On Being A Professional Photogapher...Tell us your story, please...

faberryman · Oct 23, 2018

jtk said:
Of course "getting paid counts as being a pro." If a pro wants, and is reasonably good, more work may follow. That's a lot more honorable than wandering the streets, hoping to photograph yet another lake or tree, or homeless victim or awkward street-crosser in the name of "hobby,: IMO of course. .

More honorable being a pro than a hobbyist?

John51 · Oct 26, 2018

faberryman said:
More honorable being a pro than a hobbyist?

What I would term a pro is somebody that acquired equipment in order to practice their art.

I sold photos in order to acquire equipment. When suffering from GAS plus empty pockets, needs must...

faberryman · Oct 26, 2018

John51 said:
What I would term a pro is somebody that acquired equipment in order to practice their art.

We all bought a camera. Not sure how that make one a professional, but whatever floats your boat.

Pieter12 · Oct 26, 2018

I know many professional staff photographers who do no own the equipment they use. In my book, a professional photographer is someone who takes photos for money. A good pro will make a living from photography and will deliver consistently on assignment. I have met many professional photographers whose work was all over the place and stayed in business or on staff through personal relationships or sometimes just being the only one around. "Pro" doesn't designate quality or artistry.

Pieter12 · Oct 26, 2018

As an addendum, many independent pros don't own the equipment they use. They rent. High-end digital cameras and lenses, studio strobes, computer gear and software are ridiculously expensive. And one can go deep into debt trying to keep up with the latest. A lot of clients expect top-end gear to be used, no excuses. Also, rental charges can be passed on to the client. Sometimes pros will charge rental for their own gear as well as their own facilities, but that doesn't always go over well with cost controllers.

mshchem · Oct 26, 2018

I'm not a pro. As a kid I would hang out with pros mostly learning darkroom work. There was a lot of these guys who learned photography in the military. Guys that were in the Navy or Air Force. I learned the most from my Dad, when he was in Pharmacy school, they learned compounding (he graduated in 1941) One of the chores for the college of pharmacy at the University of Iowa was making, X-ray developer, surgical soaps, all sorts of medical stuff.
There was a top secret program during WWI to make Aspirin, it was still under Bayer patent, the British prevented German exports. Iowa made huge quantities, not sure how or if it made it out of the state.

In the old days it was the pharmacy in town that often was the only photo shop.

jtk · Oct 27, 2018

faberryman said:
More honorable being a pro than a hobbyist?[/QUOT

Pieter12 said:

I know many professional staff photographers who do no own the equipment they use. In my book, a professional photographer is someone who takes photos for money. A good pro will make a living from photography and will deliver consistently on assignment. I have met many professional photographers whose work was all over the place and stayed in business or on staff through personal relationships or sometimes just being the only one around. "Pro" doesn't designate quality or artistry.

Click to expand...

IMO "Pro" certainly does designate qualit, per client requirements.

"Artistry" is such a vague term that it doesn't mean anything in this context.

jtk · Nov 9, 2018

faberryman said:
More honorable being a pro than a hobbyist?

That's what faberryman said, twisting my meaning.

I do think it's more honorable to live intentionally, photographing intentionally, than to wander in aimless hope.

I don't think serious amateurs often describe themselves as "hobbiests"... If they're serious (honorable) many may aspire to art.

faberryman · Nov 9, 2018

jtk said:
That's what faberryman said, twisting my meaning.

I do think it's more honorable to live intentionally, photographing intentionally, than to wander in aimless hope.

I don't think serious amateurs often describe themselves as "hobbiests"... If they're serious (honorable) many may aspire to art.

Hobbiest, amateur, serious amateur are all just names, and tell you little about an individual's commitment and craft. I wouldn't be making judgments based on them.

jtk · Nov 9, 2018

faberryman said:
Hobbiest, amateur, serious amateur are all just names, and tell you little about an individual's commitment and craft. I wouldn't be making judgments based on them.

OK with me. Do you ever make any judgements?

IMO words count. Are you allowed to distinguish between good work and trite work? How about realistically professional compared "hobbiest" with digital portfolio or demonstrable professional skills?

Art is a parallel question. Do "hobbiests" create art? I think they do...at least in this era.

removed account4 · Nov 24, 2018

faberryman said:
Hobbiest, amateur, serious amateur are all just names, and tell you little about an individual's commitment and craft. I wouldn't be making judgments based on them.

yup
and i know of some pros who have no idea how to operate a camera they just "direct" their assistants to do everything
and i know of some amateurs/serious amateurs/hobbiests who could probably out shoot some of the working pros i know of too ...
but then again some pros only work in 1 genre ( portrait/product &c ) just like some a/sa/h (still life/erotic nude/landscape)
in the end it is a game of rock paper scissors between2 people with no hands.

jtk · Nov 25, 2018

I don't "know of" pros ( make good livings with photography) who are unskilled (maybe that's a regional thing?) and I don't "know of" any who are narrowly skilled...tho many do enjoy particular sweet spots. That's just good business, same as with surgeons and auto mechanics.

