On Being A Professional Photogapher...Tell us your story, please...

[removed account4]

How about reviving your advice from 2008 ? If it worked for you back then it'd be good today. Right?

i never made a post in this thread ... in 2008 ... i posted in 2006 and 2018

your experiences as a professional photographer seem to have been similar to your experience with publishers. Maybe I've misread your recent complaint about agents

yes, you misread - i have no complaints about agents or publishers .

kermit is a fast typist

 

[jtk]

It would be fun to read about careers of happy and successful pros.

Given that "everybody's a photographer" these days, the courage to make direct contacts may be more crucial than it was at any time in the past...when everybody wasn't a photographer.

 

[jtk]

When you figure out that social media, especially LinkedIn, is useless for free-lancers intent on new business:

Classy brew pubs and tap rooms, where young and middle-age entrepreneurs get together in modern times, and do find graphic design, signage, craftwork (e.g. cabinetry), motion picture, recording crafts, and...hang onto your hats..photography. Those folks are proud of their work and will be happy to meet you...if your work is comparable to theirs in terms of professional intent.

Photrio's usual suspects will make a joke, but don't let tales of their own failure and their hot air about the death of face-to-face and hand-shaking due to digital media prevent you from checking this out.

Make 20oz of good India Pale Ale last 45 minutes before you leave, while starting to learn who's who and where the action is. But do shake hands and show prints first. Courage to try this will pay off. Visit a half dozen of the kinds of places I described, drive safely when you leave after tipping generously, and go back occasionally.

In Sometimes A Great Notion, Ken Kesey wrote "root, hog, or die."

 

[jtk]

It would be fun to read about careers of happy and successful pros.

Given that "everybody's a photographer" these days, the courage to make direct contacts may be more crucial than it was at any time in the past...when everybody wasn't a photographer.

The key word is "courage."

 

[Mainecoonmaniac]

No stories from me, but some advice. If you don't want to wreck your hobby, stay an amateur.

 

[jtk]

No stories from me, but some advice. If you don't want to wreck your hobby, stay an amateur.

This OT is about professional photography, not about hobbies.

There are better forums for knitting and stamp collecting.

Ask a real professional if s/he enjoys the profession. It has ups and downs, but it's more satisfying than working for a boss and wishing you had tried.

 

[Pieter12]

This OT is about professional photography, not about hobbies.

There are better forums for knitting and stamp collecting.

Ask a real professional if s/he enjoys the profession. It has ups and downs, but it's more satisfying than working for a boss and wishing you had tried.

(That's assuming the professional works for him/herself. Even today, there are still pros who work on staff for companies that have a photo department or division. Many of those made the decision to trade the /sometimes/ creative freedom and possibility of higher rates for the stability of a regular paycheck with benefits.)

 

[faberryman]

Ask a real professional if s/he enjoys the profession. It has ups and downs, but it's more satisfying than working for a boss and wishing you had tried.

I thought you gave up free lance professional photography because you didn't like working for clients.

 

[dasBlute]

This OT is about professional photography, not about hobbies.
There are better forums for knitting and stamp collecting.

one of the more insulting statements I've seen here

 

[KenS]

I want to know how Jovo became a big fiddle player.

I'm tempted to suggest that "he kept eating more than he should have"

...but I won't [. . ]

Ken

 

[jtk]

(That's assuming the professional works for him/herself. Even today, there are still pros who work on staff for companies that have a photo department or division. Many of those made the decision to trade the /sometimes/ creative freedom and possibility of higher rates for the stability of a regular paycheck with benefits.)

No doubt you're right. But as we all know, there are many more successful free-lancers in every region than there are "pros who work on staff for companies that have a photo department or division." Striking out on one's own does require different energies. Maybe you would tell us about that?

How about contributing something about your own professional experience with salaried staff positions. Photrio members include some genuinely great journalists, even today, for example.

By the way, if one is successful as a free-lancer one often arranges his/her own benefits (retirement plan, healh plan etc).

 

[jtk]

one of the more insulting statements I've seen here

Who does that insult? Hobbiests?

This thread is about profession, not about hobby. Photrio isn't exclusively for hobbiests. When people here are asked about "favorite photographers" they virtually always list pros, virtually never list hobbiests. Is that insulting?

 

[KenS]

At the 'ripe' old age of 12 my neighbour (a somewhat 'retired pro) a couple of houses away was out photographing some roses in his front yard. I enquired as to what he was 'doing" and he replied that he was making a photograph of one of his roses... and I was invited to have a look under the darkcloth. later I was invited to do a little 'assisting' in his bedroom 'studio' where he photographed 'new' dinnerware and cutlery settings and I got to 'pin' on the wall the strips of coloured paper that provided an 'darker edge' (by reflection) to the 'separate the flatware. I was 'hooked" and that got me 'started'... But I was kicked out of the photography club in school after I 'Somehow' forgot to turn on the outside light to indicate when 120 film was being tray developed to one of the female students... and the teacher walked right in. Of course we were both startled and
jumped around with a 'Hey' we're tray developing... and then were both accused of a 'something else'.

