Kodak Polytoner and alternative sepia/sulfide toners

[koraks]

If it has lost the deep oranage colour, then it is mostly gone.

Well, the bottle I prepared with persulfate is less orange than the sulfide/sulfur preparation to begin with.

I don't think much was happening anymore with the sulfur/NaOH bottle, so I've added another gram of hydroxide in the hope of getting the remaining sulfur to react as well. I also re-heated the water jacket. It's now like this:

There's also strong ammonia smell then I open the bottle. That may seem odd, but keep in mind that the sulfur I used originated from sulfured out fixer - rapid fixer in this case. So there's some ammonia left in there, evidently.

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

There's also strong ammonia smell then I open the bottle. That may seem odd, but keep in mind that the sulfur I used originated from sulfured out fixer - rapid fixer in this case. So there's some ammonia left in there, evidently.

Ammonia is released in alkaline solutions of Ammonium salts which does indicate the presence of Ammonium Thiosulphate as you suspected.

I don't think much was happening anymore with the sulfur/NaOH bottle, so I've added another gram of hydroxide in the hope of getting the remaining sulfur to react as well. I also re-heated the water jacket. It's now like this:
View attachment 405487
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If I read your earlier post correctly, you used 40 ml water instead of 10 ml water. This could be the reason why the solution doesn't have a deep orange colour.

 

[koraks]

Yes, correct, this is a lower concentration overall.
I've added more sodium hydroxide; it's now 5.0g NaOH to 4.0g sulfur. The solution is presently a fairly deep orange color. This was at around 1:1 weight ratio of both, after letting it sit for a few seconds to let the remaining sulfur settle down:

I'm not sure why, but I seem to need a lot more hydroxide to get all the sulfur to participate in the reaction. The solution is starting to clear now as I continue to add hydroxide. Looks quite similar to dichromate solutions in terms of hue and intensity.

Okay, at 5.2g NaOH to 4.0g of sulfur, the solution seems to have cleared up almost entirely:

The ammonia smell is pretty bad; I suppose I could probably get rid of it if I would leave the bottle open for a while.

Here's the three bottles I prepared together with the bit of remaining sulfur I 'harvested' from broken fixer:

The sulfur/hydroxide preparation is the darkest, but it's also the most concentrated.

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

View attachment 405488

Yes, the colour does indicate the formation of Polysulphides. You may want to do a clip test with it and also with other two concentrates.

 

[koraks]

I tried a scrap of film with your preparation and it certainly does act as a toner. I've not tried the others yet. I have in mind to do some testing but IDK if it'll be for today.

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

I tried a scrap of film with your preparation and it certainly does act as a toner.

Good to hear this.

I've not tried the others yet. I have in mind to do some testing but IDK if it'll be for today.

Sure, if and when you test, I'm sure many here including me will be interested in knowing your experience. And I'll try to remember to ping you after a month to check the condition of the last toner.

 

[koraks]

This is done with the second bottle, so the one I prepared using sulfur and persulfate:

This is an old print on Fomabrom; it was in our hallway for a number of years, but I recently removed it to make space for the postcard exchange. The print was neutral, untoned; I don't recall with certainty what developer I used, but it was most likely ID68. I let the print sit for 20 minutes in the toner, undiluted, with virtually no agitation - so the toning isn't perfectly even. It's always hard to tell from a smartphone pic, but the print has toned to an attractive purple-brown that's typical for how this paper tones in strongly alkaline sepia.

The toner didn't stain or damage the print, although the emulsion feels really soft (unsurprisingly). The damage you see around the edges was pre-existing, which is also true for some small stains along the top edge.

This toner smells distinctly of sodium sulfide, so maybe that means not all the sulfide has converted to polysulfide. I'm not sure. I might try adding some more persulfate and see if it darkens. I have a feeling that might work.

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

That looks good! Thanks for doing the test and sharing the result.

Sulphide toners smell of Hydrogen Sulphide. So it is hard to say anything about the completion of the reaction by smell alone. But if colour is an indicator, you may be right about the need to add more Persulphate.

 

[Guillaume Zuili]

This is done with the second bottle, so the one I prepared using sulfur and persulfate:
View attachment 405495
This is an old print on Fomabrom; it was in our hallway for a number of years, but I recently removed it to make space for the postcard exchange. The print was neutral, untoned; I don't recall with certainty what developer I used, but it was most likely ID68. I let the print sit for 20 minutes in the toner, undiluted, with virtually no agitation - so the toning isn't perfectly even. It's always hard to tell from a smartphone pic, but the print has toned to an attractive purple-brown that's typical for how this paper tones in strongly alkaline sepia.

The toner didn't stain or damage the print, although the emulsion feels really soft (unsurprisingly). The damage you see around the edges was pre-existing, which is also true for some small stains along the top edge.

This toner smells distinctly of sodium sulfide, so maybe that means not all the sulfide has converted to polysulfide. I'm not sure. I might try adding some more persulfate and see if it darkens. I have a feeling that might work.

Looking great. Any scum or milky residue that you had to remove after the wash ?

 

[koraks]

Looking great. Any scum or milky residue that you had to remove after the wash ?

Thanks; no, none at all; it's really clean-working.

 

[skahde]

To make my own polytoner I dissolved and filtered 250 g of potassium-sulfide (pro balneo) in 500 ml. Filtered and buffered it and added a good amount of selenium-toner concentrate. Worked impessively well! If I find my notes, I can give amounts and concentrations.

 

[koraks]

Adding selenium toner is also on my to-do list. Yes, please share your notes if you can find them!

 

[skahde]

Harddrive searched: No results. Will try again tommorow, there is still a chance to find something. Otherwise I will have to try and recreate it.