Longevity of toning solutions?

[MattKing]

!!! $225 for a paper cutter?

What's wrong with the $9.26 one I got from Amazon?

You do realize that I'm just putting these prints in my family album, right?

There are intermediate priced solutions that work well too.
But trust us, the better cutters are worth spending more money on, and Rotatrim is actually worth it if you are going to use them for years!
My wife and I use the cutters we have (note the plural) for all sorts of tasks, some of which are related to darkrooms and photography.

 

[khh]

!!! $225 for a paper cutter?

What's wrong with the $9.26 one I got from Amazon?

You do realize that I'm just putting these prints in my family album, right?

If you already have a paper cutter, use it. Upgrade if you feel the need to. A rotary cutter is better than a guillotine cutter, especially if you're going to do paper cutting in total darkness. Rotatrim isn't the only option if you want to upgrade either, e.g. Dahle also makes some good ones. But a better paper cutter isn't going to make you a better photographer or printer. I started with a cheap rotary cutter I bought second hand, and it cut both test strips, prints and even a roll of Fuji RA-4 paper just fine. The main thing it couldn't do was cut stacks of paper, single sheets were never an issue.

(Oh, and if we're listing our favorite FB papers, I really love Fomatone (131), but Fomabrom (111) is pretty nice too).

 

[GregY]

!!! $225 for a paper cutter?

What's wrong with the $9.26 one I got from Amazon?

You do realize that I'm just putting these prints in my family album, right?

d, in the long run, setting up a darkroom is like setting up a shop. Ask a carpenter, mechanic or machinist. You have to decide what's going to work for you. A box of Ilford warmtone FB 8x10....is now $235 a box in 8x10.
While i've sold (bought) many cameras. I still have the same enlarger (s), drymount press, Rotatrim and Logan matt Cutter.
If you can look ahead and forsee where your going great. Replacing worn out or poorly working cheap tools is costly.
As an example a box of Ilford Warmtone 16x20 is $400 USD. Matting & mounting one print calls for $50 for 2 sheets of archival board. I can't afford to waste expensive materials by missing or ragged cuts.
When you ask a pretty open question here....you're going to get a range of answers.
Apply those that work for you....
& no....we didn't know you're putting prints in a family album....

 

[dcy]

There are intermediate priced solutions that work well too.
But trust us, the better cutters are worth spending more money on, and Rotatrim is actually worth it if you are going to use them for years!
My wife and I use the cutters we have (note the plural) for all sorts of tasks, some of which are related to darkrooms and photography.

Can you give me an example of an intermediate cutter and an explanation of what it can do that the cheap one can't do well?

I'm actually surprised you guys even spend a lot of time cutting sheets. I'd imagine that you'd have a stack of papers you like with the sizes you want, right from the factory.

 

[GregY]

Can you give me an example of an intermediate cutter and an explanation of what it can do that the cheap one can't do well?

I'm actually surprised you guys even spend a lot of time cutting sheets. I'd imagine that you'd have a stack of papers you like with the sizes you want, right from the factory.

I use my Rotatrim to trim the borders off a print before i dry mount it.......if the print isn't absolutely square then the window mat cut for it will be off and look like ....
I sometimes trim 20x24" when i'm making prints from square negatives....to have test strips
I sometimes cut 16x20 or 20x24" paper down the middle for making a contact print from an 4x10" or 8x20" negative.

 

[Craig]

I'm actually surprised you guys even spend a lot of time cutting sheets. I'd imagine that you'd have a stack of papers you like with the sizes you want, right from the factory.

Paper sizes don't always match the crop you want, and for drymounting the print and the mounting tissue is cut together at the same time. A quality cutter is essential to get a crisp sharp edge.

It can be done with a quality machinists steel straightedge and a new xacto blade, but it takes care and skill. A Rotatrim makes it much easier and quicker. Sort of like you could sew a pair of jeans by hand from denim pieces with a needle and thread, or you could use a sewing machine. Once is much faster and a higher quality product than the other.

 

[dcy]

Replacing worn out or poorly working cheap tools is costly.

Sometimes I like to take this approach: Buy a cheap tool first. If it wears out, that proves you use it enough to be worth buying the expensive one.

That approach doesn't make sense for everything, but it makes sense for many things.

When you ask a pretty open question here....you're going to get a range of answers.

In my defense, I did not ask any question about cutters. I just said I was going to cut 8x10s so I could buy the small 25-pack.

& no....we didn't know you're putting prints in a family album....

I'm sorry. I thought I had talked about that a couple of times before. My bad. Here's what I'm doing with my first few prints:

I'm pretty happy with this. As you can see, this is a glorified scrapbook. This is what I consider archival storage. I have a nice scrapbook with acid-free paper and I got photo corners so that there is no adhesive on the print and the paper isn't as likely to press against the print. This is a significant upgrade from how I store the prints that I print digitally. Those go into an album with sticky adhesive sheets.

