solder or tab ends? (I'd assume solder)1

    I have lots of soldering gear from my model electric train days, but if you can throw a bum a dime's worth of info... a photo shot or two? would be worth a zillion bucks of trial and error. I'd ask for PM except I suppose others would find this equally helpful. Thanks!!!
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2017
  8. JWMster

    JWMster Subscriber

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    I've ordered 2 Turnigy batteries and a couple of connectors and I'm going to see if I can make a go of it. Kind of not crazy about removing the battery every time it needs a charge, but maybe there's a better solution that will jump out. So I wonder whether like with digital, Rollei SLX and 600x folks carry along extra batteries or not... and a screwdriver to accesss them... or what.
     
  9. paul ron

    paul ron Subscriber

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    how are temp sensors wired in? where do they go n the circuit?
     
  10. OP
    OP
    ic-racer

    ic-racer Member

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    So, there are multiple connectors on the outside of the battery. Two are for the charger and they bypass the fuse. Two are for the camera and they have the fuse in the circuit. The remaining two are for the temp sensor. On the inside, you need to identify the only two leads that go to the battery. The wiring for the fuse should not be altered and the temp sensor is not used.

    I shot 4 rolls of 120 last year in my 6008i. So, If I had started with a full charge, I'd still be good.

    I did do a non-balance charge (like one could do with the LiPo battery still in the Rolleiflex housing) and the resulting cell values were in balance as close as if I had done a balanced charge. So, it can be done, the thing is, that after a few rounds of non-balanced charging and discharging, one cell could go too high or too low. So, the official recommendation is always to do a balanced charge to avoid a fire.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2017
  11. OP
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    ic-racer

    ic-racer Member

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    Removing the LiPo for charging is a standard practice for many items, for example RC Transmitters use 2 cell LiPo or LiFe batteries and these need to be removed from the transmitter for charging. I do it all the time, it is worth the hassle because the Lithium batteries are better than the NiMh.
    [​IMG]
     
  12. JWMster

    JWMster Subscriber

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    Thanks for posting this. We'll see how this works out. If you're running only 4 rolls of 120 through your 6008i.... I'm a tad concerned as I'm looking to use my SLX as a main MF camera. Moreover, heard back from one repair man who said in his opinion, Rollei's and Mamiya RF's were "at best, light duty equipment". Not sure if that means me or not, but I can and have run 3 rolls in a day. We'll see. Currently waiting on delivery of new battery packs to see what we can cook up. THanks for your help.
     
  13. RalphLambrecht

    RalphLambrecht Subscriber

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    +1
     
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  15. Craig

    Craig Subscriber

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    Take a look at Digikey, they have lots of different battery configurations.
     
  16. OP
    OP
    ic-racer

    ic-racer Member

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    Realize my battery was on its last legs last year which limited my use.
    I got my SLX in 1987 and it was my main camera at the time. I number my film in order based on format. As I recall the last 6x6 format roll I processed last week was around #600. So in 30 years 600 rolls divided mostly between 124G, SLX and 2.8F. . Currently I shoot mostly 35mm and Large Format, instant and 8mm film. The 6008i gets only occasional use due to not enough days in the year to do everything. Though, now that I have a working battery solution 6008i, I already have 3 rolls through it and the year (2018) hasn't officially started yet.
     
  17. JWMster

    JWMster Subscriber

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    IC-Racer: Okay. So maybe I'm not sooooo discouraged. There are just times I wonder if I'm the only guy shooting mostly film rather than shooting film just for occasional fun. Leaves me wondering if this is like learning a dying art with equipment on the verge of giving up the ghost.

    Craig: Will do. THanks!
     
  18. OP
    OP
    ic-racer

    ic-racer Member

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    file_6.jpg I only projection print, and I don't like to get too far behind. This last year I got caught up, but at the start of the year I had a pile negative to review; literally thousands of exposures back to 2013 that I was not sure I had missed printing anything good.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2017
  19. JWMster

    JWMster Subscriber

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    Okay.... glad to hear it. I'm looking at fixing my 3rd party battery packs first, and would like to convert them to your pack from the 3 AA-size LiPo cells they use at present before messing with the Rollei built pack. At this point, I'm hoping all I've screwed up is the battery pack and NOT the camera.... but we'll live and learn. So in the words of those dreaded TV series from the 1960's... "TO BE CONTINUED...."

    But in the silence of the interim holidays, I've re-grabbed my 35mm cameras and been shooting with those for the first time in nearly 6 months. I've paired that to what I use and want to keep, and it's sweet to have a light weight option and use it again. As much as I'd like this SLX to be my main camera for "serious" photography, there are lots of other times it's just good to have a camera handy.... and I'm not sure a MF rangefinder would offer as convenient an option. Not sure it wouldn't.... but not in a rush to have an SLX and a MF RF... both of which could have electronic/electric power issues. One camera with issues is all I can handle for the moment.
     
  20. resummerfield

    resummerfield Subscriber

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    Outstanding work! Thanks for posting, and keeping this thread alive!
     
  21. JWMster

    JWMster Subscriber

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    Review of the photos you have here... now that I'm looking at the battery in my hand as well (yeah! Amazon!), things are looking like you connect only with the read lead. Of course, the connectors I bought on the "frequently bought together" are a bust and not even close to the right size. Bummer. Do you ever connect anything to the white connector? I suppose if I read the teeny tiny print in the teeny tiny spec sheet I'll get that, but I'm going to have to research the connectors. I'll post the results as we come round the corner to getting back in operation. Thanks IC-Racer!!! for keeping the thread alive. I'm just hoping this will be the key to my not feeling like I just signed on to white elephant. (Yipes...and hopefully, not Yipes).
     
