Rollei Digibase C-41

[Mark Antony]

Normally if the results look to blue then the problem is with the colour developer temp (too high) and or time too long possibly excessive agitation would also give that effect.
If the result looks blueish (sometimes cyan-blue highlights) with low contrast or weak high densities contamination with fixer may be a problem.

 

[hrst]

To me, it sounds quite impossible that there would be big differences in forgiveness of time, temperature and agitation between different manufacturers. This goes both ways around! Rollei claims that their kit is MORE forgiving, when they claim it can be used at almost any temperature. You claim the opposite from your experience. I claim that neither is true.

I'm sure your results are for some other reason.

You have some random error, or this is again one of the many Rollei problems. 5 second difference doesn't cause a disaster, it will cause a minor shift in overall density and contrast and a very minor shift in color balance / crossover. 30 second difference is considered 1 stop push/pull, thus 5 seconds equals to about 1/6 stop, a difference most people cannot see or even measure, no matter what.

So, the real problem is not the time, it can be a temperature problem (of 1 deg C or more), a mixing problem or a Rollei problem.

For temperature, there are a few cathes;
1) Make sure your FILM and TANK are at temperature before starting (a decent preheat, at least 5 minutes without prewet, preferably more, or a 2-stage prewet with carefully measured temperature)
2) Make sure your DEVELOPER is at correct temperature. Measure the developer, not only water bath.

If your process is not consistent, it's hard to say whether one process is more forgiving than other. After all, what the inconsistency is, it's randomness, and you can have good results by luck. Make your process consistent.

 

[Hell-on-a-stick]

If the result looks blueish (sometimes cyan-blue highlights) with low contrast or weak high densities contamination with fixer may be a problem.

It wasn't So much an overall shift, just very saturated blues. other than a few frames here and there, that did look very cyan, as though cross processed.

 

[Hell-on-a-stick]

T
For temperature, there are a few cathes;
1) Make sure your FILM and TANK are at temperature before starting (a decent preheat, at least 5 minutes without prewet, preferably more, or a 2-stage prewet with carefully measured temperature)
2) Make sure your DEVELOPER is at correct temperature. Measure the developer, not only water bath.

If your process is not consistent, it's hard to say whether one process is more forgiving than other. After all, what the inconsistency is, it's randomness, and you can have good results by luck. Make your process consistent.

Well, in this case, i was doing everything 'right'. In the sense that I was checking my developer temp, i prewashed in 107F water and left the tank in the water bath to maintain temperature between inversions. I would say that 4 inversions every 30 seconds is almost too much for this kit, though it may have something to do with the way the top vent is constructed on my plastic tank. At least as far as creating a magenta mask on the negative. The first several rolls I put through the Digibase came out 'wrong'...by the time i hit the 8th roll, my results were much better as the developer exhausted, but i still had overly saturated colors and strange color balance. For instance, i took some late evening shots at a Colorado Park called 'Red Rocks'. There was a very yellow sunlight and deep shadows. The shots look as though they were taken about 10 oclock in the morning on a clear day. Great blues and yellows, no red tones or green tones whatever.
I certainly assume 'user error' before I would say that the chemicals are poor as this was my first attempt.

 

[pentaxuser]

I would say that 4 inversions every 30 seconds is almost too much for this kit, though it may have something to do with the way the top vent is constructed on my plastic tank.

I have no experience of this kit but I'd be surprised if it isn't designed to work with Jobo processors which in effect is the equivalent of continuous inversion. If 4 inversions every 30 secs is too much then you'd think that continuous cycles of rotation in both directions would render this kit useless.

I'd be interested in other's comments on the OP's conclusion on inversions and the use of Jobo continuous rotation.

pentaxuser

 

[kompressor]

I have no experience of this kit but I'd be surprised if it isn't designed to work with Jobo processors which in effect is the equivalent of continuous inversion. If 4 inversions every 30 secs is too much then you'd think that continuous cycles of rotation in both directions would render this kit useless.

I'd be interested in other's comments on the OP's conclusion on inversions and the use of Jobo continuous rotation.

pentaxuser

This kit is especially designed for JOBO. Follow the times and temeratures in the instructionsheet. The JOBO should run on highest speed. (CPE 2 I.e at Speed 2)

 

[RobertV]

The results on F for developer are OK. For the Bleach and Fix on P. (CPA-2, with elevator). About the same procedure then K54 C41 Amaloco. The difference is that the Orange mask is less dense compared to the K54 mono-negacolor kit but this kit was containing CD-2. I did for a bit less contrast develop on 37,3C (-0,5C) instead of 37,8C. With the Digibase C41 kit the contrast, Orange mask etc. are fine on the regular 37,8C temperature.

