Question about medium format folding cameras

[xya]

Are you sure? Sinar is more likely. And far out of the OP's price range.

yes, a sinar vario, going from 6x12 to 6x4.5. it's wonderful, I have one http://www.oddcameras.com/cambo_wide_470.htm at the bottom of the page. and yes, you can change format any time mid roll. and yes, yes, it's far out price wise.

 

[nokia2010]

The camera is nice, but the price ain't. But in the future, it might be an option.
For the moment, I do look for something cheaper.
I got me today an 1931 "Zeiss Ikon" catalogue. In French. It belonged once to a photo shop (store) in Bucharest - they do have a stamp of the front cover. French was the English of it's day in Romania. I don't speak niether French or German, but I do understand part of what it's saying, Pretty nice catalogue. I will scan it in the future. Today I will write on a paper the intresting information and then I will look for more on the internet. Maybe I will find a camera or model of camera that fits the best for my needs.

 

[nokia2010]

I've took a look at that catalogue from 1931. Found parts of the things here too: https://www.pacificrimcamera.com/rl/00442/00442.pdf
But what is that adapter from page 11? It's a kind of back like the one used in some medium format S.L.R.'s?
In the 1931 catalogue they are mentioning that some cameras could have attached tele-lenses. Those lenses screw over the existing leneses?

"Voigtländer" Berghiel is intresting... but I doubt that I will find any in Romania.

As I sayed before, I'm instrested in a camera like this only for taking views of the city. For fast action I will use S.L.R.'s or digital stuff. I want medium format for some stuff because it does offer more details. Of course it can be done with digital, but a good digital camera I don't think is so cheap. And digital cameras are heavy. A metal body "Zorki" or "Minolta" is light compared to them.

But what in the world was the "Zeiss-Ikon" Mirax?

As for lightmters, the famous company "Gossen" made some that could be adapted for different agnles. The 'Luna...' series. Found them in Romania, but at high prieces and no adapters. For the moment I do have a 'Sixomat' (Selenium lens) which I think works pretty fine, except for the time when light is powerful (gives one step overxpousere). I made a compare with the lightmeter from my "Minolta" X-700 camera.

 

[grat]

Decide what's most important to you. Price, size, flexibility-- pick two.

You could get a 6x9 folder + rangefinder pretty cheap (I have a Bessa I + Askania RF that cost me about $100 USD). You could get a folding box camera like the ICA / Zeiss cameras pretty cheap, although adapting it for roll film will require luck or ingenuity, or both. Finding a clean lens with a functioning shutter will take work. But they are out there.

You could build a "Standard" 4x5 camera that will be bulky (it's a monorail), but will have movements galore-- then put a 120 film back on it.

Or, a medium format press camera, with a 120 back on it.

 

[nokia2010]

Price is the main objective. But you know, sometimes products can pop up at very nice prices, even in a country like Romania.
So if I do find something, I want to know if it's worth the price, if it's a good offer or the price is too big.
Is this camera any good? https://www.olx.ro/oferta/aparat-foto-cu-burduf-IDe9B5x.html#9c057a6277

 

[Donald Qualls]

The best combination (IMO) of price and limited movements (front rise and, IIRC, a little shift) is a 2x3 Speed or Crown, or the later Century, with a roll film holder. Lenses mount on a board so they can be switched in the field, and you'll find focal lengths from 60 or so to 120 (maybe even 135) that will focus with the bellows available. Many of them have a rangefinder, and the older ones have the highly adjustable Kalart, which can be calibrated for almost any lens -- but if you swap lenses, you can still mount the ground glass to focus without the RF and keep the calibration for when you put the "normal" lens back.

