New Reflex camera

[AgX]

A exchangable film-back at a 35mm camera is not new.
Contax and Rollei employed such with SLRs, Adox with a plain finder camera.

 

[FoidPoosening]

I will agree with other users here that the $135k and $150k stretch goals seem pretty low.

The idea of being able to use different legacy lenses without overly complex converters is appealing. Might back this when I get back from vacation, but more so in hopes of this company surviving the first run and making more refined designs based on the same "open source" idea. Hmm.

 

[AgX]

"The idea of being able to use different legacy lenses without overly complex converters is appealing."

There would be adapters nevertheless: their exchangable lens mounts. If these adapters do not offer an automatic diaphragm there would not be much difference to common adapters, aside that likely due to a very short built of the mirrorbox more mount variations could be possible than with current SLRs and adapters. Moreover they would chash-in the adapter business too.

 

[blockend]

The idea of being able to use different legacy lenses without overly complex converters is appealing.

Converters aren't complicated, and Chinese varieties are cheap. You can pick up any old lens and for loose change prices try it on your favourite camera. How will that compare to the mounting plate of a low-run, semi-bespoke SLR? To seriously support the Reflex concept means putting on hold all the judgements you bring to bear when deciding on a camera, and taking a huge leap of faith on the outcome, based on no more than a general enthusiasm for film. Beta testers of such products tend to be cash rich novelty seekers, newcomers who know no better, or evangelists with a vested interest.

£300 Lubitels and Impossible Project instant pictures do a disservice to film photography as a whole, presenting it as a novelty fit for toys, or an unevolved process with unpredictable outcomes. The Reflex is presented on the same principle, treating highly resolved solutions from companies who invested millions in R&D over many decades, as fair game for reappraisal. Try selling a Morris Marina for the same price as an E-Class Mercedes, or a 3 mp DSLR with a hand cranked power supply for the cost of a D850, and you'll find Kickstarter backers extolling its virtues and condemning doubters.

 

[farmersteve]

Converters aren't complicated, and Chinese varieties are cheap. You can pick up any old lens and for loose change prices try it on your favourite camera. How will that compare to the mounting plate of a low-run, semi-bespoke SLR? To seriously support the Reflex concept means putting on hold all the judgements you bring to bear when deciding on a camera, and taking a huge leap of faith on the outcome, based on no more than a general enthusiasm for film. Beta testers of such products tend to be cash rich novelty seekers, newcomers who know no better, or evangelists with a vested interest.

£300 Lubitels and Impossible Project instant pictures do a disservice to film photography as a whole, presenting it as a novelty fit for toys, or an unevolved process with unpredictable outcomes. The Reflex is presented on the same principle, treating highly resolved solutions from companies who invested millions in R&D over many decades, as fair game for reappraisal. Try selling a Morris Marina for the same price as an E-Class Mercedes, or a 3 mp DSLR with a hand cranked power supply for the cost of a D850, and you'll find Kickstarter backers extolling its virtues and condemning doubters.

^^^^ So True! I wish someone would take this seriously as in Nikon or Canon serious. Lot's of great cameras on eBay that will last many more decades, but there is plenty of need for a new SLR camera of quality...

 

[Siompa]

I don’t really get the argument of the price point in terms of other companies (canon,Nikon etc.) r&d budgets. There is several threads here that bash on new products that in their eyes have a too low price.

It’s like saying that a free app has to be shit just because Microsoft puts billions in r&d 20 years ago and their products has a higher price.

Fuji is selling a digital camera for 400 bucks which is a technical marvel compared to old technology for 300.
Materials and 3D printers are cheap enough to start small production.

I don’t agree that 300$ for a camera is too cheap

 

[AgX]

I understood the discussion so far as not the the retail price being too low qualitywise, but too low to come up for the manufacturing cost for all the features stated.

 

[blockend]

I don’t really get the argument of the price point in terms of other companies (canon,Nikon etc.) r&d budgets. There is several threads here that bash on new products that in their eyes have a too low price.

It’s like saying that a free app has to be shit just because Microsoft puts billions in r&d 20 years ago and their products has a higher price.

Fuji is selling a digital camera for 400 bucks which is a technical marvel compared to old technology for 300.
Materials and 3D printers are cheap enough to start small production.

I don’t agree that 300$ for a camera is too cheap

Since the demise of large scale film camera production, new products have tended to be novelties of one kind or another, and in many cases objectively worse, and much more expensive than what is already available. That smacks of pure marketing, hype, spiel. Apologists insist it is introducing film photography to a generation who are unfamiliar with it, which sounds like someone stealing your wallet and offering to lend you a little of your own cash to buy a new one!