I continued to assist my neighbour.. but on leaving school could not 'see' making a living as a photographer.. and started my practicum as an "Agricultural student".. two years later started Agricultural College
graduated and worked as a dairyman looking after 45-60 cows as well as the field work... eventually deciding to spread my wings and worked my passage to Canadian soil witba 2year old Clydesdale 'filly' 13 Hereford cows.. and 4 Landrace pigs
I got back into doing photography at a University Biology department doing AV work and with film, recording the results of research. I was invited to apply for a position with Agriculture Canada providing AV visuals, travelling across the country to photograph "farmers at work". That programme 'died' and managed to transfer
to Canada's largest Agriculture research facility. I passed the written and 'practical' exams and got my "Board Certification as a "Registered Biological Photographer" for quite a number of years.. . an later was 'honoured'
by being elected a 'Fellow' of the Association. A number of years later, the arrival and "advent" of the ease of the new digital, Staff could 'do for themselves' and I was layed off. A few years later my multi-degreed daughter challenged me as a 'pensioner to 'go and do' my BFA at the local university. In 2014 I graduated (at the ripe old age of 74)... and as a 'senior citizen, The Province of Alberta payed the 'bill'... I only had to supplied my materials, enthusiasm and 'ability'.
I'm still quite active both under the large format camera's dark cloth (4x5 and 8x10, weather allowing) and in my home dark- room where I now print 'mostly' in the archaic alternative print processes using my 'home built'
UV light source.

Ken

 

[jtk]

I thought you gave up free lance professional photography because you didn't like working for clients.

Yes, approximately true. However I didn't "give up" so much as quit (and sold lots of equipment) ...after 10+ years of success. At that point I switched to recruiting, which was similar and even more successful. After a long time with that I retired. My brewpub rap above describes a reality that seems like a wide-open, fun photo opportunity. Thought it'd be good to share that.

Many waste lives in dead-end jobs and might trade what they call "security" for the ups and downs of free-lance. Just what I'm told. fayberry, what's your experience with this question?

 

[faberryman]

Yes, approximately true. However I didn't "give up" so much as quit (and sold lots of equipment) ...after 10+ years of success. At that point I switched to recruiting, which was similar and even more successful. After a long time with that I retired. My brewpub rap above describes a reality that seems like a wide-open, fun photo opportunity. Thought it'd be good to share that.

Many waste lives in dead-end jobs and might trade what they call "security" for the ups and downs of free-lance. Just what I'm told. fayberry, what's your experience with this question?

I am not a professional photographer. Just a hobbiest.

 

[faberryman]

However I didn't "give up" so much as quit...

Interesting distinction.

 

[jtk]

At the 'ripe' old age of 12 my neighbour (a somewhat 'retired pro) a couple of houses away was out photographing some roses in his front yard. I enquired as to what he was 'doing" and he replied that he was making a photograph of one of his roses... and I was invited to have a look under the darkcloth. later I was invited to do a little 'assisting' in his bedroom 'studio' where he photographed 'new' dinnerware and cutlery settings and I got to 'pin' on the wall the strips of coloured paper that provided an 'darker edge' (by reflection) to the 'separate the flatware. I was 'hooked" and that got me 'started'... But I was kicked out of the photography club in school after I 'Somehow' forgot to turn on the outside light to indicate when 120 film was being tray developed to one of the female students... and the teacher walked right in. Of course we were both startled and
jumped around with a 'Hey' we're tray developing... and then were both accused of a 'something else'.

I continued to assist my neighbour.. but on leaving school could not 'see' making a living as a photographer.. and started my practicum as an "Agricultural student".. two years later started Agricultural College
graduated and worked as a dairyman looking after 45-60 cows as well as the field work... eventually deciding to spread my wings and worked my passage to Canadian soil witba 2year old Clydesdale 'filly' 13 Hereford cows.. and 4 Landrace pigs
I got back into doing photography at a University Biology department doing AV work and with film, recording the results of research. I was invited to apply for a position with Agriculture Canada providing AV visuals, travelling across the country to photograph "farmers at work". That programme 'died' and managed to transfer
to Canada's largest Agriculture research facility. I passed the written and 'practical' exams and got my "Board Certification as a "Registered Biological Photographer" for quite a number of years.. . an later was 'honoured'
by being elected a 'Fellow' of the Association. A number of years later, the arrival and "advent" of the ease of the new digital, Staff could 'do for themselves' and I was layed off. A few years later my multi-degreed daughter challenged me as a 'pensioner to 'go and do' my BFA at the local university. In 2014 I graduated (at the ripe old age of 74)... and as a 'senior citizen, The Province of Alberta payed the 'bill'... I only had to supplied my materials, enthusiasm and 'ability'.
I'm still quite active both under the large format camera's dark cloth (4x5 and 8x10, weather allowing) and in my home dark- room where I now print 'mostly' in the archaic alternative print processes using my 'home built'
UV light source.