Follow the times and temeratures in the instructionsheet

Indeed.

 

[pentaxuser]

Thanks for the info on the kit and using Jobos. So all of the above suggests to me that 4 inversions at 30 secs intervals isn't the cause of the OP's problems.

pentaxuser

 

[epatsellis]

I'd think not, C41 processing requires continuous agitation throughout the 3:15 dev time.

 

[Mark Antony]

I can think of several machines/processors where agitation isn't constant. My dip and dunk machine would have a five second nitrogen burst every 15 seconds, when I worked a handline it was about 4 lifts of the basket every 30 secs if my memory serves me.
Obviously minilabs are continuous as the film is agitated as it moves though the solution.
If this kit is designed for a Jobo that would indicate continuous agitation, although I don't think all C41 requires it...

 

[RobertV]

Jobo is reversed rotary agitation. But on F the unit is not running very fast. (32 RPM).
The C41 developing time is exactly 3:15 minutes ending by the elevator at 37,8C. The accuracy is about +/- 0,3C for the CPA-2 unit.
Perfect negatives. But that was also with the K54 Amaloco kit. So the Rollei Digibase did not change anything. Just also a perfect C41 kit.

 

[hrst]

C-41 is C-41 is C-41. There's nothing "designed" "specially" "for Jobo". (Almost) continuous agitation is of course needed for C-41 and this is true for every kit. They all use the same developing agent (or should use it), which has the same properties, and the diffusion is largely controlled by film, temperature and time. I'm sure minor modifications could be made in other chemical components that would control the diffusion and/or oxidation of CD-4, but would they work without messing up color balance and contrast? It has, after all, to work with all films at standard temperature.

This BS factory is really starting to irritate me. When there are problems, people say: "This is just repackaged Fuji chemistry, so it cannot be faulty!" And then, after a few moments, it's something super-hyper re-designed specially for Jobo, and it runs at every temperature. How can it be, if it's just Fuji chemistry? Or is it just Fuji chemistry? Or has Fuji designed this novel, groundbreaking product just for Rollei, and if yes, why in the world they won't sell it under their own name?

I hear about terrible gunk after Final Rinse, I hear about consistency problems and leaking bottles. Instructions are proved faulty in many regards. They omit important washes, and they give false information that you can process at any temperature, giving the compensation list. I'm not surprised I was proven right by the test provided in this thread. The results are far from perfect, and far from the results at standard temperature. They can be interesting for experimenting, but that is true for any kit! Time-temp compensation works if the quality is compromised as a trade-off, but there's nothing new in this.

I wish it was easier to buy C-41 chemistry...! There are many products on the market but most of them are very difficult to buy.

 

[Hell-on-a-stick]

Well, I noticed when i was gently inverting maybe 10 times per 30 seconds that i was gaining a magenta mask on the negatives. The included instruction sheet stated that the magenta mask was a result of 'too vigourous agitation' as I lowered the agitation, the mask began to look clear and normal again.

 

[Hell-on-a-stick]

C-41 is C-41 is C-41. There's nothing "designed" "specially" "for Jobo". (Almost) continuous agitation is of course needed for C-41 and this is true for every kit. They all use the same developing agent (or should use it), which has the same properties, and the diffusion is largely controlled by film, temperature and time.
This BS factory is really starting to irritate me. When there are problems, people say: "This is just repackaged Fuji chemistry, so it cannot be faulty!" And then, after a few moments, it's something super-hyper re-designed specially for Jobo, and it runs at every temperature. How can it be, if it's just Fuji chemistry? Or is it just Fuji chemistry? Or has Fuji designed this novel, groundbreaking product just for Rollei, and if yes, why in the world they won't sell it under their own name?

I hear about terrible gunk after Final Rinse, I hear about consistency problems and leaking bottles. Instructions are proved faulty in many regards. They omit important washes, and they give false information that you can process at any temperature, giving the compensation list. I'm not surprised I was proven right by the test provided in this thread. The results are far from perfect, and far from the results at standard temperature. They can be interesting for experimenting, but that is true for any kit! Time-temp compensation works if the quality is compromised as a trade-off, but there's nothing new in this.

I wish it was easier to buy C-41 chemistry...! There are many products on the market but most of them are very difficult to buy.

