The New Leitz - Wetzlar Leica M6 (and the dreaded film scratching issue)

Huss · Feb 16, 2023

snusmumriken said:
Unexpected manufacturing issues can arise at any time. Look at the number of recalls that car manufacturers make, even with long-established models. It seems unfair to accuse Leica of indifference - I’ll bet they are sweating buckets over this if it affects all new M6s.

Unfair to accuse Leica of indifference?

a Fan- boi arises!

1. They brag about all the quality checks every camera goes through.
2. They had my brand new camera for six weeks
3. They returned it unfixed yet said it was fixed so the obviously did not check if they fixed it. Apparently just waved a wand at it and said ‘scratches be gone!’
4. They have it now for a second time, now 10 weeks out of commission for a brand new camera.
5. I got an initial call from a rep saying they checked everything and couldn't find anything wrong. I asked did they run film through it and check the film? No.
6. When they finally did check the film, as I had initially instructed on Day 1, even including my roll of film as a guide - they confirmed the scratching!
7. Then told it is due to a batch of defective pressure plates - which then suggests they knew of this flaw as they used the word ‘batch’. But ignored that little factoid when dealing w my camera.
8. Then told no parts to repair my camera.
9. No response to me asking for a refund. No offer to switch it out for another camera.
10. No response to my ISO dial issue as of yet, even though it was listed on the repair order, and I provided pics of the issue, as well as pics of a correctly working one.

So yeah, I am being unfair to Leica….

benjiboy · Feb 16, 2023

David Lindquist said:
5295 United States Dollars per the Leica Store, San Francisco: https://www.leicastoresf.com/new/le...vXA&utm_content=230511496&utm_source=hs_email

David

I not only don't want or need one, but even if I did, I couldn't afford one, nor do I know anyone who could afford one either.

snusmumriken · Feb 16, 2023

Huss said:
Unfair to accuse Leica of indifference?

a Fan- boi arises!

1. They brag about all the quality checks every camera goes through.
2. They had my brand new camera for six weeks
3. They returned it unfixed yet said it was fixed so the obviously did not check if they fixed it. Apparently just waved a wand at it and said ‘scratches be gone!’
4. They have it now for a second time, now 10 weeks out of commission for a brand new camera.
5. I got an initial call from a rep saying they checked everything and couldn't find anything wrong. I asked did they run film through it and check the film? No.
6. When they finally did check the film, as I had initially instructed on Day 1, even including my roll of film as a guide - they confirmed the scratching!
7. Then told it is due to a batch of defective pressure plates - which then suggests they knew of this flaw as they used the word ‘batch’. But ignored that little factoid when dealing w my camera.
8. Then told no parts to repair my camera.
9. No response to me asking for a refund. No offer to switch it out for another camera.
10. No response to my ISO dial issue as of yet, even though it was listed on the repair order, and I provided pics of the issue, as well as pics of a correctly working one.

So yeah, I am being unfair to Leica….

Look, I hope you get it resolved quickly, OK? Personally I’m not in the market for new Leica anything, not even a lens cap. So I am kind of brand-nostalgic but definitely no unquestioning fan. Yet I can imagine the panic that may/should be going on at Leica over this. Memories of the M5 flop and the magenta cast of the digital M8 must still be open sores.

faberryman · Feb 16, 2023

Did any of the internet reviews mention a scratch prone pressure plate? It is sort of a rhetorical question.

NB23 · Feb 16, 2023

faberryman said:
Did any of the internet reviews mention a scratch prone pressure plate? It is sort of a rhetorical question.

It is good practice to systematically polish any and all pressure plates from all your cameras, regardless.

Buy a 1.99 sandpaper grit 2000, lick the pressure plate and polish that plate with your thumb and a piece of paper under it. Guranteed to work and the pride you get from believing that you fixed a 6000$ (30,000$ in a few prticular (nut)cases) is priceless.

Pieter12 · Feb 16, 2023

snusmumriken said:
Look, I hope you get it resolved quickly, OK? Personally I’m not in the market for new Leica anything, not even a lens cap. So I am kind of brand-nostalgic but definitely no unquestioning fan. Yet I can imagine the panic that may/should be going on at Leica over this. Memories of the M5 flop and the magenta cast of the digital M8 must still be open sores.

The M5 was not a failure as a camera, it was a marketing failure. It deviated enough from the traditional Leica customer’s idea of an M camera that it did not sell well. Otherwise, it remains one of the best Leicas every made.

Mike Lopez · Feb 16, 2023

Huss said:
Unfair to accuse Leica of indifference?

a Fan- boi arises!

