LFF back up!

[PKM-25]

This was different animal, PM sent...

Seriously?? I am constantly bewildered by how folks butt into a FS with random comments, etc. Seems very rude to me, even when well-mannered and well-intended.

Btw, @pkm I'll have to login n check that chsmonix ad once it's back, up!

You won't find it, it got deleted and not very well dealt with in my opinion.

 

[BrianShaw]

FS: Stepladder, one each. Has small amounts of horse manure on the steps but is otherwise servicable. Price: $1,000,000. Net to me; buyer pays paypal fees or pays as "gift" or sends cash in mail (Free shipping to TX only; all others will be quoted at actual cost + 50% handling fee).

 

[removed account4]

Seriously?? I am constantly bewildered by how folks butt into a FS with random comments, etc. Seems very rude to me, even when well-mannered and well-intended.

brian

the for sale area here too. i've been guilty of mentioning that i have xyz and love it, and good luck with your sale ..

that said, i have wished this site and the lff site block user option ... ( like ebay? )
over the years i have sold things here (and there ) and had my for sale page clogged
with 4-5 pages of useless chatter like it was part of the forum.
and even things like " $1000 is too much for that, i'll give you $100 for it"
type comments. gets OLD and fast.

 

[cowanw]

FS: Stepladder, one each. Has small amounts of horse manure on the steps but is otherwise servicable. Price: $1,000,000. Net to me; buyer pays paypal fees or pays as "gift" or sends cash in mail (Free shipping to TX only; all others will be quoted at actual cost + 50% handling fee).

Any pictures?

 

[BrianShaw]

Yup, if the deal isn't good then the goods won't move. That is how commerce works. If overpriced and both buyer and seller are OK withthe deal... well, that's a perfect example of a meeting-of-the-minds. I've paid "too much" for stuff I've bought in the past... and that is my right that nobody should be infringing upon!

 

[BrianShaw]

Any pictures?

Sorry, camera is broken and the outdated film came back from the lab blank. But trust me...

 

[darinb]

) and had my for sale page clogged
with 4-5 pages of useless chatter like it was part of the forum.

Which, I think, gets to the heart of the matter. My view is that the classified *are* part of the forum. It's like a big party, we're all hanging around in small group having conversations, drifting from group to group. Wouldn't it be weird if one group, where they are buying and selling things, didn't allow conversation?

Looks like LFF is hoping to be up soon....

--Darin

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

The site is back up now, at least on Firefox / Windows 7.

Same here, works for me.

 

[analoguey]

Yup. tt's got them updates too

Sent from Tap-a-talk

 

[removed account4]

Which, I think, gets to the heart of the matter. My view is that the classified *are* part of the forum. It's like a big party, we're all hanging around in small group having conversations, drifting from group to group. Wouldn't it be weird if one group, where they are buying and selling things, didn't allow conversation?

Looks like LFF is hoping to be up soon....

--Darin

hi darin

maybe ...
but just the same, i have run into situations where a block user button would be nice.
ignoring them isn't enough ...

 

[analoguey]

John, I think I know what thread you're referring to, but I suppose if nothing else, a mod can help sort it out.
There arent too many threads with that sorta conversation.(in my estimation)

Sent from Tap-a-talk

 

[Old-N-Feeble]

The problem is... it's far too easy for a knowledgeable seller to take advantage of a noob. Sorry, but on a supposedly "friendly" forum that's considered a "supportive environment" for noobs, that's just not right. No way... no how. If sellers want to get every dime they can regardless of market value then let them sell on eBay. APUG is not eBay... APUG is a community created for and intended to support it's members and NOT discourage fledgling analog noobs by making them feel cheated and foolish.

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

The other side of that is you've got forum trolls who just like to stir up trouble and interfere with sellers' ads by arguing about the price of something they have no interest in purchasing. Generally, we regard those sorts of posts as inappropriate on APUG.

If someone is bringing up a legitimate concern about an error in description that the seller seems unaware of ("hey, that lens doesn't actually fit the camera you think it does"), or if someone is just providing additional technical information ("hey, that lens not only fits that camera, but also these other ones too"), that's usually ok here.

 

[Old-N-Feeble]

I think we all understand that, David, but sometimes a noob buyer is caught up in the excitement and loses objectivity. Sellers can and do take advantage of that. APUG's premise is to promote and support current and fledgling analog photographers. How does preventing honest protection of noobs, in any way, supporting analog photography? Those who feel cheated and used by APUG sellers are going to turn away from analog photography forever. How does this support your mission... or this website?

I know I'm treading on thin ice. Posts like this got me banned from LFPI... but this MUST be said.

 

[Roger Cole]

And for something completely different about the LFPF - going over to visit reminds me that I need to get back over there more. Not only is there a lot of LF and general knowledge but some superb image sharing and inspiration. It's worth a look by those who don't shoot and even aren't interested in LF to just appreciate a lot of the work posted, including smaller formats in the Safe Haven and MF B&W threads - I think those who shoot LF often bring a different eye to smaller format work as well. I've been catching up over there and admiring a lot of the work posted.

 

[BrianShaw]

The problem is... it's far too easy for a knowledgeable seller to take advantage of a noob. ...

I feel that every time I buy a car or a home. It is incumbent upon the buyer to self-educate, or hire a rep that is educated.

But I think the incidence rate for noob-abuse is being really over-exagerrated here. But the amount of trolling by people not really interested in negotiating a real transaction may not be.

