Phoenix II - released 2025-07-16 - speculation and hints during the lead up

[pentaxuser]

I don't think anyone is opposed to Harman working on CN film. I think most critics are simply unhappy about the release of experimental products like Phoenix I and II.

We seem to be arguing while in total agreement This was what I thought I was saying as well. In a forum of our size and interest in making a reply with impact there may well be someone who uses the word scam when it is completely unwarranted

So if there was such a person then I accept your word for it

pentaxuser

 

[dcy]

We seem to be arguing while in total agreement This was what I thought I was saying as well.

I do think we are in total agreement. I didn't even think we were arguing. I was trying to interpret what Agulliver meant by "I don't like this so I don't want it to exist".

I probably just did a bad job at communicating.

 

[mshchem]

 

[mshchem]

Yikes!!! First attempt at Phoenix II

 

[blee1996]

Yikes!!! First attempt at Phoenix II

You have too much cyan in the photos. Have you tried scan as slide and then invert?

 

[Milpool]

It appears Harman still needs a lot more donations from y’all.

Yikes!!! First attempt at Phoenix II

 

[MattKing]

After a bit of dijitizery from a screen grab:

 

[mshchem]

After a bit of dijitizery from a screen grab:
View attachment 403587

I didn't even try, I'm sure with the right subject and a bit of wizardry it could be made to work. Fresh Flexicolor chemistry, 6x9 negative. I'm so hooked on Ektar and Portra, I don't like Kodak Gold either. Too much good Kodachrome etc growing up.

 

[koraks]

You have too much cyan in the photos. Have you tried scan as slide and then invert?

The dominant cast in the highlights is really magenta. Look at the clouds.
But the scan is FUBAR as the blue channel is clipped. It cannot really be fixed without re-scanning the negative. A presentable version can then be made, but the red will still be funny.

I'm so hooked on Ektar and Portra

Well, Phoenix doesn't come close and I really doubt Harman is ever going to get quite on the same level, ever. Ektar and Portra are seriously high-tech films in which even the slightest deviations are miraculously well-controlled.

 

[brbo]

Now we also know why Phoenix boxes are not red anymore...

 

[Agulliver]

Fiddled with it very briefly with out of date ACDsee that I have on my ancient work laptop and it's a little more pleasing. I'm unsure what colour the yield sign is in real life, but it's coming through as orange. Needs more attention in the scan. There's probably a decent photo in there with more attention to scanning and tweaking. But this just shows that Phoenix II isn't an everyday film (which we knew anyway).

 

[albireo]

View attachment 403583

Thanks for this Mshchem, can you show an example of how your Portra/Gold/Ektar scans look like in the same workflow where you got this above.

 

[perkeleellinen]

I think this is the first time I have heard this said, Steve Can I ask how authentic the colours looked? Better still can you show us examples of prints?

Thanks

pentaxuser

Sorry for delay, just seen this. I need to qualify that comment by saying i was also printing some very difficult old negatives at the time, see here:

Old Kodak Negatives - purple?

Hi All, Have a look at these negatives from the late 1960s, were those Kodak ones always purple or have they faded? I'm going to attempt printing from them tomorrow. And who made Boots Safety Film? Thanks!

www.photrio.com

I think the Phoenix took just a few attempts to get a reasonable print. This one looks a little green on my laptop screen but it doesn't have that cast in real life:

 

[Agulliver]

Worth remembering when scanning that your display screen makes a huge difference. I am currently at work with a laptop and an external monitor. I can move this browser to either and the colour rendition on each screen is significantly different. Laptop is set to my personal preferences, the monitor isn't as it needs it's brightness and contrast pushed all the way up (probably needs replacing) and that messes with what I can do with the colour balance. But any two screens of different manufacturers will look different.

 

[brbo]

I think the Phoenix took just a few attempts to get a reasonable print. This one looks a little green on my laptop screen but it doesn't have that cast in real life:

View attachment 403604

Now compare the skintone of your hand and that on the print.

I agree that printing Phoenix is as easy as any other film. But getting result as good as from any other "normal" film is not. I'd go as far as to say that it's not even possible.

 

[halfaman]

We have to encourage and support Harman efforts with Phoenix, but not the extent of confuse ourselves overrating its qualities. It is a work in progress color negative film, as Harman clearly claims, and many things still need to be addressed in all image aspects. But there is commitment and knowledge in the company to achieve the goal that will take some time.

 

[mshchem]

The dominant cast in the highlights is really magenta. Look at the clouds.
But the scan is FUBAR as the blue channel is clipped. It cannot really be fixed without re-scanning the negative. A presentable version can then be made, but the red will still be funny.


Well, Phoenix doesn't come close and I really doubt Harman is ever going to get quite on the same level, ever. Ektar and Portra are seriously high-tech films in which even the slightest deviations are miraculously well-controlled.

And Ektar is 1 USD cheaper per 120 film. I just did a quick scan 600 dpi. I don't have photoshop, too freaking time consuming..

 

[thinkbrown]

My shipment finally arrived. Looking forward to seeing how it comes out in my process

 

[pentaxuser]

mshchem, can I ask, was the colour round the edges of the sign with Yield on it that form of orange?

Thanks

pentaxuser

 

[Harry Callahan]

The funny thing is that right above the orange yield-sign it says: "Report problem or emergency 866-..." tempting me to call this number because Phoenix II does not produce proper reds...

 

[thinkbrown]

The funny thing is that right above the orange yield-sign it says: "Report problem or emergency 866-..." tempting me to call this number because Phoenix II does not produce proper reds...

I'm fairly sure the Cedar Rapids and Iowa City doesn't have any dye coupler experts on staff, but you never know

 

[mshchem]

I'm fairly sure the Cedar Rapids and Iowa City doesn't have any dye coupler experts on staff, but you never know

There was a time. Kilborn photo made Kruxo brand paper 100 years ago. George Eastman bought out Kilborn twice. If you collect real photo postcards you'd know Kruxo. All of their papers were coated in Cedar Rapids. At one time boxcars of paper left Cedar Rapids Iowa daily.

 

[thinkbrown]

There was a time. Kilborn photo made Kruxo brand paper 100 years ago. George Eastman bought out Kilborn twice. If you collect real photo postcards you'd know Kruxo. All of their papers were coated in Cedar Rapids. At one time boxcars of paper left Cedar Rapids Iowa daily.

I was talking about on railroad staff, not the cities haha. I would not be surprised if there were dye coupler experts within the cities

 

[mshchem]

 

[mshchem]

https://www.piercevaubel.com/cam/catalogs/1908kruxolp812.htm