Pentax: Two new compact film cameras planned - Pentax 17 announced June 2024
-
A
- Thread starter Henning Serger
- Start date
Recent Classifieds
-
Free Mini Radio triggers: Light pix lab Flash Q
- Started by RoboRepublic
-
Want to Buy Kodak Polytoner
- Started by Guillaume Zuili
-
For Sale PLAUBEL MAKINA 67 GRIP
- Started by Guillaume Zuili
-
For Sale FS: Gundlach-Manhattan Hyperion Diffusion 7in f/4 Lens
- Started by B.S.Kumar
Forum statistics
You're funny. No matter how you spin it, it's still not a triplet. LOL
Do you also call it's close cousin the Tessar a triplet? Do you call a Dagor a doublet because its six elements are cemented into two groups?
Derived from a triplet doesn't mean it's a triplet.
You're grasping at straws to "prove" that you're right.
Last edited:
C330 has automatic shutter so no fully manual
I have 2 Mamiya TLRs and don't know what you mean by automatic shutter.
Well, I have to say, it would be news to Leitz and Leica if the venerable Elmar is not a triplet!
Last edited:
MattKing
Moderator
I'm guessing it is a reference to automatic shutter cocking - so not entirely manual.
Oh, I figured that had to be it. There ain't no motor doing it so I consider that entirely manual. It just happens to be built into the film advance mechanism. I have a C33 and a C220. My first C33 (since passed on to my hopefully soon-to-be ex-son-in-law) had the connecting parts removed and upon purchasing a second that still had it, I found it to be such a pain in the ass that I removed it. Besides, in this context, how would it be any less "manual" to a college kid just because it isn't a separate step?
2024.06.11 Update information about PENTAX Film Camera Project
"We sincerely appreciate your support and patronage of RICOH IMAGING COMPANY. We are pleased to inform you that we will release the latest update video about our film camera development on our YouTube channel at 5 a.m. on June 18 (Japan Standard Time)."
"We sincerely appreciate your support and patronage of RICOH IMAGING COMPANY. We are pleased to inform you that we will release the latest update video about our film camera development on our YouTube channel at 5 a.m. on June 18 (Japan Standard Time)."
I am sure we are all aware of the Kodak branded H35. It's a fun camera but it's a toy compared to the Pentax 17. In terms of features, sophistication and probably build quality the two are not comparable.
I noticed you didn't mention image quality -- or define "toy". I'm sure some will consider the Pentax 17 a toy, for no other reason than ANY half-frame is consider not "serious" by some -- certainly not me!
Last edited:
Pedantry is not persuasive.
By your definition do you call a Dagor a doublet?
I am not familiar with all lens types.
Granted, the Elmar is a modified triplet, if you think that is a more accurate description. But the fact remains that the practical lens type is a triplet, and it has always been classed thus by Leitz and many volumes on the history of lens design (like the description and diagrams I included in post #298).
MattKing
Moderator
Depends on the pedant.
I'm a charter member of the "pedantry for all" group. It is a subset of the "Lifelong Learning League", and associated with a number of groups that love word play.
Depends on the pedant.
I'm a charter member of the "pedantry for all" group. It is a subset of the "Lifelong Learning League", and associated with a number of groups that love word play.
Often times the pedant is correct, but occasionally veers off into obfuscation, gaslighting and strawman fallacies.
- Joined
- Oct 26, 2015
- Messages
- 6,743
- Format
- 35mm
Aaaand we're off in the weeds. Like I said, classic APUG thread.
Most other film spaces online seem pretty excited about this Pentax camera.
Most other film spaces online seem pretty excited about this Pentax camera.
MattKing
Moderator
Hey, I think the camera looks like it may be great, because it will be both available as a new item - which helps fill an important shortfall in the market - and should offer better results than the other options available new.
It is very difficult for most of the people on this website to put ourselves into the mindset of the target market for this.
Ironically, I expect that it is my now quite dated retail sales experience that helps me do that, because I used to make my living gauging the knowledge and interests of inexperienced potential customers, and helping them find solutions.
During many of the same the years that I was working with medium format cameras and doing colour printing for photography studios, I was also selling 110 and point-and-shoot 35mm cameras to inexperienced users, as well as helping them obtain inexpensive photo-finishing results that they liked.
Of course I was also selling to much more advanced users, who could make good use and fully appreciate cameras like the Canon A-1 and high end Canon lenses.
These new Pentax offerings are targeted toward potential customers that are somewhat similar to the former type of user, not the latter. And whether or not they are a success is more likely to be related to how well they are marketed than what features they incorporate - that and how successful Ricoh/Pentax are at finding reasonable cost solutions to how to competently manufacture them, in the quantities that will sell.
It is very difficult for most of the people on this website to put ourselves into the mindset of the target market for this.
Ironically, I expect that it is my now quite dated retail sales experience that helps me do that, because I used to make my living gauging the knowledge and interests of inexperienced potential customers, and helping them find solutions.
During many of the same the years that I was working with medium format cameras and doing colour printing for photography studios, I was also selling 110 and point-and-shoot 35mm cameras to inexperienced users, as well as helping them obtain inexpensive photo-finishing results that they liked.
