Now that's what I call a perfect example of "some old rusty mechanical relic" -- that will still be working LONG after I'm gone.
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Pentax: Two new compact film cameras planned - Pentax 17 announced June 2024
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Now that's what I call a perfect example of "some old rusty mechanical relic" -- that will still be working LONG after I'm gone.
I mean I'll readily admit my take was slightly hyperbolic and both mechanical and electronic can fail as someone rightly pointed out - however..
A Wisner Technical 4x5.
Two metal frames holding a leather bellows and a pair of rails to get the two square frames closer to or farther from each other. That's basically it.
No shutter, no lens, no focusing helicoid, no film pressure plate, no film advance mechanism. No gears, no dials.
Come on now. It would be weird it it weren't still 'working' when you're gone.
It's an extremely simple thing, very far removed from the aging, failing and complex mechanical 35mm cameras people are mentioning as a 'better' alternative to the Pentax 17.
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With the mechanical cameras, if they are taken care of and used regularly but not hammered....they tend to keep going. Also the more simple mechanical cameras tend to be the longest lived. When was the last time any of us came across a box camera that was in decent condition and couldn't be coaxed into taking photos. My small collection of 1930s MF folders has never let anyone down and some are pushing 100 years old now. The only one that ever failed was a bottom of the line Ensign....and I bet I could fix that if I were brave.
However, mechanical cameras discovered after 40 years of neglect often need a CLA at least. Meanwhile electronics can fail at any time, especially older electronics. But some of us get lucky.
One of the attractions of the Pentax 17 is that it is new, has spare parts guarantee for some years, and of course has a warranty.
However, mechanical cameras discovered after 40 years of neglect often need a CLA at least. Meanwhile electronics can fail at any time, especially older electronics. But some of us get lucky.
One of the attractions of the Pentax 17 is that it is new, has spare parts guarantee for some years, and of course has a warranty.
pbromaghin
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I had played with various Rolleis in used camera stores over the years and wondered what was so great about them. Then I happened across one like you describe. I bought it immediately for the most I've ever paid for a camera. It is absolutely wonderful.
Might be of interest to someone interested in getting a Pentax 17:
us.ricoh-imaging.com
Chris
PENTAX 17 - REFURBISHED - $349.95 - Ricoh
The PENTAX 17 is a half-frame camera, capturing two 17mm x 24mm pictures within in a single 35mm-format (36mm x 24mm) film frame. It produces vertical-format pictures with similar ratios to those captured by smartphones, and with the distinctive image quality created only by a film camera. The...
Chris
multivoiced
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Disconnekt
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Mpb has a few on their site for $409:
On the other hand, they can suffer in the hands of idiots.
I have an immediate pre-war Linhof Standard 9x12 which is in perfect working order except some eejit stripped the geared thread on the front riser.
It's not terminal, the camera is still useable, but it's really annoying and not repairable by simply buying another part - if I were equipped to do it, I could make one, after a great deal of faffing around.
On the other, other hand, since I fell into my very small collection of Linhofs entirely by chance and accident, I have a 4x5 Technika III on which everything works perfectly and after a lifetime of pro work and it being consigned to a cupboard for a couple of decades before I bought it, it needed nothing to get it back into use.
Using it is a joy, it's just so well made and feels precise. Proper craftsmanship at a high price. You get what you pay for.
The 17 has been around for two years.
I saw on EBAY about a dozen new listings for USED 17's -- TODAY -- so I wanted to see if this was a sign of waning interest, i.e. people "dumping" their cameras.
So I dug a little deeper. There are about three dozen USED 17's listed on EBAY on any day, and the asking prices are all over the place form $200 to $1,200. They usually sell for between $350-450. So it seems that while plenty of users are selling their camera, there are still plenty of people interested in buying them.
Anyone know if Pentax is still making them? I assume not.
When they eventually get down to the price of an AGAT 18 I might bite the bullet.
I saw on EBAY about a dozen new listings for USED 17's -- TODAY -- so I wanted to see if this was a sign of waning interest, i.e. people "dumping" their cameras.
So I dug a little deeper. There are about three dozen USED 17's listed on EBAY on any day, and the asking prices are all over the place form $200 to $1,200. They usually sell for between $350-450. So it seems that while plenty of users are selling their camera, there are still plenty of people interested in buying them.
Anyone know if Pentax is still making them? I assume not.
When they eventually get down to the price of an AGAT 18 I might bite the bullet.
