New Reflex camera

[Lachlan Young]

Why are the Cosina-based Bessa type cameras no longer being produced? Lack of demand?

The end of Copal Square shutter production & consequent exhaustion of available stock would seem the most likely cause.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I don't know anything about that. I became interested in Voigtländer first because of their cameras (Bessamatic) and then their lenses (famous Zoomar).

From what I read here, it looks good to me:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voigtländer

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Petzval

Disputes
Petzval placed very high requirements on himself and others. That was probably connected with his critical, contentious and sarcastic nature, which brought him many conflicts, particularly in the field of mathematics.

Petzval had a controversy with Christian Doppler over problems of acoustics, and Doppler responded in 1852 with a book entitled "Remarks Over the Objections Stated by Professor Petzval Against the Correctness of My Theory".

In particular he was involved in lengthy disputes with the entrepreneur Voigtländer. These began in 1845, when Petzval raised the issue of fraud for the first time. Because Petzval only held a patent in Austria, Voigtländer shifted his production to Braunschweig in Germany, where he produced about 60,000 Petzval lenses in the following 20 years. Petzval for his part co-operated since 1854 with the Austrian optics producer Dietzler. The latter's lenses were marketed in Austria as the "photographic Dialyt", while Voigtländer marketed the lenses in Germany and Austria as the "Voightländer Orthoskop". After further interference by Voigtländer, Dietzler went bankrupt in 1862. When Petzval threatened legal action, Voigtländer closed his Austrian plant in 1866. Petzval could have then transferred the marketing, but he had renounced working with optics after his home was robbed in 1859 and worked instead on acoustics. In 1862, he also stopped lecturing on
optics.


...

Optics

In 1840, Petzval allowed the Viennese entrepreneur Peter Wilhelm Friedrich von Voigtländer to produce the lens for a one-time payment of 2,000 guldens, without a patent or a contract, which led later to a lasting controversy between Petzval and Voigtländer. Voigtländer, who had confirmed the process through his own calculations, produced a prototype in May 1840 and began production of the lens for the daguerrotype cameras in 1841, making a fortune in the process. The thermionic cameras were made from brass, using round daguerreotype plates which exposed a diameter of 8 cm. In 1841, 600 of these cameras were manufactured and sold at a price of 120 guldens. Voigtländer received a medal at the world exhibition in Paris for this achievement. These first metal-body cameras were prototypes of today's modern cameras. It took another 50 years until an improved camera became available. Petzval's portrait objective lens was used into the 1920s (often under other names) in cameras and is used today in projectors. The lens played an important role in the development of photography and cinematography.

 

[Theo Sulphate]

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Petzval
...

I wonder why Petzval never took the issue to court then to claim or prove what he thought belonged to him.

Regardless, Voigtländer (the person and company) had achievements of their own.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Petzval did fight it in court and lost. But most optics books state that Voigtländer took designs that Petzval had Voigtländer fabricate so Petzval could test them and then Voigtländer marketed the designs as his own.

 

[farmersteve]

Here is the first look at the new Reflex camera. More than I thought they could pull off. Still not sure how they are going to build the first cameras with $130,000 must be some other money involved.
Dead Link Removed

 

[macfred]

Here is the first look at the new Reflex camera. More than I thought they could pull off. Still not sure how they are going to build the first cameras with $130,000 must be some other money involved.
Dead Link Removed

This is more than astonishing ...

 

[Billy Axeman]

It's a strange mix of features. I don't like the design (top, grip), too much electronics, and the unimaginative name. Another point is the battery. To me it seems it has a built in Lithium battery chargeable via a USB connector, both prone to defects. The used USB-C connector is also an uncommon type. This is not the minimalistic camera I had hoped for, the Bessaflex mentioned before is a much more mature design.

 

[farmersteve]

Not to mention for this price you can still buy a great Nikon with a lens that will be around much longer than this camera. I'm not too thrilled with an Arduino based shutter, but I guess if you need to build it yourself these days this is the way to go.

 

[EdSawyer]

This will fail and never get off the ground. It's ripe with bad decisions (interchangable lens mount plate AND film back? Good luck with focus and registration issues with all those tolerances. ) There's so many better, mature, well-made already-existing 35mm film cameras that crush this thing feature- and reliability-wise, it's hard to understand why they are even wasting the effort on this boondoggle. Maybe just to harvest $ from the hipster wankers.

 

[Billy Axeman]

I'm no specialist, but to me it seems impossible to make a magnesium body with this complicated design for the price they propose: many custom mechanical parts, shutter, pentaprism, mirror mechanism, electronics, battery, production costs (!), labour and other costs for your organization ...
Even if they had ordered an existing camera design from Cosina, it is unthinkable they could do it that cheap.

If they want to sell it internationally it's strange their prices are in Pound Sterling on the Kickstarter site, but alas.
Currently 1 Pound Sterling is 1.13 Euro or 1.13 US Dollar.

 

[farmersteve]

I just realized that they could, with the interchangeable backs, create a digital full frame back?

