Testing and evaluating CatLabs "X Film 320 Pro (2022 version)

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Oldwino

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First roll out of the soup, drying. First impressions:
1. Speed seems to be around 200. Close enough for snapshot use, anyway. I shot it in my 1932 Leica II, so not the world's most accurate shutter. Next roll maybe in the FM3a.
2. A touch contrasty in Rodinal 1+25, in spite of the Elmar 3.5cm lens. Will try 1+50 for the next roll.
3. Base does pipe some light, so best to load in subdued light if possible, or burn off an extra frame when loading.
4. It is not Double X.

Will know more after it dries and I can scan it.
 

pentaxuser

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Oldwino just out of interest was the DX code covered and if so by what such as electrical tape, white label? Was the cover removable and if so what was the code underneath?

Thanks

pentaxuser
 

Oldwino

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Oldwino just out of interest was the DX code covered and if so by what such as electrical tape, white label? Was the cover removable and if so what was the code underneath?

Thanks

pentaxuser
The DX code was covered in black tape. The cassette is printed with the CatLabs logo and info (ie not a sticker on a generic cassette), so I am assuming that maybe the cassettes were mis-printed with the wrong DX code and a piece of tape was the most cost effective solution.
I do not know what the DX reads as.
CL320_IMG_1909.jpg CL320IMG_1910.jpg
 

Disconnekt

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The DX code was covered in black tape. The cassette is printed with the CatLabs logo and info (ie not a sticker on a generic cassette), so I am assuming that maybe the cassettes were mis-printed with the wrong DX code and a piece of tape was the most cost effective solution.
I do not know what the DX reads as.
View attachment 318546 View attachment 318547

If I'm reading the dx coding info that's on wikipedia (here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DX_encoding), its 640 iso, 24 exposure, +3/-1 exposure tolerance
 

Disconnekt

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I think you're reading that upside down, to me, it looks like 1250 ISO, 24 exposure, +2/-1

They have the cartridges on their website photo without the tape, it's the same. In any case, not correct for the film.

Oop, you're right, I was reading it upside down 😂
 
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pentaxuser

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Thanks for that reply Oldwino. So that's 2 users with black tape and a DX of 1250 and if I recall correctly one with white tape instead but as that person was not in a position to check the DX code underneath until after he had developed each cassette he could not tell me what he code was underneath at my tome of asking

Did anyone ever make a film with an ISO of 1250? Certainly I cannot recall any such film. I suppose a DXcoding machine may have produced 100s or 1000s of cassettes with a wrong coding before it was noticed and CatLABS was able to get these very cheaply for its use

pentaxuser
 

BrianShaw

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Kodak Royal-X Pan. ASA 1250 Long gone.


And since we're dabbling in trivia... I've been wondering why anyone cares about DX coding. Are there still cameras that use it and, if only vintage cameras, how many people actually are using them.
 

miha

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And since we're dabbling in trivia... I've been wondering why anyone cares about DX coding. Are there still cameras that use it and, if only vintage cameras, how many people actually are using them,

Some P&S cameras chose weird ISO settings, like 25, when a non DX cassette is loaded.
 
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...And since we're dabbling in trivia... I've been wondering why anyone cares about DX coding. Are there still cameras that use it and, if only vintage cameras, how many people actually are using them.

My F6 uses it. I have to override it, manually selecting 80 when shooting Delta 100 for PMK development. :smile:
 

Moose22

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Kodak Royal-X Pan. ASA 1250 Long gone.


And since we're dabbling in trivia... I've been wondering why anyone cares about DX coding. Are there still cameras that use it and, if only vintage cameras, how many people actually are using them.


LOTS of point and shoots don't let you set your own ISO.

And lots of kids love the point and shoots. At least amongst the young people I know who shoot film. So it is a bit of a big deal.
 
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aparat

aparat

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I have a minor update to make. I have been working slowly (not much free time these days), so data will be coming infrequently. I am also running out of my supply of Catlabs Pro 320, so I will have to buy additional rolls of 35mm in the near future.

My initial test was disappointing because the film ended up being severely underexposed. Analyzing film curves with such long toes is difficult, and their interpretation somewhat unreliable. Clearly, the amount of exposure needs to be significantly greater than that required for an ISO 200 film, at least under my experimental conditions.

I am, therefore, running another test. This time, I am giving the film a lot more exposure than the recommended ISO 320 or EI 200. Unfortunately, it's not possible to do reliably with my calibrated sensitometer because I would have to use exposures in excess of 2 seconds. Without knowing reciprocity data from the manufacturer, such a test would be futile.

So I constructed a makeshift pseudo sensitometer. It is very simple, but I think, given my test results so far, it's reliable, at least, in giving consistent exposure from trial to trial. I am using an enlarger with a condenser head. Underneath the light source, I placed an 80A filter. Then, I have a recently CLA'ed Copal shutter installed on the enlarger lens board. Just a shutter, without a lens. I am using the shutter speed of 1/4 sec. I have tested it, and, indeed, the shutter is open for almost exactly 0.25 sec. I measured the light level on my enlarger base board to be around 23 Lux. I attach a few pictures of the contraption.

20221013_132216.jpg
20221013_131720.jpg
20221013_131425.jpg
20221013_130438.jpg

I must emphasize the fact that this "sensitometer" is not professionally calibrated. Therefore, its data cannot be relied upon to give absolute exposure values. However, it can be used, I think, to give a rough idea of film performance (including estimated film speed, CI, G, Gamma, etc.). But, more than anything, I think it can be used to give a decent idea of relative performance, as in, for example, comparing two (or more films).