Of course I was also selling to much more advanced users, who could make good use and fully appreciate cameras like the Canon A-1 and high end Canon lenses.
These new Pentax offerings are targeted toward potential customers that are somewhat similar to the former type of user, not the latter. And whether or not they are a success is more likely to be related to how well they are marketed than what features they incorporate - that and how successful Ricoh/Pentax are at finding reasonable cost solutions to how to competently manufacture them, in the quantities that will sell.
I ordered a half frame negative carrier for my Beseler 4x5 enlargers. So I guess that shows how I feel. I think it's great!
I hope it does well. I hope it offers great results and has enough features at a low enough price to attract a large enough audience. That's a tough recipe to fill, and I have my fingers crossed. At this point most of what has been said is conjecture.
From my point of view, it is a big disappointment that this is the magnificent return to film cameras by a company like Pentax. A half-frame camera with a gimmick marketing campaign (use it like a smartphone!). I would have expected more from them.
But even from the point of view of the target customer, I think Pentax have misjudged this. I think the people who are obsessed with smartphones and want to try film because it is trendy are happy with things like Fujifilm Instax and the inexpensive Kodak half-frame cameras.
For the people new to film, with a genuine interest and willing to invest several hundred dollars, I think they want a more traditional 35mm camera. Even if it is a compact camera, I think something of more classic form and format has a better chance of success.
At the same time, I do hope it is a successful camera for Pentax, and that they can then move on to making more traditional film cameras again.
But even from the point of view of the target customer, I think Pentax have misjudged this. I think the people who are obsessed with smartphones and want to try film because it is trendy are happy with things like Fujifilm Instax and the inexpensive Kodak half-frame cameras.
For the people new to film, with a genuine interest and willing to invest several hundred dollars, I think they want a more traditional 35mm camera. Even if it is a compact camera, I think something of more classic form and format has a better chance of success.
At the same time, I do hope it is a successful camera for Pentax, and that they can then move on to making more traditional film cameras again.
I don't think they are aiming for people who are obsessed with smart phones, rather, they are considering a market that is used to vertical images and videos because of smartphones.
Take a look at r/analog, a reddit community of over 2 million users that shoot film and post images. At least half of the images are vertical and since very few are using half frame cameras, they are having to turn their cameras on the side. Now imagine they can buy a new camera that takes vertical images as a default. Those shooters will be thrilled. Let's hope Pentax follows through with a quality product, then they'll have no problem selling it.
I personally like a horizontal frame better, and have a Fuji GS645S that I seldom use because of that, but my wife who is a much better photographer than I loves it because she shoots vertical most of the time.
Take a look at r/analog, a reddit community of over 2 million users that shoot film and post images. At least half of the images are vertical and since very few are using half frame cameras, they are having to turn their cameras on the side. Now imagine they can buy a new camera that takes vertical images as a default. Those shooters will be thrilled. Let's hope Pentax follows through with a quality product, then they'll have no problem selling it.
I personally like a horizontal frame better, and have a Fuji GS645S that I seldom use because of that, but my wife who is a much better photographer than I loves it because she shoots vertical most of the time.
Last edited:
But that is the thing. It is easy enough to shoot a vertical format picture with a traditional camera. People have done it for generations. Why create a camera specifically geared toward the vertical format but with more limited appeal rather than the traditional camera that will appeal to everyone.
The big sticking point, I think, is taking smartphones into account at all. This is what I feel is a big mistake. Nobody turns toward the analog pursuits because they want it to be like the modern digital technologies. They turn toward the analog pursuits because they want a different experience. In addition to the beautiful and physical results on film, the traditional film camera experience is the desire.
The classics have perennial appeal. Leica has made essentially the same camera for 70 years, and it has outlasted every other 35mm camera.
Last edited:
They certainly won't have much competition.
But that is the thing. It is easy enough to shoot a horizontal format picture with a half frame camera. People have done it for generations. Why create a camera specifically geared toward the horizontal format, but with more limited appeal, rather than a half frame camera that will appeal to young people who prefer a vertical picture.
Ask yourself, how do most young people view a photograph? On their phone, vertically.
Ask yourself, how do most young people view a photograph? On their phone, vertically.
One of the reasons "LOMO" (I use quotes because not at cameras that create "LOMO"-type pictures have the LOMO name) is popular is because they don't create, what we normally thing of as, great pictures. Almost Polaroid-like in softness, and usually with light fall-off, flare, you-name-it. They even sell all sorts of funky films (and funky flashes) which sometimes mimic color IR. The Pentax 17 might not be FUNKY ENOUGH for some!
For all the reasons I have already listed
And, despite the clever reverse rephrasing, I don't think the traditional 35mm format camera would have more limited appeal. As I mentioned, the classics have perennial appeal and are why people turn toward the analog pursuits.
| Photrio.com contains affiliate links to products. We may receive a commission for purchases made through these links. To read our full affiliate disclosure statement please click Here. |
PHOTRIO PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:  |