Once I have a larger stack of prints, I will pick some favourites to mount on the wall. I have bookmarked some mat board on Amazon and I will mount the prints on the mat board with hinging tape.

 

[dcy]

Paper sizes don't always match the crop you want, and for drymounting the print and the mounting tissue is cut together at the same time. A quality cutter is essential to get a crisp sharp edge.

Oh... I know what you're talking about... There was a YT video by The Naked Photographer where he explained different ways to mount prints on mat board. I remember him using a cutter when he explained drymounting. I think it was even the same cutter @GregY pointed me to.

 

[MattKing]

I give framed and matted 5x7 prints as gifts.
Two 5x7 exposures on the same 8x10 sheet. Then trimmed after processing, toning and dried.
One 11x14 sheet gives you four 5.5"x7" prints as well.
4x5 is a great size for tests - four to an 8x10 sheet.
Some of my cameras give results with a 1:1 (square) aspect ratio.
Some give results with a 3:4 aspect ratio.
Some give results with a 2:3 aspect ratio.
I still have lots of negatives with a 6:7 aspect ratio.
I often trim the results.
It is quite difficult to make straight and accurate cuts in the dark with most cheap cutters.
And it is expensive and inconvenient to maintain a selection of paper and sizes.
The Dahle rotary paper trimmers are worth considering.

 

[dcy]

The Dahle rotary paper trimmers are worth considering.

What do you think of this one?:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1616207-REG/dahle_00508_24050_personal_rolling_trimmer_18.html

This is their "Personal" line for only $56. The next step up is their "Professional" line which starts at $169 for a 14" model.

Not going to buy it now, but I'll put it in my B&H wish list and wait till I feel I've hit the limit of my $9 cutter. At $56, it's easy to justify for hobby work. Incidentally, my $9 cutter is of the rotary type (it's this one). No idea why they're called "rotary". I don't see anything rotating.

 

[dcy]

Two 5x7 exposures on the same 8x10 sheet. Then trimmed after processing, toning and dried.
One 11x14 sheet gives you four 5.5"x7" prints as well.
4x5 is a great size for tests - four to an 8x10 sheet.

I feel dumb for not thinking of cutting two 5x7s. Even the 1" trim isn't wasted. Can use it for strip tests.

 

[koraks]

What do you think of this one?:

That looks like a modern version of an old Dahle I have. Works OK for me. I traded it for something else, which is how I got it. I've always just used whatever cutter/cutting tool I had. Prior to the Dahle I just used scissors for small/crude stuff and a ruler & knife if it had to be tidy. I still do that a lot for bigger jobs.

This is one of those moments where I feel you're at risk of overthinking things. Sure, it's nice to have a beautiful rotary trimmer. If you happen to have a $10 job, then see how that goes first. Let's not make it more complicated than it really is.

 

[GregY]

What do you think of this one?:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1616207-REG/dahle_00508_24050_personal_rolling_trimmer_18.html

This is their "Personal" line for only $56. The next step up is their "Professional" line which starts at $169 for a 14" model.

Not going to buy it now, but I'll put it in my B&H wish list and wait till I feel I've hit the limit of my $9 cutter. At $56, it's easy to justify for hobby work. Incidentally, my $9 cutter is of the rotary type (it's this one). No idea why they're called "rotary". I don't see anything rotating.

I can't really say without seeing it. In 10+ yrs i've never had to replace the cutting head on my Rotatrim.
BTW....it says this about the one you mentioned: "can cut up to five sheets at a time"
If you want the cleanest cuts.... cut one sheet at a time.

 

[dcy]

This is one of those moments where I feel you're at risk of overthinking things. Sure, it's nice to have a beautiful rotary trimmer. If you happen to have a $10 job, then see how that goes first. Let's not make it more complicated than it really is.

Yeah. The fact is that I have been quite happy with the one I have. I put the Dahle one on my wish list so it won't be forgotten. But I will keep using the one I have and I'm happy with, until it no longer does what I want.

If you want the cleanest cuts.... cut one sheet at a time.

Definitely.

 

[GregY]

!!! $225 for a paper cutter?

What's wrong with the $9.26 one I got from Amazon?

You do realize that I'm just putting these prints in my family album, right?

I have the 30" model.....
I used to have the 12" as well... that was in the darkroom side...but scissors work just as well to cut test strips off an 8x10 or 11x14"

 

[dcy]

Sounds great! Thiourea sepia toner is very flexible. https://tinker.koraks.nl/photography/shades-of-brown-controlling-sepia-toning-hue/

Btw, I love your website. I had encountered your article with C-41 formulas almost a year ago, but I hadn't appreciated how often you add new content. I'm especially enjoying your articles on toning and alt-process.

 

[mshchem]

https://www.amazon.com/Dahle-Personal-Rolling-Trimmer-Blue/dp/B082NQGZC5

Cut-Cat 55 bucks beautiful little trimmer!!!!