1. They brag about all the quality checks every camera goes through.
2. They had my brand new camera for six weeks
3. They returned it unfixed yet said it was fixed so the obviously did not check if they fixed it. Apparently just waved a wand at it and said ‘scratches be gone!’
4. They have it now for a second time, now 10 weeks out of commission for a brand new camera.
5. I got an initial call from a rep saying they checked everything and couldn't find anything wrong. I asked did they run film through it and check the film? No.
6. When they finally did check the film, as I had initially instructed on Day 1, even including my roll of film as a guide - they confirmed the scratching!
7. Then told it is due to a batch of defective pressure plates - which then suggests they knew of this flaw as they used the word ‘batch’. But ignored that little factoid when dealing w my camera.
8. Then told no parts to repair my camera.
9. No response to me asking for a refund. No offer to switch it out for another camera.
10. No response to my ISO dial issue as of yet, even though it was listed on the repair order, and I provided pics of the issue, as well as pics of a correctly working one.

So yeah, I am being unfair to Leica….

You probably know this and maybe you're doing something about it already, but there are likely any number of lawyers in your area who would be plenty happy to write a demand letter to Leica on your behalf to make all of these points. It might hit Leica a little differently if it comes with the appropriate letterhead.

mshchem · Feb 16, 2023

I wonder if Huss' camera was sent to a truly competent repair person like DAG if the problem could be fixed??

GregY · Feb 16, 2023

Pieter12 said:
The M5 was not a failure as a camera, it was a marketing failure. It deviated enough from the traditional Leica customer’s idea of an M camera that it did not sell well. Otherwise, it remains one of the best Leicas every made.

I'd suggest, like the Edsel, it failed in acceptance by the public. You can market all you want, in any style and intensity, but if the public refuses to buy..... that does reflect on the product. I agree with you, the the M5 is one of the best Leicas ever made (i owned one new) but i disliked working with it....and i traded it back very quickly.

Pieter12 · Feb 16, 2023

mshchem said:
I wonder if Huss' camera was sent to a truly competent repair person like DAG if the problem could be fixed??

Why would anyone send a new, still under warranty camera to an independent technician? It is Leica’s responsibility to make the camera right. Besides, if Leica doesn’t have the parts, no one else will. And having unauthorized service performed on the camera will most likely void the warranty. I‘m guessing Huss has enough cameras to use he doesn’t need to resort to such measures.

Sirius Glass · Feb 16, 2023

mshchem said:
I wonder if Huss' camera was sent to a truly competent repair person like DAG if the problem could be fixed??

Pieter12 said:
Why would anyone send a new, still under warranty camera to an independent technician? It is Leica’s responsibility to make the camera right. Besides, if Leica doesn’t have the parts, no one else will. And having unauthorized service performed on the camera will most likely void the warranty. I‘m guessing Huss has enough cameras to use he doesn’t need to resort to such measures.

I agree, it is under warranty.

mshchem · Feb 16, 2023

Pieter12 said:
Why would anyone send a new, still under warranty camera to an independent technician? It is Leica’s responsibility to make the camera right. Besides, if Leica doesn’t have the parts, no one else will. And having unauthorized service performed on the camera will most likely void the warranty. I‘m guessing Huss has enough cameras to use he doesn’t need to resort to such measures.

You people are looking for an argument. All I said is I wonder if a truly competent technician could fix this.

I just got in from snow blowing 8 inches of snow. You folks are probably sitting under a palm tree.

I wish I was.

Best Regards Mike

I need to print post cards

Huss · Feb 16, 2023

I wouldn't send it to an indie tech, no matter how good they are, as this is a brand new out of the box warrantied camera and I don't want there to be any sort of 'out' where there could be a claim that as a non-authorized tech touched it, warranty is void.

And I'm lucky to have other cameras so this is just an 'inconvenience'. If this was my one and only, then things would be different.
Did I mention how awesome $20 Nikon N80s are?

Mike - I'll take a postcard from you!

Pieter12 · Feb 16, 2023

mshchem said:
You people are looking for an argument. All I said is I wonder if a truly competent technician could fix this.

I just got in from snow blowing 8 inches of snow. You folks are probably sitting under a palm tree.

I wish I was.

Best Regards Mike

I need to print post cards

Not looking for argument, just pointing to the unreasonable solution that was proposed. Plus you seem to be suggesting the Leica does not employ competent technicians.

Huss · Feb 16, 2023

Pieter12 said:
Not looking for argument, just pointing to the unreasonable solution that was proposed. Plus you seem to be suggesting the Leica does not employ competent technicians.

Do you think they employ competent technicians? They claim a multi-step QA process that they sign off on that cute little QC card that they pack with each item. And yet all these defective products make it through to the public.
Currently - so not even in the past - scratching M6, 35mm Summilux FLE v2 with broken aperture blades, 35 Summilux Steel Rim where the lens hood causes hard vignettes, M11s which freeze up.
These same competent technicians 'serviced' my camera after it was sent back, w/o fixing anything.

It seems hard to make an argument for competence right now. But the reason I am sticking w them is because it is a new warrantied product, and I am not going to pay to get it fixed, or give them an excuse to invalidate the warranty by having someone else touch it.

