The New Leitz - Wetzlar Leica M6 (and the dreaded film scratching issue)

[darkosaric]

Never have I experienced cameras scratching films.

I have seen this, but long long time ago. Once it was on Zorki 4 range finder, and second time it was some SLR, but cannot remember which brand was it.

 

[Huss]

Just buy a Minolta CLE and have Scott Nielsen service it.
It’s a better viewfinder and better build.
You can buy 7-8 Minolta CLE for the price of a Leica m6.
If I ever buy a M Leica “otheir than CL”it would be a 20th century one,
It’s obvious the Germans are not their best in the 21st century.

I had two. Better build? Are you kidding me? You like that plastic body covered with metal paint? Ever noticed why a CLE does not dent, but gets spider cracks? That is the metal paint impacted over the plastic base.
Better vf? for 28mm yes, everything else no. Try to focus a 50mm lens on it wide open. Step up to a 90.
And I hate how the meter turns off in manual mode. No sense. At least it has AE lock to make up for that - oh wait, it doesn't.

I have a bunch of Ms - this new M6 is the only freak show. Once it gets sorted it will be fine. All my other Ms are great, and there is a big reason I sold my CLEs but kept the Ms.

 

[Radost]

I had two. Better build? Are you kidding me? You like that plastic body covered with metal paint? Ever noticed why a CLE does not dent, but gets spider cracks? That is the metal paint impacted over the plastic base.
Better vf? for 28mm yes, everything else no. Try to focus a 50mm lens on it wide open. Step up to a 90.
And I hate how the meter turns off in manual mode. No sense. At least it has AE lock to make up for that - oh wait, it doesn't.

I have a bunch of Ms - this new M6 is the only freak show. Once it gets sorted it will be fine. All my other Ms are great, and there is a big reason I sold my CLEs but kept the Ms.

Apparently they are better build because they dont scratch film.
I have 3. none of the have spiders. I only shoot 28 and 40.
For more SLR. Range finders are not made for long lenses IMHO.

 

[NB23]

I had two. Better build? Are you kidding me? You like that plastic body covered with metal paint? Ever noticed why a CLE does not dent, but gets spider cracks? That is the metal paint impacted over the plastic base.
Better vf? for 28mm yes, everything else no. Try to focus a 50mm lens on it wide open. Step up to a 90.
And I hate how the meter turns off in manual mode. No sense. At least it has AE lock to make up for that - oh wait, it doesn't.

I have a bunch of Ms - this new M6 is the only freak show. Once it gets sorted it will be fine. All my other Ms are great, and there is a big reason I sold my CLEs but kept the Ms.

The CLE is way better, you should buy a fewskies.

 

[brbo]

I only shoot 28 and 40.
For more SLR. Range finders are not made for long lenses IMHO.

Especially not the crippled ones like CL or CLE. M3 has more than twice the effective rangefinder base length of that in CLE.

 

[Huss]

Apparently they are better build because they dont scratch film.
I have 3. none of the have spiders. I only shoot 28 and 40.
For more SLR. Range finders are not made for long lenses IMHO.

See now, I have been completely transparent about the issues w my particular M6. Not doing the fan boi thing, the way you are trying to do w the CLEs.
I have owned two CLEs - both failed, became bricks. And I currently own 8 film Ms, not including the M6. The film Ms have been, and are, fantastic. The issue with the M6 is down to the incompetency of Leica NJ.

You conveniently ignore all the issues of the CLE. The build quality - a plastic body w fake metal feel paint - is always there. There is no fix for it, and if you drop it, the plastic cracks underneath the paint, showing the spider web marks. That is build quality - it has nothing to do with an easily replaceable pressure plate. Leica NJ has repeatedly dropped the ball on that.
You gloss over the very real issue that the CLE only meters in auto, that's it. And has no AE lock. Or that is has a very short rf base length so it is not suitable to be used for fast lenses wide open. You're down to one tech who may or may not be able to work on your camera. But it is good that he gives you hope.

The CLE is a nice camera. It's a shame both of mine died - never abused, never dropped, just age. But you obviously have never used an M, and in not doing so are trying to make yourself feel better about the CLE. Enjoy your camera for what it is, no need to try to compare it to others.

 

[Huss]

I have seen this, but long long time ago. Once it was on Zorki 4 range finder, and second time it was some SLR, but cannot remember which brand was it.

I have owned a lot of cameras. And three scratched film. A Leica r8 - it has a nylon film roller thing that wears out - easily fixed by covering it w a tiny piece of scotch/sellotape. Leica m6. Horizon S3 U500 pano camera. That Horizon was notorious for scratching film, BUT they do it on the edge of the picture frame on the horizontal border, so it wouldn't ruin a pic!

 

[mshchem]

I have owned a lot of cameras. And three scratched film. A Leica r8 - it has a nylon film roller thing that wears out - easily fixed by covering it w a tiny piece of scotch/sellotape. Leica m6. Horizon S3 U500 pano camera. That Horizon was notorious for scratching film, BUT they do it on the edge of the picture frame on the horizontal border, so it wouldn't ruin a pic!

Huss, I'm with you on the M thing. Amazing how nice these cameras are. Clearly Leica fumbled a bit on the introduction of the new M6, sounds like the film scratches are due to a single out of tolerance part, hopefully the pressure plate is the solution.
My M6 with January build date is perfect (so far). Flawless finish, brilliant viewfinder and extremely bright rangefinder.