 

[mshchem]

Sometimes I like to take this approach: Buy a cheap tool first. If it wears out, that proves you use it enough to be worth buying the expensive one.

That approach doesn't make sense for everything, but it makes sense for many things.




In my defense, I did not ask any question about cutters. I just said I was going to cut 8x10s so I could buy the small 25-pack.



I'm sorry. I thought I had talked about that a couple of times before. My bad. Here's what I'm doing with my first few prints:

View attachment 402487

I'm pretty happy with this. As you can see, this is a glorified scrapbook. This is what I consider archival storage. I have a nice scrapbook with acid-free paper and I got photo corners so that there is no adhesive on the print and the paper isn't as likely to press against the print. This is a significant upgrade from how I store the prints that I print digitally. Those go into an album with sticky adhesive sheets.

Once I have a larger stack of prints, I will pick some favourites to mount on the wall. I have bookmarked some mat board on Amazon and I will mount the prints on the mat board with hinging tape.

That's Great!!!!!

 

[mshchem]

I have one of these little Dahle cutters that came to me 2nd hand, works great. Also, one 11x14 yields (8) 3 1/2 × 5 1/2 US size postcards

 

[MattKing]

What do you think of this one?:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1616207-REG/dahle_00508_24050_personal_rolling_trimmer_18.html

This is their "Personal" line for only $56. The next step up is their "Professional" line which starts at $169 for a 14" model.

Not going to buy it now, but I'll put it in my B&H wish list and wait till I feel I've hit the limit of my $9 cutter. At $56, it's easy to justify for hobby work. Incidentally, my $9 cutter is of the rotary type (it's this one). No idea why they're called "rotary". I don't see anything rotating.

Given what we know about your current usage, and considering likely usage for you in the short and medium term, the personal Dahle trimmer will probably serve you well enough with photo paper.

My larger Rotatrim is actually in the shared darkroom enjoyed by my Darkroom Group - it can handle much heavier use and a much wider variety of cuttable paper - even 2 or 4 ply mat board in a pinch. I expect the more expensive Dahle one would be similar to that Rotatrim.

Particularly with the medium to larger sizes of printing paper being so expensive - the $8 per sheet 16x20 Ilford Warmtone paper referenced above being an excellent example - you can get some sense of why spending a bit more on a better trimmer makes sense.

A non-straight and ragged edge on a print means it goes from being a candidate for presentation to a useful demonstration of a work print. And means that you may have to print and tone another one.

And as for your current trimmer, it is probably designed the way it is in order to look a little like the rotary trimmers, so someone sloppily decided to call it one.

The rotary trimmers feature rotating round cutting blades. With some brands, you can replace just the blade. With the Dahle trimmers, it looks like you have to replace the whole head when the blade is worn out.

 

[MattKing]

Oh and by the way, while the 18" cut length is great, it requires a fairly deep counter to use it. A 14" cut length is long enough to handle 11"x14" paper.

 

[dcy]

I have one of these little Dahle cutters that came to me 2nd hand, works great. Also, one 11x14 yields (8) 3 1/2 × 5 1/2 US size postcards

Postcards!

I should start sending postcards!

My whole family is far away. My dad and brothers are in Toronto + Vancouver and my in-laws are in Germany. Don't see them often. Can't really show them my prints. I should start making postcards and sending them out. I've also been convinced of the value of getting larger sheets and cutting what you need:

• I could start buying 8x10s and churn out 4x5 postcards, 5x7 prints, and 8x10 prints.
• I could start buying 11x14s and churn out 3 1/2 x 5 1/2 postcards, 5x7 prints, and "custom size" 7x10 prints that would actually suit the aspect ratio of my half-frame negatives.

 

[dcy]

Oh and by the way, while the 18" cut length is great, it requires a fairly deep counter to use it. A 14" cut length is long enough to handle 11"x14" paper.

Ah, good to know. I assumed that the cutter had to be at least a bit larger than the paper you're trying to cut. That's why I was looking at the 18".

 

[mshchem]

Postcards!

I should start sending postcards!

My whole family is far away. My dad and brothers are in Toronto + Vancouver and my in-laws are in Germany. Don't see them often. Can't really show them my prints. I should start making postcards and sending them out. I've also been convinced of the value of getting larger sheets and cutting what you need:

• I could start buying 8x10s and churn out 4x5 postcards, 5x7 prints, and 8x10 prints.
• I could start buying 11x14s and churn out 3 1/2 x 5 1/2 postcards, 5x7 prints, and "custom size" 7x10 prints that would actually suit the aspect ratio of my half-frame negatives.

Perfect

 

[MattKing]

Three 4"x6" postcards per 8x10 sheet - with a little scrap to be used for tests left over
The post offices like 4"x6" postcards - you in the US actually get a favorable postal rate for US destinations.
And most important of all, you can participate in the Photrio Postcard exchange, and in return receive a bunch from others!
https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/the-postcard-exchange-faq.82546/#post-2615058