The perfect sale is just like the perfect compromise - both parties not particularly happy. Their terms are their terms, not ours.

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

In general, sellers here are long time members who have reputations to protect and who just engage in occasional sales. There isn't much in the way of taking advantage of novices that I've seen on APUG. If someone has few posts here on APUG, or if they only post in classifieds, that speaks for itself. In general, we have to look at these things on a case-by-case basis.

If someone is always posting in classifieds and arguing on the price of things they have no intention of buying, or consistently attacking an established seller of otherwise good reputation, then most of the community would see the complainer as the problem, not the solution. If you notice something off base and you think the seller just doesn't know what it's worth, send them a PM. If you think they're doing something intentionally dishonest, then report it to the moderators.

There have been cases where we've banned people for their activity in classifieds, but usually it's a matter of ineptitude (they just can't manage to complete the transaction for some strange reason) rather than dishonesty.

 

[Roger Cole]

I feel that every time I buy a car or a home. It is incumbent upon the buyer to self-educate, or hire a rep that is educated.

But I think the incidence rate for noob-abuse is being really over-exagerrated here. But the amount of trolling by people not really interested in negotiating a real transaction may not be.

The perfect sale is just like the perfect compromise - both parties not particularly happy. Their terms are their terms, not ours.

Caveat emptor has its limitations, I think, but you're right, I don't see a lot of that and I can see it getting to be a problem if people are just making waves and butting in too. This takes some judgment and I haven' noted problems.

I don't see anything wrong with "great camera, love mine, good luck with the sale" (done that myself) or "wish I could afford this" or the like. It gives the seller a bump and can provide at least a bit of information that the model isn't considered junk or the like.

 

[removed account4]

John, I think I know what thread you're referring to, but I suppose if nothing else, a mod can help sort it out.
There arent too many threads with that sorta conversation.(in my estimation)

Sent from Tap-a-talk

it was bad enough that
i had to close the thread,
start another and plead people not to have a conversation in the thread

.. didn't help LOL

BLOCK option would be best so the problem conversations
wouldn't start to begin with because they deter people from buying ...

 

[Old-N-Feeble]

I feel that every time I buy a car or a home. It is incumbent upon the buyer to self-educate, or hire a rep that is educated.

But I think the incidence rate for noob-abuse is being really over-exagerrated here. But the amount of trolling by people not really interested in negotiating a real transaction may not be.

The perfect sale is just like the perfect compromise - both parties not particularly happy. Their terms are their terms, not ours.

Even if my best friend is selling a house or a car I'll pull an unsuspecting noob to the side to try and educate them... that's if I'm darned sure of what I know. This is absolute honesty and integrity... something many of us lack.

 

[Old-N-Feeble]

In general, sellers here are long time members who have reputations to protect and who just engage in occasional sales. There isn't much in the way of taking advantage of novices that I've seen on APUG. If someone has few posts here on APUG, or if they only post in classifieds, that speaks for itself. In general, we have to look at these things on a case-by-case basis.

If someone is always posting in classifieds and arguing on the price of things they have no intention of buying, or consistently attacking an established seller of otherwise good reputation, then most of the community would see the complainer as the problem, not the solution. If you notice something off base and you think the seller just doesn't know what it's worth, send them a PM. If you think they're doing something intentionally dishonest, then report it to the moderators.

There have been cases where we've banned people for their activity in classifieds, but usually it's a matter of ineptitude (they just can't manage to complete the transaction for some strange reason) rather than dishonesty.

I understand that, David. But I know darned well you know what I'm talking about.

 

[StoneNYC]

The problem is... it's far too easy for a knowledgeable seller to take advantage of a noob. Sorry, but on a supposedly "friendly" forum that's considered a "supportive environment" for noobs, that's just not right. No way... no how. If sellers want to get every dime they can regardless of market value then let them sell on eBay. APUG is not eBay... APUG is a community created for and intended to support it's members and NOT discourage fledgling analog noobs by making them feel cheated and foolish.

+1

I don't agree with you as much these days but you're spot on here, I agree it doesn't happen often but it is honorable to say something if it's ridiculously off.

 

[StoneNYC]

And for something completely different about the LFPF - going over to visit reminds me that I need to get back over there more. Not only is there a lot of LF and general knowledge but some superb image sharing and inspiration. It's worth a look by those who don't shoot and even aren't interested in LF to just appreciate a lot of the work posted, including smaller formats in the Safe Haven and MF B&W threads - I think those who shoot LF often bring a different eye to smaller format work as well. I've been catching up over there and admiring a lot of the work posted.

+1

Also they just re-enforced the LF rules and now have separated the "everything else" for tiny format view camera work as well as any other photo sizes, SEPARATE, they have 4x5 and larger only portion, and something about keeping that separate I think will truly bring out the best in the forum, just amazing work.

 

[removed account4]

And for something completely different about the LFPF - going over to visit reminds me that I need to get back over there more. Not only is there a lot of LF and general knowledge but some superb image sharing and inspiration. It's worth a look by those who don't shoot and even aren't interested in LF to just appreciate a lot of the work posted, including smaller formats in the Safe Haven and MF B&W threads - I think those who shoot LF often bring a different eye to smaller format work as well. I've been catching up over there and admiring a lot of the work posted.

hi roger

the safe haven thread has been there since 2008.

now since it is in the main forum it gets noticed more i guess ...

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

In practice, when something is way overpriced, the "noob" tends to be the seller, and the result is that the item doesn't sell unless the price comes down.