  22. OP
    OP
    ic-racer

    ic-racer Member

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    The white plug is for the recommended balance charge. If one cell gets too low or too high you could have a fire. As shown in post #25 you could hook up a balance board inside the Rollei battery case to keep the cells balanced all the time.

    This guy used different LiPo cells and used a balance board in the Rollei case: https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Rollei+6000-6008+Battery+LiFePO4+Replacement/77648

    It is a common practice to do non-balanced discharge of these batteries in RC models or RC Transmitters with caution monitoring discharge rates and voltages. I have done thousands of discharges in RC models, and yes I have trashed a few batteries along the way, most RC modelers have. In terms of filling the battery up again, balanced charge with the white plug is always the safest as shown below.
    [​IMG]
     
  23. OP
    OP
    ic-racer

    ic-racer Member

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    In case you did not see the related thread, I'm also using the same type 850mAh 3-cell lipo in my Rolleiflex E36RE Handle Flash. I'll have to be more careful with that one, because the flash has no low-voltage shut off. The battery could easily get trashed if the flash were left 'on.'

    Lipo Adapter 3 small.jpg
     
  24. OP
    OP
    ic-racer

    ic-racer Member

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    I'm looking back at your post above and want to make sure you know your battery types. You mentioned you had Lipo of 2300mAh. Until my post in this thread earlier this month, and the link to "YouFixIt" and an internet search, I was unaware of anyone else using LiPo in the Rolleiflex. So, are you sure you had LiPos? I have not ever heard of a tiny LiPo that fits the Rolleiflex Battery Case with 2300mAh. As you see, the one I'm using is 850 mAh, and that is a state-of-the-art LiPo and is very high capacity for its size.
     
  25. JWMster

    JWMster Subscriber

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    Well... it all started off with this fellow's offering: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rolleiflex...709619?hash=item3d1fb12af3:g:l6IAAOSwanRXh6Md . It works, and he uses 3 cells in AA form that are wired in series. Each is 3.7 volts, 2300Mah. But the charger he supplies isn't a controlled, balanced charger and mine never worked. I substituted a 12volt standard VHF radio charger I've used over many years and the charge was 1st class. I then ordered a Tenergy Balanced Charger TB6B, but in the process of learning how to use it as well as the charge tester, I fried the batteries with a short across the contacts. FWIW, looking around and watching a couple of Youtubes, seems many Balanced Chargers have the same 4-button layout and are likely built by the same folks but sold under different names. Maybe. So it likely doesn't matter much 'cause they'll almost all work the same.

    Sensing that there had to be a better option, I ebayed a standard (dead) Rollei pack for the SLX with intent of rebuilding it. Didn't know I'd be doing it myself.... but Eric at Rollei USA has been struggling to find a rebuilder, so here I am and busy picking up this thread. Thanks! Bought 2 batteries that looked the same as the Turnigy Nano-Tech your photos show... and literally, the picture on Amazon was the same. The JST connectors (yellow) that they said were bought together are actually the same as offered on different sized Turnigy Nano-Techs. Turns out the connectors on this battery... which I believe are the same you have - connect the white to my balance charger's JST-XH Adapter for charging. This makes it clear that the red plug is for the discharge and to be connected to the camera through the contact plate. The Youtubes seemed to indicate that the MAh is basically the AMPs for discharge and translate on the charger to 0.8 Amps in the case of a 850Mah battery. Interestingly, the packaging for the battery and the websites (NOT Amazon's!) list the battery as 850Mah 3S 25-40C Lipo Pack, but the battery itself reads as in the photo shown as 850Mah 25-50C. Voltage on the bottom line lists as 2 cell = 7.4v, 3 cell = 11.1v, and 4 cell = 14.8v. Yet it is only the box the battery came in that we're given 3S and so 3 cells. I've seen simpler stuff in my life! but as long as we can get this thing to work... I'll be fine.

    Note that the key to life in the fast lane is that Hobby King's website (HobbyKing.com : https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-nano-tech-850mah-3s-25-40c-lipo-pack.html ) reports the discharge plug seems to be a FEMALE Mini-JST so that's what I've got to find with a red and black wire of appropriate gauge. Good news in this is that on the web page for this battery, lower down, there is a link to sale of a male pigtail to install in the battery case ( https://hobbyking.com/en_us/male-jst-battery-pigtail-12cm-length-10pcs-bag.html ). So I'll give this a shot. Worth noting is that most of the other Turnigy Nano-Techs that come up on the initial page use the larger XT60 plugs that came with my prior Amazon order as "frequently bought together"... so that decodes the mystery mistake. We could go down that road... but we won't at the moment.
     
  26. OP
    OP
    ic-racer

    ic-racer Member

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    Thank you for your informative description, it ads to the information out there on these batteries.

    Yes, I got my pigtails from HobbyKing.

    If you don't want to open up the battery to get to the balance lead, one thing I was considering is to enlarge the little hole through which the spare fuse would be accessed. Make the hole big enough to get to the balance plug and make a little slide to cover the hole.
     
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