You guys have to explain something to me. From the little I understand in this thread, tests you're doing show this film to have a film speed around 80, but my experience with it in the street gave me perfectly workable negatives at 200, developed in XTOL at the recommended time. I know one user's experience is anecdotal, but yet, still begs the question: if the science doesn't match the experience, surely, the science must be wrong, no?
These are fantastic! Thank you for posting. I think your progression illustrates very nicely how the shadow and mid-tone information is rendered by each exposure and film speed rating. Highlights can be controlled with development time.Well, I did my version of a film test yesterday. I divided up a 35mm roll into three cannisters and shot one roll using the method of determining ISO in the John Finch video linked to earlier. But I don't have any paper on hand to run that test so that will have to wait. Then I shot a sequence of what I thought would be a wide range of light values in one image. It was a lightly overcast day with occasional moments of direct sunlight. The scene is on the shaded side of the house with the post at the bottom of the stair in direct sunlight. All photos were taken while the sun was shining directly on the stair post.
I set my ISO manually to 200 based on the recommendation in the box label for use with HC110 and used the compensation dial on my Pentax ZX5n to go from a -.5 to a +3 in half stop increments as shown in the photos below. The Pentax was set for matrix metering. I developed the film in HC110 for 10.5 minutes as recommended.
Notable colors in the scene: The sky is lightly overcast, so mostly white. The house is a medium blue. The house across the street is a dark brown. The tree on the left has turned a bright yellow. The chair behind the railing gate is dark brown, with a woven texture that is visible starting with the 200 ISO setting. The railing is a smooth white pvc plastic.
I scanned the negatives on an Epson v850 with no adjustments. I find I like the moodiness of the 200 ISO shot, but the 200 +.5 is probably most accurate. The longer exposures have blown out highlights and darker elements such as the house across the street are too light. Of course, everyone's monitor is different, so you may come to a different conclusion. In fact, now when I view these on my phone, I would choose the 100 and 100 +.5.
After reading what Matt wrote about more exposure and less development, and watching the second John Finch video, I wish I had also shot the last third of a roll and developed with a shorter time.
I asked this very question earlier in the thread. People much smarter than me answered this question long ago, because this "problem" has existed in photography forever, really. Industry standards, such as the ISO 0.1 over B+F film speed criterion, are very specific, which is, partly, what makes them standards. How they reconcile with real-world experience is up to each individual photographer to figure out. But, crucially, these are not mutually exclusive.
I will quote Fred Picker on this very subject - I do this from memory so I apologize if I misquote him. By the way, he found Kodak Tri-X to be EI 140: "Film speed is based on exposure for Zone I, which is minimum printable density or 0.1 over film base + fog. Manufactures have determined that it is best for the world out there, but experienced photographers want to control their exposures better."
Wow. I think I've seen one of those on eBay some time ago. Mine (X-Rite 810) has what looks like an old serial port connector at the back, but I doubt I could connect it to a modern PC.
Thank you!Well, I did my version of a film test yesterday.
Actually you can connect a serial cable to any modern PC. You must buy a serial-to-USB adapter for 10-20 USD, and then your X-Rite should be able to squirt measurements directly into a text-file or spreadsheet.
Here are the adapters available on Amazon.
Awesome! Are you familiar with this connector form factor? It is larger than the standard PC serial port, or am I misremembering?
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Wow! That's a blast from the past! Assuming that's RS-232 (serial), you can buy an adapter to convert this ancient large connector to a modern small one. Here's an example.
Given today's scanning technology and software, I could have adjusted any of the photos in my test to produce an acceptable image, and I think that's what most young photographers expect to do these days. So having an exact ISO evaluation isn't as important.
Exactitude may not be necessary, but it is generally handy to have a reasonably accurate guess - at least for the purposes of making a buying decision or sharing information about the film with the people with whom we like to share information about films - and not just on the internet.
I bet most of the retailers who sell this stuff also like to at least have the option to quote something standardized - at least to the portion of their customer base who do care.
And yes, us long time darkroom users may now be far from the average. But those I've encountered who are newer to this stuff seem far from identical in the things they want, need, appreciate and dislike.
You can read the book online (free, but requires an account):
s there a resource page for important books on analog photography to which the above link can be added?
Fantastic. You are right. I just confirmed it by opening up the manual, which has been sitting on the shelf all along. So all I need is a RS-232 to serial cable plus a serial-to-USB adapter, yes? I owe you one. This is going to simplify things a lot. Thanks!
My densitometer is a Macbeth TR1224. It can output measurements on a serial port. Apparently the intent was that the operator at a local laboratory would measure process control strips and send them via modem to central quality control.Well, I wasn't going to say anything but here's a shot of part of my desk at this very moment.
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You guys have to explain something to me. From the little I understand in this thread, tests you're doing show this film to have a film speed around 80, but my experience with it in the street gave me perfectly workable negatives at 200, developed in XTOL at the recommended time. I know one user's experience is anecdotal, but yet, still begs the question: if the science doesn't match the experience, surely, the science must be wrong, no?
Enjoy this new film, not sure where to find it in Europe, and if they'll distribute it here I will buy my usual 100/200 test rolls for sure and optimise the film for my workflow. Seems like great stuff based on @Huss samples.
You're saying you're getting out there and actually doing some photography with this film? Are you mad?
But seriously, to answer your question: there is no science in amateur densitometry/sensitometry tests. It's a festival of spurious correlations, unaccounted-for covariation, and measurement+operator variance so big it can be seen by one those swarms of Elon Musk satellites.
None of this stuff would even remotely get through the editor of (let alone be considered for peer review by) the journal of South Surinamese and Peloponnesian Gender Studies.
Enjoy this new film, not sure where to find it in Europe, and if they'll distribute it here I will buy my usual 100/200 test rolls for sure and optimise the film for my workflow. Seems like great stuff based on @Huss samples.
I thought this thread was an attempt to find out things about this film that CatLABs has not told us. It has no other aim.
I hope it doesn't degenerate into a version of the other CatLAB's thread. The one thing we already know from the other thread and on which there is no dispute is that some like this film and do not have any concerns about the lack of information whereas others do have concerns about that lack of information and seek here to do something about finding out
pentaxuser
CatLABS does not specify the mode of film processing. The development times shown are for the film shot at "EI 320". Just as with film speed, there is no explanation of the methodology CatLABS used in arriving at its recommended times for development in the various developers.
That's odd, considering they sell Jobo equipment along with this film. You would think they would want to give instructions for this film to their Jobo customers, but no matter.
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