 

[Dan Fromm]

The best combination (IMO) of price and limited movements (front rise and, IIRC, a little shift) is a 2x3 Speed or Crown, or the later Century, with a roll film holder. Lenses mount on a board so they can be switched in the field, and you'll find focal lengths from 60 or so to 120 (maybe even 135) that will focus with the bellows available. Many of them have a rangefinder, and the older ones have the highly adjustable Kalart, which can be calibrated for almost any lens -- but if you swap lenses, you can still mount the ground glass to focus without the RF and keep the calibration for when you put the "normal" lens back.

Hmm. The 2x3 Crown works with focal lengths from 35 mm to around 200 mm (non-tele) and around 250 (telephoto).

The Kalart is somewhat adjustable, all right, but recalibrating it in the field after changing lenses is, to be polite, impractical. The recommended procedure is to calibrate the RF for the normal lens, then mount bed stops and focal distance verniers for the other lenses to be used. Use the RF to measure the intended focused distance, transfer the setting to the vernier for the lens that will be used for the shot. People say this isn't practical, for some reason don't complain about focusing convertible lens Kodak Retinas, which use a process that is logically -- not physically -- the same.

But this is all just empty time wasting. The OP doesn't have the resources to find, let alone purchase, a 2x3 Graphic, roll holder(s) and lens(es) to fit it.

 

[nokia2010]

2x3 Crown is "Graflex"?
One model of this was for sale in Romania: http://camera-wiki.org/wiki/Patent_Etui
wonder if it can be tilted.
I'm not intending to buy it, but I'm curios how where these cameras: https://www.okazii.ro/camera-aparat...mann-carl-zeiss-cu-etui-placi-mare-a210725225

 

[Dan Fromm]

2x3 Crown is "Graflex"?

The manufacturer is Graflex Inc. The model is called Pacemaker Crown Graphic, often shortened to Crown Graphic, sometime shortened to Crown. The Crown Graphic has a wood body, was made in three sizes for, respectively 2.25"x3.25", 3.25"x4.25" (= quarter plate) and 4"x5". There is an economy version of the 2x3 Crown Graphic, called Century Graphic, whose body is made of a thermosetting plastic rather like Bakelite. To learn more about these cameras visit www.graflex.org.

 

[darinwc]

I agree with Donald and Dan. A 2x3 Graflex is the most versatile for the money.

However, what you are asking for is actually a very specialized qualification. You are looking for something portable and cheap that you can photograph city scapes with.

You do not actually need movements for that. Just use any 6x9 camera, and keep the back of the camera vertical. That will keep the buildings vertical. You should be able to find a good folding camera like the zeiss nettar, ercona, or a moskow 2. The moskow 2 has the advantage of a coated lens and a rangefinder.

Just accept the fact you are NOT going to get the tops of buildings AND keep the verticals straight unless you have a really wide angle lens. And that is going to cost you more than 100 euros for just the lens, no matter what camera you get.

The best combination (IMO) of price and limited movements (front rise and, IIRC, a little shift) is a 2x3 Speed or Crown, or the later Century, with a roll film holder. Lenses mount on a board so they can be switched in the field, and you'll find focal lengths from 60 or so to 120 (maybe even 135) that will focus with the bellows available. Many of them have a rangefinder, and the older ones have the highly adjustable Kalart, which can be calibrated for almost any lens -- but if you swap lenses, you can still mount the ground glass to focus without the RF and keep the calibration for when you put the "normal" lens back.

 

[darinwc]

Also, if you want to use lens movements, you will need to mount the camera on a tripod. That just blows up you goal of portability.

 

[darinwc]

On an interesting side note, I just received this camera a few days ago. Amazingly it has rise, fall, and shift! It is not marked anywhere but it has a rodenstock lens.

 

[vickersdc]

I've used my W.O.P. 6x9 folder for years (really good up the Alps when skiing as it fits into a pocket and still gives a decent size negative). I have never found anything about the W.O.P. cameras but I assume it's 1930's and rebranded for a dealer? Anyway, still works like a dream and I like the results from the uncoated lens.

And it was really cheap too!