Huss · Feb 16, 2023

Look, my QC card signed off by two competent technicians!

faberryman · Feb 16, 2023

NB23 said:
It is good practice to systematically polish any and all pressure plates from all your cameras, regardless.

Buy a 1.99 sandpaper grit 2000, lick the pressure plate and polish that plate with your thumb and a piece of paper under it. Guranteed to work and the pride you get from believing that you fixed a 6000$ (30,000$ in a few prticular (nut)cases) is priceless.

What would cause a pressure plate to require periodic polishing? Abrasion from film or backing paper?

Pieter12 · Feb 16, 2023

Huss said:
Do you think they employ competent technicians? They claim a multi-step QA process that they sign off on that cute little QC card that they pack with each item. And yet all these defective products make it through to the public.
Currently - so not even in the past - scratching M6, 35mm Summilux FLE v2 with broken aperture blades, 35 Summilux Steel Rim where the lens hood causes hard vignettes, M11s which freeze up.
These same competent technicians 'serviced' my camera after it was sent back, w/o fixing anything.

It seems hard to make an argument for competence right now. But the reason I am sticking w them is because it is a new warrantied product, and I am not going to pay to get it fixed, or give them an excuse to invalidate the warranty by having someone else touch it.

For me, the responsibility lies with management for allowing such things to continue to get through inspection and be delivered to their dealers. Over and over it seems. On another forum, a member sent (through his local Leica dealer and Leica US) a camera for minor service. When it arrived in Germany, it was totally demolished, body broken beyond repair. It looked like it had been run over by a truck or dropped from a great height onto a hard surface. No explanation from anyone how it could have happened or anyone taking responsibility.

mshchem · Feb 16, 2023

Huss said:
Look, my QC card signed off by two competent technicians!

This is the ultimate irony. If I was LEITZ not LEICA, I would take away their red dots.
These geniuses should of had Cosina build these.

If they would spend as much on QC as making beautiful little videos (and they are beautiful!) this wouldn't be happening. I agree this is a management problem. When I worked for an enormous appliance company there came a directive from the top that we had to implement sourcing parts from LCCs Low Cost Countries. (Large communist countries??).
We were forced to idle factories from defective parts, rust, you name it. Workers and supervisors on the line hit the big red button that stopped production

Anyone in the world can make beautiful parts and products given proper support and resources.

NB23 · Feb 16, 2023

faberryman said:
What would cause a pressure plate to require periodic polishing? Abrasion from film or backing paper?

Not periodic, just as soon as you acquire it.

Huss · Feb 16, 2023

Huss said:
Functionally my M6 was identical to my MP. Everything looks and acts the same. The only difference is the film winder, and film rewind. And the ISO dial - which is broken on mine!!! It cannot be set at 400 for example, only above or below!
When I compared both, the VF is identical. The meter is identical. Everything you can see in the camera is identical.

When Leica was actually asked - what are the new bits? No answer. Now think about it logically. The MP is a current production item. The M6 works exactly the same way. Why would it make any sense for them to have different bits inside the camera? If there were changes, then the MP would be changed too. From a manufacturing and economic view point, the more pieces that are interchangeable across the line, the better it is for efficiency and the company's bottom line.

Again, when asked what is the difference, Leica only points to the original M6. Not the MP. And the new M6 is different from the original one, as it has the meter from the MP, brass top and bottom plates (instead of zinc), it has the VF and RF mechanism from the MP which is much better than the original M6 one.
They are intentionally vague and ambiguous, as they wanted to hype it up. And not have people think 'oh, it's just the MP but w a red dot now'. It's all about marketing.

The ISO dial on my new M6 - trying to set it to 400:

An acquaintance was kind enough to send me a pic of the ISO dial on his new 2022 M6. He can set his to 400. So another thing broken on my camera.

Arthurwg · Feb 16, 2023

Very sad. Thankfully my old M6 still works perfectly from new, and my IIIF also works perfectly following an overhaul by Ye.

Patrick Robert James · Feb 16, 2023

Huss said:
And I'm lucky to have other cameras so this is just an 'inconvenience'. If this was my one and only, then things would be different.
Did I mention how awesome $20 Nikon N80s are?

Just reminding you Huss I only paid $17 for mine.

I actually enjoy using the N80 more than my Leica M3 1mil.

I hope they do right by you. Sounds like they will eventually. It sure is inconvenient in the meantime though. And pretty disappointing.

Besk · Feb 16, 2023

Funny, at present, I have an M6, and a IIIF plus a CL but my N75 is where the film is loaded. (Don''t own an N80.)

Moose22 · Feb 17, 2023

Patrick Robert James said:
Just reminding you Huss I only paid $17 for mine.

Braggart. Mine was close to $30 if you add in shipping.

And @Bob Eskridge I shot with a IIIf and my N80 tonight. The cheap, fun cameras I seem to enjoy the most right now.

The New Leitz - Wetzlar Leica M6 (and the dreaded film scratching issue)

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