 

[E. von Hoegh]

I'm no specialist, but to me it seems impossible to make a magnesium body with this complicated design for the price they propose: many custom mechanical parts, shutter, pentaprism, mirror mechanism, electronics, battery, production costs (!), labour and other costs for your organization ...
Even if they had ordered an existing camera design from Cosina, it is unthinkable they could do it that cheap.

Nothing was said about metering, or whether auto diaphragm function would be preserved with the multiple mounts, and the battery dependence isn't good. Built in flash plus an LED light(?) sound like current demands could be heavy, so the camera is effectively tethered to a wall socket. Looks like a rather poorly conceived concept, I can't see it going very far. Interchangeable film backs and interchangeable lens mounts sound great but add up to a nightmare of tolerances.
Me? For the price, I'll grab a Spotmatic, have it and the lens overhauled, save a few hundred dollars for film and wind up with far more camera.

 

[faberryman]

You could buy almost any classic film camera (Nikon F2, Canon F1, Olympus OM1, Pentax Spotmatic, etc) and have it overhauled for half the price of this electronic Frankenstein. What is the demographic that would buy this camera?

 

[BMbikerider]

More details are leaking out. Looks like Kickstarter price at $399 which is not completely crazy. It will have an M42 mount, which is about the only one they can do without legal problems. They might be releasing a total of 3 different cameras eventually. I guess all will be revealed next week!

https://www.thephoblographer.com/2017/11/02/reflex-manual-film-slr-will-hit-kickstarter-soon/

,yes it seems the 42mm screw mount is the basic, but on another website I have seen that it is intended to offer several different optional lens mount converters.Canon, Nikon Olympus Pentax K and Minolta so you could build up a considerable arsenal of lenses. The minimum shutter speed is given as 1 second - much too long in this day and age. If the build quality is good, say up to Nikon FM2 standards then it may be viable

 

[E. von Hoegh]

You could buy almost any classic film camera and have it overhauled for half the price of this electronic Frankenstein. What is the demographic that would buy this camera?

Young, cool, ardent media consumer, far more cash than knowledge or experience.

 

[E. von Hoegh]

So translated this means they have six days to finish cobbling a mockup together.

 

[faberryman]

Young, cool, ardent media consumer, far more cash than knowledge or experience.

Wouldn't it be more "cool" to have a classic film camera? Or perhaps I should just give up trying to figure out what is cool.

 

[farmersteve]

Looks like you can't remove the battery? That's a non starter for me...

 

[Billy Axeman]

How are the rules for Kickstarter? Do you need a business plan?

 

[E. von Hoegh]

Wouldn't it be more "cool" to have a classic film camera? Or perhaps I should just give up trying to figure out what is cool.

The highest level of "coolness" should be having a classic camera and knowing how to use it. But, maybe we're both too old....

 

[Wallendo]

I find the camera very interesting. On the other hand, I have enough old cameras that I have no need to purchase a $400 toy. I find the interchangeable mounts a neat idea (I have often wondered if that could be accomplished), but at current prices find it easier to purchase multiple different bodies to fit my lenses.

I can see this camera being of interest to photographers new to analog who can be overwhelmed by the sheer volume of older camera makes and models, as well as the risks of buying used equipment.

 

[Craig75]

The highest level of "coolness" should be having a classic camera and knowing how to use it. But, maybe we're both too old....

from the kids at work that is the coolest but they have to work backwards from fully auto everything to fully manual - manual cameras are very hard especially when you are used to cameras doing everything for you.

 

[farmersteve]

How are the rules for Kickstarter? Do you need a business plan?

There aren't many rules to start a Kickstarter campaign but here they are: Dead Link Removed
What happens if they don't deliver as promised? Dead Link Removed but from what I've seen on several hugely failed projects there is no accountability. If they fail to deliver, you can be out of your money. The famous example of that is the Coolest cooler fiasco http://mashable.com/2016/04/16/coolest-cooler-money/#.yJwvqyWvaqm

This is why I would wait until they get past the kickstarter fund raising and actually deliver some of the cameras before I would buy one.

 

[E. von Hoegh]

from the kids at work that is the coolest but they have to work backwards from fully auto everything to fully manual - manual cameras are very hard especially when you are used to cameras doing everything for you.

I know. There's a young lady here who wants to learn film. So, she has to unlearn auto everything, variable ISO, autofocus, image stabilisation, etc. etc. etc.. She's got a Nikon FM, the first roll took about 40 minutes to burn through. No delete function either.

I'd really like to be positive about this thing, but they've concocted a real can of worms as far as reliability goes, it's even harder to learn manual cameras when they are fraught with as many potential pitfalls as this one. I see the interchangeable backs and mounting plates as real red flags; they need harder metal than magnesium alloy to make the mounts work, and what about the auto diaphragm on several different lens systems? Then you have the assembled electronics.

 

[Theo Sulphate]

Removable film back allows for changing film mid-roll. Old Kodak Ektra had this design, I think.

Film registration would be better than 126-format, I'm sure.

No, not 100% mechanical. May or may not buy one if it becomes real, but I've supported their efforts. They are creative at least.