Ken

Ken, great story! Question: if you wanted to be a professional today, how would you go about it? Would you free-lance? Or you think there are photo opportunities like the ones you enjoyed for a younger version of you today?

 

[jtk]

Interesting distinction.

Quitting is a decision...decisions like that are similar to what's necessary to develop new business in any enterprise. I switched from photo to self-employed recruiting (head-hunting) ...which calls for energies/skills comparable to free-lance photo. I'm seriously thinking about that brew-pub opportunity I described above...

 

[Pieter12]

How about contributing something about your own professional experience with salaried staff positions.

Interesting. I can only speak from my own experience with staff vs freelance photographers, but staff can be just as talented and motivated. Sometimes they cannot devote as much time and support as an independent, their time being spread among departments and facilities. In some cases they also have to be generalists, shooting corporate events, executive portraits, product and facilities. However, they do seem to enjoy not having to frequently be out seeking assignments (or having an agent or studio manager do that for them) to make sure bills and overhead are paid. Of course, when there is a photo department, they need to be able to have enough work to justify their existence in the organization.

 

[jtk]

Interesting. I can only speak from my own experience with staff vs freelance photographers, but staff can be just as talented and motivated. Sometimes they cannot devote as much time and support as an independent, their time being spread among departments and facilities. In some cases they also have to be generalists, shooting corporate events, executive portraits, product and facilities. However, they do seem to enjoy not having to frequently be out seeking assignments (or having an agent or studio manager do that for them) to make sure bills and overhead are paid. Of course, when there is a photo department, they need to be able to have enough work to justify their existence in the organization.

Good points. Your last sentence seems especially important.

 

[Mainecoonmaniac]

I apologize if I started a ruckus here. But my point is that some think if someone enjoys an activity as a hobby, it will make a great profession. I consider myself a former professional that is now a hobbyist. I have shot professionally for 20 years and my skills as a photographer now are much because I've have 20 years more shooting under my belt. A profession and a hobby have 2 different realities. Someone like cooking at home, but might not enjoy cooking in a professional kitchen. May I add that we live in a society where money validates a person as successful or indicates that they're good. I don't find that to be true. If you love being a professional, good for you!

 

[jtk]

I apologize if I started a ruckus here. But my point is that some think if someone enjoys an activity as a hobby, it will make a great profession. I consider myself a former professional that is now a hobbyist. I have shot professionally for 20 years and my skills as a photographer now are much because I've have 20 years more shooting under my belt. A profession and a hobby have 2 different realities. Someone like cooking at home, but might not enjoy cooking in a professional kitchen. May I add that we live in a society where money validates a person as successful or indicates that they're good. I don't find that to be true. If you love being a professional, good for you!

Why do you need "validation" ?

IMO that's a non-concept. And I'm happy to be part of society.

Why is it that when asked about favorite photographers, Photrio members list famous photographers who make serious money?

Use of the term "hobby" sounds like a way to diminish amateur work.

 

[Pieter12]

Why do you need "validation" ?

IMO that's a non-concept. And I'm happy to be part of society.

Why is it that when asked about favorite photographers, Photrio members list famous photographers who make serious money?

Use of the term "hobby" sounds like a way to diminish amateur work.

Most people only know the work of famous photographers, some of whom made serious money. Or their prints sell for serious money today.

 

[John51]

If getting paid counts as being pro, then I used to be a pro. At the lowest level though. Childrens portraits at their home, I got those gigs by canvassing door to door, showing sample pics and sweet talking the mothers. Imagine trying that these days.

B+W walkie snaps in pubs and clubs on a Friday and Saturday night was a good earner. I accidentally got into being an unofficial wedding photographer. (Verichrome II, gorgeous skin tones, lots of print sales.) At any wedding I managed to wangle an invite to I also did walkie snaps at the reception. Got to meet loads of guests and I'd get asked to do Christenings, sports club award ceremonies etc. Plus the occasional invite to a wedding because they wanted me there taking extra pics. I always made an effort not to get in the way of the official photographer.

 

[jtk]

Yes, of course "getting paid counts as being a pro." If a pro wants, and is reasonably good, more work may follow.

Maybe that pursuit is more honorable than wandering the streets, hoping to photograph yet another lake or tree, or homeless victim or awkward street-crosser in the name of "hobby,:

Just IMO of course. .