Agreed most heartily. It seems that the best thing to do is buy the 5 gal kodak or fuji kits, deal with the space issue and the volume issue, and just shoot enough film to make it worthwhile.

How can film chemicals be 'made specially' for a jobo machine?!? didn't the chems come before the machine?

Anyway, I will be purchasing another digibase 10 roll kit, 'just to see' and i'll definitely post the results. Despite the industry bs, I feel another shot is in order...same with the unicolor. we'll see.

 

[Paul Green]

Well I purchased a maxi pack from AG and it arrived today, I shall be deving about ten rolls this weekend so shall give me findings also. I’ve used Tetenal kits for both E6 and c41 using a jobo. I doubt he meant that they were made specifically for the Jobo, it’s just that the instruction manual includes a lot of information on using the chems with the processor.

 

[Mark Antony]

A
How can film chemicals be 'made specially' for a jobo machine?!? didn't the chems come before the machine?.

While that is true in the main there are many different types of C41 chemical kits available. The first one I remember being C41A for the disc film process, there is C41 RA for faster minilabs there is C41 LR (low rep rate) there is C41 AC high rep rate etc.

Most of these have the same temperature and developer times the main differences being bleach type and times, C41A for the Kodak disc system used overflow (weaker) developer.

I doubt this kit was made for Jobo but I know Fuji make different chems specifically for their minilab lines.

 

[perminna]

I'm going to mix the first 500ml batch from my 2.5 liter Digibase kit today.

The instructions don't say and I didn't find any info from this thread either: is it necessary to compensate the chemical exhaustion in CD, bleach and fixer times? Should I do the same as with Tetenal C-41 kit: additional 15 seconds in CD time after every 2 rolls of film, additional 2 minutes in bleach time after every 2 rolls of film?

 

[hrst]

I think PE has posted the compensation table (scan from an older Kodak instruction) many times, they are for Kodak chemistry but they should work in the same way. Tetenal should also be same.

Bleach and fix do not need extra time. At least this is the instruction in Fuji Hunt kit. Maybe if you overuse the chemistry, which is not recommended, then extra time can be good then. Tetenal's different because it's a blix kit.

Fuji gives 9 extra seconds after 24 rolls in 5 liter (2.4 rolls in 500 ml), and 18 seconds after the next batch. I attached the FujiHunt instruction. But please ignore the "120" row, it has some error (this kind of phenomenon of 120 film being much different from 135-36 is not described anywhere else).

 

[Paul Green]

I deved my first 5 rolls using the maxi kit yesterday. It was fairly hassle free and chose to use the Kodak times supplied by another member in this thread.

 

[brucemuir]

Nice shot Paul!

 

[mikecnichols]

I developed another 2 rolls. I followed the Kodak times for processing and am pleased with the results. Here are a couple images.

 

[perminna]

I think PE has posted the compensation table (scan from an older Kodak instruction) many times, they are for Kodak chemistry but they should work in the same way. Tetenal should also be same.

Thanks for the attachement. It didn't catch my eye when I browsed the thread through.

I developed 4 films on Monday. Two 135 films at once according to Rollei's instructions, and then two 120 rolls separately by adding 15 seconds to CD time. I got okay results but I'll look into the chart for the next dev round.

I'm really impressed on the Rollei chemicals so far. The color cast is not that much better than what I got with Tetenal C-41 but the negatives came out much cleaner. It'll be interesting to see how's the real-life storage life for these chemicals.

Here are three frames from the first Rollei processed rolls. All of these are quick scans, no photoshopping applied (I'm removing the dust spots etc. from the final versions).

In 2009 expired Kodak Gold 200 (135), shot at ISO160, developed normally:

Fuji Reala 100 (120), shot at box speed, developed with additional 15 seconds:

In 2002 expired Kodak Gold 200 (120), shot at ISO200, developed with additional 15 seconds:

 

[mikecnichols]

I have a question about final rinse and drying. It seems that the bottom couple of frames of my rolls are more susceptible for water staining and I'm pretty sure it is due to squeegeeing and/or the gravitational nature in hang drying. This is a two part question, is it possible to clean the negatives that have this phenomenon (and how) and how is it preventable on future rolls?

Here are a couple of examples:

 

[AgX]

In case yot are squeegeeing in one run beyond the bottom frame that should not happen just at those frames.

 

[mikecnichols]

Is there any way to fix it on the rolls it has unfortunately occurred on?