For me, "pro" means "successful," not failed, not former, not wannabe. .

I made a great living for a long time with studio and technical photography, quit because I stopped enjoying it, started a new career that became a very successful recruiting business. Both were quick and easy to start, both bought houses, neither was carried along by another job, by some retirement plan, or by family,

I don't know or care enough in digital technology to seriously do 21st century professional photography and I'm happy with my decisions. I'm into decisions.

If someone prefers to be called a "hobbiest" that's fine with me. I apologize for earlier comments about that. Me, I'd rather be called an "amateur".

removed account4 · Nov 25, 2018

no its not
specialized like a ninja
and ... not a jack of all trades.
yes know of, not directly but friends of friends, and world renown pros they assisted ... LOL !!
i don't say i KNOW someone unless i KNOW them <still>
is it a regional thing to say you know someone when you don't ... ?
this should help make things make more sense
cause THESE GUYS are PROS !

NB23 · Nov 25, 2018

I’m a pro and all I can tell you is that I’m fed up.

Shot anywhere from 200k to 500k shots per year.

Pieter12 · Nov 25, 2018

NB23 said:
I’m a pro and all I can tell you is that I’m fed up.

Shot anywhere from 200k to 500k shots per year.

1. Fed up with what? This discussion about being a pro or being a pro or photography in general?

2. Film? That's 15-40 rolls a day, 365 days a year!

NB23 · Nov 25, 2018

Pieter12 said:
1. Fed up with what? This discussion about being a pro or being a pro or photography in general?

2. Film? That's 15-40 rolls a day, 365 days a year!

Fed up with shooting professionally.

Digital, of course.

I shoot about 250 rolls per year.

Pieter12 · Nov 25, 2018

NB23 said:
Fed up with shooting professionally.

Digital, of course.

I shoot about 250 rolls per year.

Sorry to hear that. Let me guess--bad clients trying to take advantage of the photographer, not wanting to pay, or just not understanding what is involved.

NB23 · Nov 25, 2018

Pieter12 said:
Sorry to hear that. Let me guess--bad clients trying to take advantage of the photographer, not wanting to pay, or just not understanding what is involved.

Noooo :-D

Simply tired.

jtk · Nov 26, 2018

It's amusing that some folks need, for their own reasons, to assume the worst about clients and about professional photography. My experience it was a lot of fun for a decade. My idea of life involves decision making: I decided to pull the plug on professional photography pretty near my peak, took a year or two off (cabin in wine country) and started fresh with what became a successful headhunting business (similar in many ways to photo business).

My kind of professional photography (solo, working with agencies and designers) may be mostly a young person's biz but Avedon and other heroes stayed young until very old age. Lots of money to be made, romantic (nice word for a reality). Respect from people I like (e.g. graphic designers, art directors, clients. Never had any issues about payment, always charged mid-market.

I don't know anything about salaried professionals because I've only discovered a few in photography and in their hearts of hearts those wished they could work for themselves.

Some photographers do stick with that game longer than my decade and my hat's off to them. It can become repetitive, can be hard work. They earn respect.

It's real work, smart work, not a gamble, but this song occurs to me:

http://www.metrolyrics.com/the-gambler-lyrics-kenny-rogers.html

removed account4 · Nov 27, 2018

lots of these jobs advertised locally if one wants to be a pro...
https://boston.craigslist.org/search/crs?query=photographer
nothing like working minimum wage, and not gettin taxes taken out until taxes are due !

jtk · Nov 27, 2018

jtk · Nov 28, 2018

removed account4 · Nov 28, 2018

more craigs list jobs, only 3 today
https://boston.craigslist.org/search/nos/med?query=photographer
a couple more on "guru"
https://www.guru.com/d/jobs/q/photographer/
at least a couple of the ones on guru seem to pay a little better

KenS · Nov 28, 2018

jtk said:
Ken, great story! Question: if you wanted to be a professional today, how would you go about it? Would you free-lance? Or you think there are photo opportunities like the ones you enjoyed for a younger version of you today?