To establish a baseline, I used a strip of Catlabs Pro 320 and Arista Edu Ultra 100 (both fresh). I used the exact same exposure and developed both in the same tank in D76 1+1 at 20C for 8 minutes in a rotary processor. I am attaching the curves of those two films obtained in this first test.

I think that this is roughly the kind of curve that we can expect from Catlabs Pro 320, given enough exposure. I think that current amount of exposure is appropriate to run a full film test. If you disagree, please let me know and I will be glad to adjust the exposure accordingly.

My preliminary findings from these two curves are that the "speed point" exposures are around 2.7 for AEU100 and 2.41 for CPro320, respectively, so the rough difference in film speed seems to be around one stop. In this non-calibrated test, I am getting around IS0 70 for AEU100 and ISO 35.7 for CPro320, if developed to the same average gradient of 0.62. Also, note, AEU100 has much higher B+F density than the CPro320, hence it is "higher" in the plot.
aeu100_and_catlabs320.png

There's a lot more data coming...
 

pentaxuser

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aparat, unfortunately my knowledge of film testing metrics is very poor but certainly from your tests it would seem that the ISO is very low indeed. Most of the examples we have seen to date seem to have been exposed at around 200 and several others seem to think this is close to its real speed but I am not sure if any form of measurement was applied by the others. CatLABS itself seems to hint that 200 may be its best speed but won't be drawn on this in any meaningful way unfortunately

What might be useful as a kind of supplementary test is the one a YouTube presenter called John Finch of Pictorial Planet demonstrates

It may be one you are totally familiar with but for interest here's the link

 
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MattKing

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BradS

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it would be really cool if somebody with one of those fancy automatic cameras set it up to automatically make a series of exposures ... an auto bracket kinda thing. say every half stop over a range representing ISO 100 +/- a few stops?

Anybody with a Nikon F5 or similar care to have a go at it?
 
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aparat

aparat

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aparat, unfortunately my knowledge of film testing metrics is very poor but certainly from your tests it would seem that the ISO is very low indeed. Most of the examples we have seen to date seem to have been exposed at around 200 and several others seem to think this is close to its real speed but I am not sure if any form of measurement was applied by the others. CatLABS itself seems to hint that 200 may be its best speed but won't be drawn on this in any meaningful way unfortunately

What might be useful as a kind of supplementary test is the one a YouTube presenter called John Finch of Pictorial Planet demonstrates

It may be one you are totally familiar with but for interest here's the link



Yeah. I saw that people are getting results they like by exposing at EI 200. I don't doubt it!

As far as the "actual" ISO speed is concerned, I am much less concerned about the actual film speed number and more about how one film compares to another, especially one that has been around for many years and one that a lot of photographers depend on for predictable results.

Thank you for the link to the video! That's a fascinating technique. I remember seeing something similar in an old video by Fred Picker a long time ago. It seems like it's particularly useful for an all analog workflow. Fred Picker got ISO 140 from 35mm Tri-X, developed in HC110, if I remember correctly. I am still unable to make prints in the darkroom, but perhaps another forum member could give it a shot? It would be great to have data from other people to compare with.
 
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pentaxuser

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I think this is the shortest post I've ever seen from Pentaxuser 😉 :whistling:

I must have pressed the wrong button. The posts may get shorter to the point of being non existent as I am starting a new job tomorrow as a keyboard operator in a nuclear silo 😄

In fact, now I think about it, everybody else's posts may be non existent as well 😧

pentaxuser
 
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aparat

aparat

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I must have pressed the wrong button. The posts may get shorter to the point of being non existent as I am starting a new job tomorrow as a keyboard operator in a nuclear silo 😄

In fact, now I think about it, everybody else's posts may be non existent as well 😧

pentaxuser
That's hilarious. I am going to steal the line about the nuclear silo (with your permission) and use it to reply to my son when he calls me clumsy (mostly when I accidentally crash into things with my crutches 😀).
 

ic-racer

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Yes that’s all I want to know, your asa/iso for trix and the same for this film. How many stops apart.
Somehow this most important number is buried in 44 posts.
 
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aparat

aparat

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Yes that’s all I want to know, your asa/iso for trix and the same for this film. How many stops apart.
Somehow this most important number is buried in 44 posts.
Yeah, sorry about that! This thread was created from another thread, so details are buried deep inside it.
 

Romanko

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So I constructed a makeshift pseudo sensitometer
Could you please provide a bit more details how your sensitometer works? Do you have a calibrated step-wedge that you put in front of the film as is done in commercial sensitometers? Or do you have a slide that covers parts of your film as your make multiple exposures (similar to how you would do exposure tests strips for printing)?
Please continue your experiments. I have little interest in Catlabs' films but your tests and methodology are fascinating!
 

MattKing

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For some reason I am now yearning to buy a few rolls.

And this is a good thing. That would be a very good result from the contributions to this thread.
 
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Well my order of 120 and 35 showed up today, I'll be trying it in a Pentax ZX5n with auto bracketing and a Fuji GS645S. I plan on trying some test shots as shown in the video in the post above and developing in HC110 because that's what I have. Based on Catlabs recommendation, the HC110 might lower the contrast somewhat. I haven't had my enlarger out for 15 years, might have to try a print.
 
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