The position currently is anyone expressing reservations on a new film product is cast as a curmudgeon who is completely out of touch with the market place. The latter may be true, but the diversity of film gear I own does not reflect someone set in their ways, unless those ways are cash following quality, and toy cameras at toy prices. I have no idea whether the Reflex will happen in the way their designers envisage, and I hope for their sake they can pull it off. It seems like an attempt (not yet voiced by its maker) to create a camera capable of accommodating film and a sensor at some future point. I don't see how it can be truly modular and capable of taking lenses of all types without being clunky and expensive, though I'd like to be proved wrong. Of course it's possible I'm missing the point of the Reflex entirely, in which case it's up to the camera's designers to put their case and fend off doubters. The big money going into 35mm cameras in 2017 is on stuff that's small and well built. If someone can supply people seeking old Contax's with a warranty and the latest electronics, they won't need high concept Kickstarter campaigns to shift boxes.

 

[summicron1]

Just remembered where I'd see the "Reflex" before -- in my own collection, cleverly disguised as a Braun Paxette/Sears Tower 34 Reflex.

On this one that's not a flash, it's a light meter window, but you gotta admit, the resemblance is interesting. This has interchangeable lenses, too, but not backs or lens mounts. It also retains the purity of a fully mechanical shutter.

 

[farmersteve]

Looks like the Kickstarter is at $173k with almost 3 weeks to go. I bet they get close to $250k. Don't listen to the hype when they tell you they blew away their goal. I have a friend that was in investor (not at kickstarter backer) of the Dead Link Removedsystem. Their "goal" was $200k but raised $1.4 million but the way he tells it is that their goal was always around $1million and they have to put these ridiculously low goals to make it seem like there is some real hype. Same here for Reflex. We all know that $100k isn't going to start jacksh*t in the camera industry, especially a whole new camera from scratch. I would hazard a guess that even at $250k they are severely underfunded.

 

[FoidPoosening]

Converters aren't complicated, and Chinese varieties are cheap. You can pick up any old lens and for loose change prices try it on your favourite camera. How will that compare to the mounting plate of a low-run, semi-bespoke SLR? To seriously support the Reflex concept means putting on hold all the judgements you bring to bear when deciding on a camera, and taking a huge leap of faith on the outcome, based on no more than a general enthusiasm for film. Beta testers of such products tend to be cash rich novelty seekers, newcomers who know no better, or evangelists with a vested interest.

I feel like putting a cheap chinese converter on say, Canon FD L quality glass does the lens a disservice. Additionally, with many of these converters you lose infinity focus or they require other exceptions when shooting. The less considerations and things I have to carry (converters) the better.

Looks like the Kickstarter is at $173k with almost 3 weeks to go. I bet they get close to $250k. Don't listen to the hype when they tell you they blew away their goal. I have a friend that was in investor (not at kickstarter backer) of the Dead Link Removedsystem. Their "goal" was $200k but raised $1.4 million but the way he tells it is that their goal was always around $1million and they have to put these ridiculously low goals to make it seem like there is some real hype. Same here for Reflex. We all know that $100k isn't going to start jacksh*t in the camera industry, especially a whole new camera from scratch. I would hazard a guess that even at $250k they are severely underfunded.

Yeah, I'm very curious to see what happens as the deadline looms as well. Agreed on how the goals for funding are usually setup.

 

[AgX]

A converter with apt mount would not have you loose infinity setting. This is the first time I hear of the contrary.

 

[faberryman]

Looks like the Kickstarter is at $173k with almost 3 weeks to go. I bet they get close to $250k. Don't listen to the hype when they tell you they blew away their goal. I have a friend that was in investor (not at kickstarter backer) of the Dead Link Removedsystem. Their "goal" was $200k but raised $1.4 million but the way he tells it is that their goal was always around $1million and they have to put these ridiculously low goals to make it seem like there is some real hype. Same here for Reflex. We all know that $100k isn't going to start jacksh*t in the camera industry, especially a whole new camera from scratch. I would hazard a guess that even at $250k they are severely underfunded.

They stalled out at around $175,000 a couple of weeks ago, and are now under $170,000. Of the 447 backers, only 300 are buying cameras.

 

[jtk]

The announced camera will not have a mechanical shutter.
And it will be completely new designed. (Both stated so on Facebook).

