Light meters with reflective, incident and spot metering

bonk

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Are there light meters that that have reflective, incident and spot metering modes all in one device?

I know that for example the Sekonic L-858D has spot metering and incident metering but I think it doesn’t have this reflective metering mode like my Gossen Profisix has.

I suppose that for large format photography all three modes might be useful (or not ?) and it would be nice to carry just one device.
 
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ic-racer

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Too bad the newer Sekonic meters don't have reflected average metering. Sometimes reflected/average is best. They get around that with the AVERAGE function on the spot meter. In most cases of film photography one would want the MEDIAN not AVERAGE of your saved spot readings, however.

8 saved readings of shadow and a single highlight reading, when AVERAGED won't give a correct exposure. You frequently would want the exposure to be between those highest and lowest values.

I believe the AVERAGE function gives you 9 chances to pick a middle gray from your scene.

Good news is that meters like the 558 show little dots for each saved reading. So one can easily count the distance between the highest and lowest dots to get the exposure if using it that way (which is not the way taught in most Zone texts but will work).
 
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RalphLambrecht

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All in one devices are always a compromise.
 

Chan Tran

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They don't make them like that. The ones that came close are the one with incident and reflected (not spot) and you add an attachment to turn it into spot.
 

BrianShaw

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bonk said:
I know that for example the Sekonic L-858D has spot metering and incident metering but I think it doesn’t have this reflective metering mode like my Gossen Profisix has.
Click to expand...
Spot is reflective. What it doesn’t offer is a general coverage reflective metering. One can get very close by spot metering shadow, highlight, and mid-tone... then averaging.
 

BradS

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Again, nothing about large format photography necessitates any kind of special light meter or light metering technique.

You do not need a spot meter.

Use whatever meter you have and whatever technique you’ve used previously and make photos.
 
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138S

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bonk said:
Are there light meters that that have reflective, incident and spot metering modes all in one device?
Click to expand...

If you have a reflective meter (spot meter is a reflective kind of reflective meter) the you also have an incident meter, all you have to carry is a 18% grey card. Take the reding there and you have te incident metering.




The Kodak R-27 card is specially suitable as it is spectrally flat, being technically perfect, and also it includes clear instructions.

Still every meter has its own spectral sensitivity, and depending on the light source one meter may deliver an slightly different reading (daylight vs tungsten vs...)

Incident metering is specially interesting in some situations were you can read the light reaching your subject, but sometimes your subject is far and you cannot read the light reaching it.

IMO the most versatile and accurate way is spot metering, which allows the incident reading by adding a grey card (cut an small piece, perhaps).

Personally I always meter with a SLR/DSLR in spot mode, using the reading on the grey card for slides when illumination is consistent enough to make the incident reading suitable.

With the SLR I inspect the scene with the SLR/DSLR, using the focal (zoom) matching the view (H/V) the LF lens, so when plating the 8x10" I know that I have a composition that's worth enough. Moving the tripod around with the 8x10 and changing lenses it is quite a mess, I find that with the preview made yet I do it faster and better.

For some shots I also use the SLR to take shot with the same film, I develop the 35mm film first so it may help to adjust developement the sheet. Some 8x10 shots take a lot of effort, and having the 35mm prototype it may be useful.

Of course dedicated meters are also great, just pointing that a SLR can be a nice tool for metring LF, it offers spot (etc), incident (with the card), composition preview, and prototype film shot. I use a F5 or a F65 depending on if the shot is near to the road.

Attached the equivalent focals for FX and DX, in the H, V and Diagonal angles. The table can be modifided for the focals one is to carry around.
 

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138S

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BradS said:
You do not need a spot meter.
Click to expand...

It depends on the scene and on what you want to do.

For zone system practitioners the Spot meter is very important as you decide the exposure for your shadows and the development for your highlights, your highlights can be in Z-X, and you may want them placed in Z-VIII, you need to know if you want a N-2 or N-1... so you want to meter the highlights independently. With any meter you can meter highlights (and shadows) in some way, but the spot meter tells it directly.

Of course there is no need, but no doubt that the spot meter can be quite interesting, at least for contrasty scenes whern planing the N-/+
 

Paul Howell

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The closest to a 3 in one meter is a Gossan with a spot meter attachment, don't think the attachment was a true 1%. For the most part I use either an average meter or a DSLR with a zoom lens in spot or matrix mode. If I am being really fussy with the zone I use a 1% spot. In most lighting when not using zone in good light my old GE 8DW58Y1, that the model number, does really well.
 
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bonk

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138S said:
Incident metering is specially interesting in some situations were you can read the light reaching your subject, but sometimes your subject is far and you cannot read the light reaching it.
Click to expand...

I read that incident metering is often used in landscape photography, that’s usually a situation where the subject is far. Do really have take the metering near the subject?
 

BrianShaw

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bonk said:
I read that incident metering is often used in landscape photography, that’s usually a situation where the subject is far. Do really have take the metering near the subject?
Click to expand...
You need to incident meter near the subject or in representative light.
 

BradS

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This Gossen Luna Pro SBC light meter seems to get the job done and it works for the Leica M2, Mamiya TLR, 4x5 Graflex Crown Graphic and Deardorff V8. With practice, Sunny-16 works pretty good too.

Don’t obsess about it.
 
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BrianShaw

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BradS said:
Don’t obsess about it.
Click to expand...
I have a Sekonic L-558 that is a big but decent meter. Probably the biggest waste of my photographic funds, though. My go-to is the older Gossen Luna-Pro. Similar diversity of cameras as mentioned above (but no Leica since I’m not a DDS... LOL) Always accurate and easy-to-use. Don’t obsess about it.
 

Bill Burk

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Get the Profi-Spot! There's one on eBay right now with a sensible price. You won't have to carry around two meters like you would if you bought a Pentax digital spot (which would otherwise be a good chice).
 