Thwyllo
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You can still buy them new in Europe for between €425 and €550, the more expensive options come with a couple of rolls of film. But there are dozens for sale in second hand sites, the vast majority apparently "like new" which tells you everything you need to know and pretty much what I expected.
mshchem
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A nice SLR would be cool. Reality is a brick wall. When there's mint used autofocus SLRs selling for a couple bucks......
Nitroplait
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It is batch production not a running assembly line. Pentax may run another batch if they found the demand meeting or exceeding their expectations.
The shop where I work has discounted the stock of new 17 cameras quite a bit from the original list price. Also the shop has made a special offer with a handful of film rolls with the camera purchase for just a little more than the regular price of camera alone, to sweeten the deal.
In other words, not selling like a influencer hotcake, and below shop expectations - but I have no idea if it is above or below Pentax expectations.
Thwyllo
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Well it's kind of typical Pentax isn't it....slightly off the wall ideas (viz Pentax Q which I love) but never any notification of number of units sold, just as with their APSC monochrome. So they can puff it up all they like without fear of contradiction.
4season
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For me, the novelty of Pentax 17 wore off some time ago, and considering that I've owned it for more than a year, that seems about right. What initially felt like my shiniest new retro-toy, now feels like another picture-taking tool. But as a tool, it's pretty good and thrifty.
Which camera manufacturers give hard sales data?
Thwyllo
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Not quite the point is it .. other manufacturers don't tend to engage in the sort of preening that Pentax is given to. Their whole product lineup is out of kilter to be honest, and in an age when DSLRs are all but dead, their last mirrorless was what, the dreadful K-01? Sorry but with the one exception I'm just not a Pentax fanboy.
Anecdotally it seems to be the most successful "new", non-toy film camera out of the bunch. Lomography's new camera shipped with a lot of problems and MiNT's Rollei 35AF seems to just not be popular for some reason?
I think what this says is that a whole generation+ of people are used to the bargain-bin prices vintage film cameras go for, and a fixed-lens half-frame is hard to stomach at market prices, even with the film revival. There's just too many sub-$100 SLRs and P&Ses out there that are still working. Maybe in 10ish years when we hit the failure cliff for 90s P&Ses the business case will be stronger.
I think what this says is that a whole generation+ of people are used to the bargain-bin prices vintage film cameras go for, and a fixed-lens half-frame is hard to stomach at market prices, even with the film revival. There's just too many sub-$100 SLRs and P&Ses out there that are still working. Maybe in 10ish years when we hit the failure cliff for 90s P&Ses the business case will be stronger.
Thwyllo
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Couldn't agree more...€500 here buys at least half a dozen decent film cameras with prime lenses....but then we live in a world of instant gratification these days don't we and heaven forbid we have to find out how to clean a lens or replace seals
cmacd123
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I think that the bargain basement is no longer well stocked. cameras like the minolta x-700 or canon elan 7, or even the pentax645, all have climbed close to the original retail price. a few years ago, an elan 7 went for under 50 bucks for a working body.
brian steinberger
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This is what I think too. But as for someone stepping up in 10 years I’m not sure I see it. Much of the film know-how is already gone from these companies. In 10 years no one is going to be around that can help in making cameras to the same high standard they once were. I’m afraid any attempt would be sub standard, which is what we’re seeing now.
I would love to see Pentax re-release the Pentax 645. I’m assuming it would be atleast $2000 for a body only and I would be willing to pay that, excited actually, to purchase a new medium format camera. I’m not a pessimist, but I just don’t ever see this happening.
I got the Pentax 17 as soon as it was available, and appreciate the design, build quality and feature set. And I believe the retail price is reasonable and fair.
I'm guilty as lots of people here who have too many cameras. So I have not used the Pentax 17 that much since the early days. If it were my only camera, it could serve me well. However as yet another camera, I would probably spend the money on something else.
I'm guilty as lots of people here who have too many cameras. So I have not used the Pentax 17 that much since the early days. If it were my only camera, it could serve me well. However as yet another camera, I would probably spend the money on something else.
Kodachromeguy
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Of all the major companies, I think Pentax/Ricoh would be the only one to pull it off at a marketable price. They still have shutter manufacturing capacity for their DSLR cameras. But the tooling for the frame, film backs, lens mounts...figure on $5000 at least. Consider, a Leica M6 is $7000, and it did not need much R&D or new production equipment. Let's see if it ever happens.
brian steinberger
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Yea you’re probably right. I actually looked up the price of the Pentax 645Nii when released and it was around $2200. I also looked up the Mamiya 645E and it was under $1000. But overall I think the price of this “future camera” is the least of our worries if it never happens.
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