I noticed a different signature of the quality certificate.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I had two. Better build? Are you kidding me? You like that plastic body covered with metal paint? Ever noticed why a CLE does not dent, but gets spider cracks? That is the metal paint impacted over the plastic base.
Better vf? for 28mm yes, everything else no. Try to focus a 50mm lens on it wide open. Step up to a 90.
And I hate how the meter turns off in manual mode. No sense. At least it has AE lock to make up for that - oh wait, it doesn't.

I have a bunch of Ms - this new M6 is the only freak show. Once it gets sorted it will be fine. All my other Ms are great, and there is a big reason I sold my CLEs but kept the Ms.

Nothing handles or feels like a M camera but I still prefer SLRs instead.

 

[Huss]

The signature scratches from my Horizon U-500. Kinda cool as it doesn't mess the image

 

[Huss]

Huss, I'm with you on the M thing. Amazing how nice these cameras are. Clearly Leica fumbled a bit on the introduction of the new M6, sounds like the film scratches are due to a single out of tolerance part, hopefully the pressure plate is the solution.
My M6 with January build date is perfect (so far). Flawless finish, brilliant viewfinder and extremely bright rangefinder.

I noticed a different signature of the quality certificate.

If your M6 is good, you're good! it'll be that way for years. Mine obviously is from an effected batch. The problem is Leica completely bungled the very easy fix.

Ms are amazing to hold and use, and for me because they feel so good in hand, they make me take them out and look for an excuse to go take pics. That is the ultimate compliment for a camera.

 

[snusmumriken]

Ms are amazing to hold and use, and for me because they feel so good in hand, they make me take them out and look for an excuse to go take pics. That is the ultimate compliment for a camera.

Surely that’s the only purpose of a camera!

 

[Huss]

Surely that’s the only purpose of a camera!

Indeed. But an M to me is much more enjoyable to use than pretty much any other camera I have. So I use them more.

 

[Radost]

See now, I have been completely transparent about the issues w my particular M6. Not doing the fan boi thing, the way you are trying to do w the CLEs.
I have owned two CLEs - both failed, became bricks. And I currently own 8 film Ms, not including the M6. The film Ms have been, and are, fantastic. The issue with the M6 is down to the incompetency of Leica NJ.

You conveniently ignore all the issues of the CLE. The build quality - a plastic body w fake metal feel paint - is always there. There is no fix for it, and if you drop it, the plastic cracks underneath the paint, showing the spider web marks. That is build quality - it has nothing to do with an easily replaceable pressure plate. Leica NJ has repeatedly dropped the ball on that.
You gloss over the very real issue that the CLE only meters in auto, that's it. And has no AE lock. Or that is has a very short rf base length so it is not suitable to be used for fast lenses wide open. You're down to one tech who may or may not be able to work on your camera. But it is good that he gives you hope.

The CLE is a nice camera. It's a shame both of mine died - never abused, never dropped, just age. But you obviously have never used an M, and in not doing so are trying to make yourself feel better about the CLE. Enjoy your camera for what it is, no need to try to compare it to others.

You have 8 Ms????
You know they all do the same thing right?
Send me those death CLE I will be happy to get them back working.

 

[Radost]

Nothing handles or feels like a M camera but I still prefer SLRs instead.

I only shoot M for the lenses.
If somebody made a 28mm F2.8 quality lens for an SLR I will be happy to shoot that.

 

[snusmumriken]

You have 8 Ms????
You know they all do the same thing right?
Send me those death CLE I will be happy to get them back working.

But you already have 3! You know they all do the same thing, right?

 

[Radost]

But you already have 3! You know they all do the same thing, right?

I want to make sure I have one for the next 40 years. I don’t shoot them all. If one breaks I will get the other.

 

[Radost]

But you already have 3! You know they all do the same thing, right?

Also the CLE range finder does not get out of adjustment every time I fart like the Leica once. Not my experience but have been told by repair man and Leica users.
The Leica CL “made by Minolta “ has been dropped and kicked and still works great.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Also the CLE range finder does not get out of adjustment every time I fart like the Leica once. Not my experience but have been told by repair man and Leica users.
The Leica CL “made by Minolta “ has been dropped and kicked and still works great.

One can cut down on the farting by eating less gaseous foods. That will clear the air.

 

[mshchem]

I'm full of gas, just ask my wife . I have several rangefinder cameras, different makes. My rangefinders don't go awry.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I'm full of gas, just ask my wife . I have several rangefinder cameras, different makes. My rangefinders don't go awry.

Do you cut the cheese?

 

[Huss]

You have 8 Ms????
You know they all do the same thing right?
Send me those death CLE I will be happy to get them back working.

Each one has doubled in value. Bought one M7 w 3xxx serial # for $1500. Now worth $4k. Bought my Mp .58 for $3500. Now worth $7-$8k.
it’s quite nice really to know that the cameras you are using are also making you money, and not just in print sales!

CLE? Three plastic cameras that don’t have AE lock or manual metering? I would have thought you would have noticed that on the first one.

 

[Huss]

I only shoot M for the lenses.
If somebody made a 28mm F2.8 quality lens for an SLR I will be happy to shoot that.

The Leica R 28 2.8 is fantastic. i have one. You should get one. Highly recommended.

 

[Marcelo Paniagua]

The Leica R 28 2.8 is fantastic. i have one. You should get one. Highly recommended.

Have to agree with you Huss. That lens is one of the best 28's I've used. Leica R lens are pretty fastastic value. Probably they had gone up in price since they are being used on FF dslr though.

 

[koraks]

@Radost @Huss - we get it: one of you likes the CLE, the other likes the M. The jousting has been only somewhat snarky up to this point, so perhaps drop the subject already. You're not going to win each other over - and there's no need to, in the first place. Thanks.