Paul Howell

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bonk said:
I read that incident metering is often used in landscape photography, that’s usually a situation where the subject is far. Do really have take the metering near the subject?
Click to expand...

Beyond the Zone System uses incident meters, the ISO does not matter, what matters is the Scene Brightness Range, they shade the meter to read the shadows and put the meter in full light facing the camera to meter the highlights. (I think I have it right.)
 

Helge

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Spot requires time, (real) knowledge, practice and a reasonably passive scene.
It’s rarely worth it.
Trouble is, an amateur collect-a-spot average metering will get close enough and will only mostly be a bit worse than incident or reflected, so you will not notice the difference, thinking you did a superior job. Until you get to a scene, where you make a “catastrophic” mistake forgetting to use reason.
Those photos tend to be the most interesting.
Spot metering is good for a very few select situations.
 
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grat

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I still haven't quite figured out how to use an incident meter for a shadow or highlight 200+ yards away.

Spot and incident meters are both good tools. Neither will fix bad composition, poor lighting, or poor technique.

Use the right tool for the right job. It's much easier that way.
 

MattKing

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grat said:
I still haven't quite figured out how to use an incident meter for a shadow or highlight 200+ yards away.
Click to expand...
In many landscape photography situations, subjects that are 200+ yards away are in the same light as the photographer.
 

grat

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MattKing said:
In many landscape photography situations, subjects that are 200+ yards away are in the same light as the photographer.
Click to expand...

I think the problem here is the word "many"-- if 10% (and that's a conservative number, in my opinion) of the landscape situations I might be in aren't appropriate for an incident meter, but 100% can be metered with a spot meter, I'm better off with a spot meter. Granted, my spot meter doesn't have a memory, and can't average readings together-- but it's not tough to do in my head, and I can compensate a bit either direction based on the situation.

If I primarily did portrait or close-up work, my primary meter would be an incident meter. As I prefer landscape as a rule, I find myself preferring the spot meter.
 

MattKing

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I have a spot meter which I often don't carry with me because of its size.
When I do carry it, I only use it in very specialized circumstances.
Mostly I use incident metering, followed up by in camera metering, with spot metering a distant third.
Which merely highlights the fact that the approach to metering is very much a personal thing.
 

138S

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BrianShaw said:
You need to incident meter near the subject or in representative light.
Click to expand...
+1

bonk said:
I read that incident metering is often used in landscape photography, that’s usually a situation where the subject is far. Do really have take the metering near the subject?
Click to expand...

See the Ansel Adams shot:



You and your camera are in the shadow, with an incident meter you cannot meter how much light is bathing the mountains.

See this one:



With an incident meter you don't know how bright the clouds are... Now imagine you use slide film... you want to know what Graded ND filter you require...

Now see this one:


https://www.nickcarverphotography.com/art/prints/

With an incident meter you don't know how much light there is inside the shop, you have to go inside the shop to take the reading... if you want to know how exposed the illuminated sign is then you have to climb there to take the reding on the sign...


With the spot meter you take the reading in the place you want, and when you consider an exposure then you can check how under/over exposed every interesting spot on the scene will result. Still the incident reading can be totally worth when you meter the lights that is reaching your subject.
 
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Helge

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Never did anyone here say it was useless.
What you are describing is most likely using a medium tele on a meterless camera.
That’s already a pretty rare occasion, apart from having you subject in shadow.
That’s mostly old school medium format SLR.
LF with a huge tele, you’d meter off the ground glass.

With incident in “global” midday sun, you’ll often be able to make a very good guess by creating your own shadow locally.
 

138S

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Helge said:
Spot requires time, (real) knowledge, practice and a reasonably passive scene.
Click to expand...

Helge, this thread is in the LF section...

> After planting a 8x10" , the least concern is if you spend 15s to decide your exposure. After making the remarkable effort to shot a LF sheet you spend as much time is necessary to nail the shot. Many times you take two shots, with equal exposure to have a backup, you don't make a bracketing... so you meter the best you can, to not tell the case when you shot a 8x10" velvia, if you toast a 8x10 velvia you remember the pain for decades... so usually you spend the necessary time. An exception was the Moonrise, light was changing, Adams lost the meter and he guessed the exposure from a certain Moonny 16 rule. A master usually nails exposure even in that situation.

> If you don't have (real) knowledge and practice then better you practice with 35mm film, so if you are in LF then you have the knowledge or you plan to get it soon, destroying sheets makes not much sense.

> In LF the scene is reasonable passive, usually we shot on tripod, with some handheld exceptions (graflex, wanderlust...), but what I shot with a Cambo 8x10 sure it's a reasonably passive scene.


Helge said:
Trouble is, an amateur collect-a-spot average metering will get close enough and will only mostly be a bit worse than incident or reflected,
Click to expand...

Of course it depends on the scene.... but the easiest way to nail the exposure of a sheet is spot metering, you point to the shadows and you place them at the underexposure level you decide, then you point to the highlights to know at what overexposure you will capture them, having the opportunity to decide a development that will place those highlights in the Zone you want.

Using other strategies may also be valid, but you have to make guesses if not knowing the local under/over exposure of the interesting subjects in the scene. Even we may simply use the Sunny 16... An experienced photographer may meter by simply smelling the scene. If you are not experienced enough then better if you spot meter, this is the way you won't get nasty surprises, specially if you shot slides that have to be critically metered.

In LF, spot meter is the way to go when starting. You know what you are doing and you get feedback from the results. It's about taking notes.
 
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craigclu

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Check out the L-718 Sekonic. I have used it successfully in all these modes. The spot attachment is a bit wide at 5° but quite usable. Mine has stayed accurate for many years. Attached is a summary:
 
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