How about a new Graflex Super-D ?

 

[AgX]

A Graflex likely would be limited in interest to parts of the market, as America.

 

[blockend]

I feel like putting a cheap chinese converter on say, Canon FD L quality glass does the lens a disservice. Additionally, with many of these converters you lose infinity focus or they require other exceptions when shooting. The less considerations and things I have to carry (converters) the better.

Canon FD are one of very few SLR lenses that require optical correction on other mounts. If the new company are going to offer mounting plates for every lens made, it will be a very large project indeed. A camera that can fit any lens is a solution looking for a problem, especially when retaining all their functions demands sophisticated engineering solutions. Which is the likelier - camera bodies in good condition at fair prices exist in your preferred mount, or a new camera system needs to be developed to accommodate them?

 

[farmersteve]

They stalled out at around $175,000 a couple of weeks ago, and are now under $170,000. Of the 447 backers, only 300 are buying cameras.

Yah I see that and they seem to be going slightly backwards. Still I think they have enough to get this thing going... delivering is always the hard part.

 

[FoidPoosening]

Canon FD are one of very few SLR lenses that require optical correction on other mounts. If the new company are going to offer mounting plates for every lens made, it will be a very large project indeed. A camera that can fit any lens is a solution looking for a problem, especially when retaining all their functions demands sophisticated engineering solutions. Which is the likelier - camera bodies in good condition at fair prices exist in your preferred mount, or a new camera system needs to be developed to accommodate them?

Canon FD L lenses are my favorite, and are what I mostly shoot. So the idea of a new SLR that has an FD mount, as well as a M42 mount and capability for other mounts is very appealing.

My Canon F1N bodies will never die, but the T90s will see an end one day.

 

[E. von Hoegh]

Yah I see that and they seem to be going slightly backwards. Still I think they have enough to get this thing going... delivering is always the hard part.

I don't think they are even close. The people involved in this are inexperienced to the point that they don't realise what they've bit off. They don't even have a finalised prototype yet, (look at the pictures carefully) and yet they are claiming to have available all these bells and whistles - they should have concentrated on a simple unmetered body; electronic shutter seems a must, since no mechanical shutters are available, and the development of the shutter and a reliable no frills body should be their only priority. I think the funding is insufficient even for that, never mind the skills and experience of the "engineering team".

 

[AgX]

The people involved in this... should have concentrated on a simple unmetered body; electronic shutter seems a must, since no mechanical shutters are available,...".

They now could get their mechanical shutters from the Ihagee GmbH, as they now seem to have a surplus of those...

 

[Chan Tran]

Although the price tag is quite high I doubt that they can make it for that price.

 

[blockend]

Canon FD L lenses are my favorite, and are what I mostly shoot. So the idea of a new SLR that has an FD mount, as well as a M42 mount and capability for other mounts is very appealing.

My Canon F1N bodies will never die, but the T90s will see an end one day.

Any F, A or T series Canon body will accept your FD lenses. There are millions around and finding one at a reasonable price in excellent condition is easy. I have a box of them that will easily outlast me even if I never used any other camera. M42 mount cameras are even more numerous.

 

[E. von Hoegh]

They now could get their mechanical shutters from the Ihagee GmbH, as they now seem to have a surplus of those...

Including a very robust shipping package in the form of a Kiev 19 body.

 

[farmersteve]

I don't think they are even close. The people involved in this are inexperienced to the point that they don't realise what they've bit off. They don't even have a finalised prototype yet, (look at the pictures carefully) and yet they are claiming to have available all these bells and whistles - they should have concentrated on a simple unmetered body; electronic shutter seems a must, since no mechanical shutters are available, and the development of the shutter and a reliable no frills body should be their only priority. I think the funding is insufficient even for that, never mind the skills and experience of the "engineering team".

I think I should've said "They have enough to fulfill their Kickstarter pledge, delivering is the hard part". We all remember the stupid cooler with the blender that everyone went wild for and they never delivered...

 

[FoidPoosening]

Any F, A or T series Canon body will accept your FD lenses. There are millions around and finding one at a reasonable price in excellent condition is easy. I have a box of them that will easily outlast me even if I never used any other camera. M42 mount cameras are even more numerous.

Agreed, but the way I see it the T90 is the newest camera body that accepts FD lenses. When those die out, unfortunately I'll have to go backwards on bodies to older more serviceable models with better longevity. I personally see Reflex as a way to use my FD lenses natively with a newer camera body.