 

[mr rusty]

I use a 120 folder as a regular walk-about camera - Franka Solida III.https://oldcamera.blog/2011/12/09/franka-solida-iii-camera/ I like the compactness and weight of 120 folders. Only downside for me at the moment is I moved house and I am sans darkroom, with a lot of work to do to get a new one built up, - why I have not been here so much recently. Cest' la vie!

 

[vickersdc]

Only downside for me at the moment is I moved house and I am sans darkroom, with a lot of work to do to get a new one built up.

I'm in exactly the same boat - moved house and I think I'll be without a darkroom for a long while. I've taken to paper negatives (which is fine when it gets dark early) and Instax film.

 

[GarageBoy]

Steer clear of pre war folders (1920 - 45). While there are some very good ones among them, they are mostly more flimsily build, and have seen extra decades of heavy use (most folders where put on emeritus pensions in the 60s) and they have no coating, weird or no flash sync, and worst of all the glass used for the lenses sometimes age poorly.
Many of the post war folders use lanthanum glass for some or all of the elements. This means better lenses, especially with simple ones, and glass that is unaffected by time.

I'd like to get a pre war folder just to have one - what are the best of the bunch? Would a Kodak No. 1 be considered mid range?

 

[Donald Qualls]

How "pre-War" do you want? I have a 1927 Voigtlander Rollfilmkamera (ancestor of the first Bessa, scale focus 6x9 folder) -- with 10.5 cm f/4.5 Skopar, the only thing I've ever wished it had is a rangefinder, but for ten bucks...

This was a top-end camera for its day. Fast (for the day), top quality lens, well made -- and obviously durable, since it still works.

 

[Wayne]

And which war?

 

[GarageBoy]

That's the era I was thinking off 1900-1940

 

[nokia2010]

I use a 120 folder as a regular walk-about camera - Franka Solida III.https://oldcamera.blog/2011/12/09/franka-solida-iii-camera/ I like the compactness and weight of 120 folders. Only downside for me at the moment is I moved house and I am sans darkroom, with a lot of work to do to get a new one built up, - why I have not been here so much recently. Cest' la vie!

Ha, in the box of an old flash unit (Magnesium) I found a manual for such a camera. I looked, but only low variants I found for sale.
Today I got me for free a "Voigtländer" Bessa. It needs a service because the shutter it wosn't work properly. Beats me how much it will cost, but at least the camera was for free and I din't payed for a camera that soon started to had problems. The problem may come because the camera wasn't stored properly.

 

[Helge]

I'd like to get a pre war folder just to have one - what are the best of the bunch? Would a Kodak No. 1 be considered mid range?

The Kodak’s from after about the
mid twenties are build to a price.

Welta Weltur is good.
The prewar Bessas are also great.

The prewar Zeiss Ikon folders are strangely not that hot IMO. Not terrible. Just not among the better.

But again at that age, condition and personal taste matters above all else.
When you get a camera that is around a hundred years old, typically you want some kind of obvious aberrations in your photos.

 

[GarageBoy]

Thanks I'll look into them! Never wanted a folder that wasn't a bessa ii until recently

 

[takilmaboxer]

A couple of my favorite folders are pre-WW2 Zeiss with uncoated Tessar lenses in Compur Rapid shutters. The bodies (from 1937 on) are the same as the post war folders, very durable and reliable. IMHO the Compur Rapid is more reliable than the Synchro Compurs. But my faves are mid-50s Zeiss with coated Tessars, which I bought from Certo6 with CLA'd shutters. The 645 version is about the size of a pack of cancer sticks. It goes everywhere with me!

 

[nokia2010]

How much did you payed for the cameras?

 

[Donald Qualls]

The 645 version is about the size of a pack of cancer sticks. It goes everywhere with me!

Yep. Medium format doesn't get any smaller than a scale focus 645 folder -- though you get a slightly larger negative from a full frame 127, which is similar size if not a litttle smaller.