First off, You might have better better chances by being in the 'right place at the 'right time' with a portfolio
showing your photography skills in a variety of images that might meet the needs of the position in which you are interested. I was one of the 'lucky' ones having been making photographs and having a portfolio showing the best of my skills/knowledge...and 'ability to meet the needed requirements. It could often be the result of being in the 'right place at the 'right time'. Nowadays I would never consider going 'free-lance'.... there's too much 'competition' from those who 'just wanna-be's' who don't really have the skills derived from experience
in the needed 'field'... but seem to have the 'feeling' it would just 'great' to be seen stomping around with the latest and greatest of camera equipment hanging around their necks. I was somewhat 'lucky' to have a some-what proven 'skills' (and ability) with a portfolio that 'proved' I knew what I was 'doing' with all camera formats
(as well as having hard-copy prints and 'slides' as 'proof' of it... both behind the camera AND in the darkroom.
All too often it is being in the 'right place' at the 'right time' when a position comes 'open/available'..and you can 'prove that you ARE the best person to 'fill their needs'... their 'needs' might require either a 'formal' education.. or past experience that 'proves' you are ready and willing to be proven their best possible choice.

Now well and truly 'retired' from a challenging career, (actually 'downsized with the acceptance of the ease
of 'digital' and the fact that they needed the 'space' I occupied rather than my 'proven abilities'.. [Two darkrooms, a 'Stat camera' room and a well-equiped studio after my employer closed another research facility and were in need of 'floor-space' for those employees from that closed-down facility.
I found that my earning my BFA degree as a 'senior citizen') would NOT have placed me in a position where I might apply the skills and knowledge gained over the years of experience of the 'doing'.

Ken

jtk · Nov 29, 2018

KenS said:
First off, You might have better better chances by being in the 'right place at the 'right time' with a portfolio
showing your photography skills in a variety of images that might meet the needs of the position in which you are interested. I was one of the 'lucky' ones having been making photographs and having a portfolio showing the best of my skills/knowledge...and 'ability to meet the needed requirements. It could often be the result of being in the 'right place at the 'right time'. Nowadays I would never consider going 'free-lance'.... there's too much 'competition' from those who 'just wanna-be's' who don't really have the skills derived from experience
in the needed 'field'... but seem to have the 'feeling' it would just 'great' to be seen stomping around with the latest and greatest of camera equipment hanging around their necks. I was somewhat 'lucky' to have a some-what proven 'skills' (and ability) with a portfolio that 'proved' I knew what I was 'doing' with all camera formats
(as well as having hard-copy prints and 'slides' as 'proof' of it... both behind the camera AND in the darkroom.
All too often it is being in the 'right place' at the 'right time' when a position comes 'open/available'..and you can 'prove that you ARE the best person to 'fill their needs'... their 'needs' might require either a 'formal' education.. or past experience that 'proves' you are ready and willing to be proven their best possible choice.

Now well and truly 'retired' from a challenging career, (actually 'downsized with the acceptance of the ease
of 'digital' and the fact that they needed the 'space' I occupied rather than my 'proven abilities'.. [Two darkrooms, a 'Stat camera' room and a well-equiped studio after my employer closed another research facility and were in need of 'floor-space' for those employees from that closed-down facility.
I found that my earning my BFA degree as a 'senior citizen') would NOT have placed me in a position where I might apply the skills and knowledge gained over the years of experience of the 'doing'.

Ken

Ken, thanks. There certainly are a bunch of issues related to "latest and greatest equipment." I think those mostly afflict the gear-heads among us, rather than having anything to do with clients or the opportunities. Professional photography is, after all about clients.

For Photrio, which is a mixed film and digital forum, it's important to recognize the the POSITIVE impact of digital photography, which happily has especially focused attention on the merits of the image itself (as "art" and/or commercial illustration). Professional photographers do better work, on balance, than they did a couple of decades ago. The examples are all around us. The client's aren't blind and they're not as stupid as some on Photrio somehow need to assert.

I was very successful in studio specialization in carefully staged and lit food and a variety of other themes as well as location photos involving studio-type light. I also did a lot of highly demanding technical work (macro, multi-exposure, tricky lighting). I intentionally avoided portraiture and, especially, work related to fashion. Advertising agency art directors liked my personal graphic design capability, which they could see in my work . Some liked my poor man's Irving Penn lighting, which was trendy (Norman strobes, soft boxes, reflectors and/or daylight).

My portfolio consisted mostly of tear sheets (actual magazine/catalog pages) and a few prints that displayed unique illustrative techniques (sometimes gave favorites prints as promos ..always brought more work). Clients were rarely interested in my cameras (mostly Canon F1 and Toyo G view camera ) . For obvious reasons clients were always interested in portfolio examples that related to their needs.

I gave that a good run for about ten years, having gotten assignments within weeks of showing portfolio (initially formal architecture). I wasn't a great photo artist but I was a very hard worker and was totally reliable. Never lacked work. I walked away at a high point mostly because I'd done what I hoped to do and have always been oriented toward change. No negatives, except that I'm not very social and didn't want to hang out with clients.

I think it's wonderful when someone puts her/his heart into WORKING to become a professional photographer, It's to be expected that some will fail. Same with working at McDonalds or some corporate job.

On Being A Professional Photogapher...Tell us your story, please...

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