Kodachrome with Rockland Polytoner colour couplers

480sparky · Apr 13, 2016

I've got a silly question: Let's suppose someone actually manages to get all those fantastic colors we all remember Kodachrome had. Then what?

It's not like you can just go out and start buying rolls of Kodachrome. There's only a limited amount out there, and absolutely NONE of it is still 'unexpired'. I'd venture to say that the bulk of unexposed Kodachrome that still exists today is sprinkled liberally in the landfills of the world.

Sure, someone may have a goodly stash in their freezer, but the bigger issue is that the actual film that demands this process is and will remain unreplenished. So once (and only IF) the Holy Grail of K-14 processing is resurrected, there'll be a veritable orgy of rolls developed, and then....................

...................it will be all over.

Photo Engineer · Apr 13, 2016

As I said, you can do it with 3 sheets of any B&W film if you have the process down.

PE

Gerald C Koch · Apr 13, 2016

Is that Vera Lynn that I hear singing "Wishing Will Make It So" softly in the background?

twelvetone12 · Apr 14, 2016

480sparky said:
Then what?
.

For fun?

Rudeofus · Apr 14, 2016

Athiril said:
There's some Rockland Polytoner kits on the shelf here, curious about trying this out.

Does anybody know whether dyes created by this Polytoner kit are as archivally stable as the ones in Kodachrome?

Stephen Frizza · Apr 14, 2016

Photo Engineer said:
Contact Steve Frizza then, not me.

PE

Too may people contact me about Kodachrome. Its a dead medium.Trying to process it in colour now seems a wasteful excercise to me. I can't help but think there are far better uses of time with currently produed and available materials. Sorry to be a Buzz Kill.

EdSawyer · Apr 14, 2016

I still have some rolls of K25 and K64 in the freezer for when the processing comes back (or for the hopeful who want it in the meantime...) ;-)

Wayne · Apr 14, 2016

Stephen Frizza said:
Too may people contact me about Kodachrome. Its a dead medium.Trying to process it in colour now seems a wasteful excercise to me. I can't help but think there are far better uses of time with currently produed and available materials. Sorry to be a Buzz Kill.

Haha. No buzz kill here, that actually made my day. This is APUG, where nothing ever dies. All the hopeful need is some duct tape, WD-40 and good old-fashioned ingenuity and Kodachrome will surely rise from the ashes.

Photo Engineer · Apr 14, 2016

Stephen Frizza said:
Too may people contact me about Kodachrome. Its a dead medium.Trying to process it in colour now seems a wasteful excercise to me. I can't help but think there are far better uses of time with currently produed and available materials. Sorry to be a Buzz Kill.

Steve, I agree totally. Sorry if I directed a horde of mayflies your way with a myriad of questions.

PE

railwayman3 · Apr 16, 2016

Stephen Frizza said:
Too may people contact me about Kodachrome. Its a dead medium.Trying to process it in colour now seems a wasteful excercise to me. I can't help but think there are far better uses of time with currently produed and available materials. Sorry to be a Buzz Kill.

So far as "serious" photography is concerned, I entirely agree....work with current reliable materials. But if someone wants to enjoy themselves by using their spare time to experiment with processing of Kodachrome, I've no problem with that. (I see no point in using my own time to build matchstick models of the Empire State, but some people enjoy doing that and I respect their patience.)

Arctic amateur · Apr 16, 2016

Just to add to the speculation -- if the three colour layers in Kodachrome are at consistent non-overlapping depth in the emulsion, would it be possible to develop the film as BW, and then devise some kind of scanning procedure that could focus on only one layer at a time?

Something like: scan the top layer, compute what the out-of-focus top layer will look like when scanning the middle layer and subtract that, repeat for bottom layer.

Photo Engineer · Apr 16, 2016

Yes, the images are discrete and non-overlapping.

PE

alexd101 · Apr 16, 2016

I did my first try at developing with the kit today, the results were... Interesting. The bit of film is very dark, so i think my first development should be changed quite a bit. The positive image looks basicly only magenta coloured so i'll work on times for the cyan and yellow steps. Also when disolving the cyan coupler in the developer, it looked as if small globuls of coupler or something were forming and only partially disolved (?) i dont really know and stupidly didnt take a picture. I will post a photo of the finished bit of film very soon.

Athiril · Apr 17, 2016

I would try developing it as a b&w slide, if you get reasonable slides, then you can bleach it back, clear, and wash, then do you re-exposure and colour development steps from there.

Rudeofus · Apr 18, 2016

Athiril said:
I would try developing it as a b&w slide, if you get reasonable slides, then you can bleach it back, clear, and wash, then do you re-exposure and colour development steps from there.

Once you have B&W slides, there should be no spectral sensitization dyes left in your Kodachrome film. It will therefore be very hard to selectively and individually bleach&reexpose these color layers.

Athiril · Apr 18, 2016

Have you tested that?

You can cut the roll into strips for testing like this and apply a suitable first developer to future rolls or rest of the roll when moving on to testing colour dev.

Stephen Frizza · Apr 19, 2016

Photo Engineer said:
As I said, you can do it with 3 sheets of any B&W film if you have the process down.

PE

What you are saying is 100 percent correct. Just to elaborate from my own experiences in doing this, It will work with any black and white film but the colour will not be ideal without considering a few starting points... Black and white films are not engineered with the intention of being converted to a final tri colour positive. It's important to look at the spectral sensitivity of the film you are using before deciding on which film to use this technique on. With this being said appropriate colour filtration is critical. It also requires practices very similar to those learned in Dye transfer printing where correct development and dying of the films is critical or the end result will have incorrect colour. I highly suggest anyone looking to get into this practice first learn dye transfer printing. Hope you don't mind me adding this comment PE.

Photo Engineer · Apr 19, 2016

Not at all Steve. I'm sorry if any of my comments here inconvenienced you.

Best wishes.

PE

Stephen Frizza · Apr 20, 2016

Photo Engineer said:
Not at all Steve. I'm sorry if any of my comments here inconvenienced you.

Best wishes.

PE

No inconvenience I just thought I would expand upon what you shared about tri colour in the thread and hope you didn't mind me doing so.

Photo Engineer · Apr 20, 2016

At this point, your comments are more authoritative than mine are regarding this subject!

PE

alexd101 · Apr 21, 2016

Here are the images, very sorry for the delay. Will be doing more experimentation with the kit very soon. Im doing this A: for abit of fun; I like trying new techniques in photography, and B:Its very relevent to my A level photography unit 3 coursework so it does have a practical use for me personally

Rudeofus · Apr 21, 2016

After asking for archival stability of these rockland polytoner dyes, I did some research of my own. The polytoner kit appears to use N,N-Diethyl-p-Phenylenediamine as color developer. Unlike modern color developers (CD-3, CD-4, but also CD-2 and CD-6), this one does not have a Methyl group in the 3 position, and I have read PE's comments somewhere that this Methyl group improves archival stability of dyes.

I have therefore reason to believe, that Rockland's toners will not create archival prints, and that Kodachrome slides processed with this kit will not last nearly as long as the ones processed in K-14 chemistry.

falotico · Apr 21, 2016

Congratulations to alexd101 for producing the first new Kodachrome images we have seen on APUG for several years. It appears to be a picture of a lounge and a patio table with an outdoor umbrella in the backyard. Am I right?

Any Kodak processed Kodachrome will be the most stable image possible. Back in the day there were competing labs which would also process K film, and often the results from these labs would fade. Kodak perfected the process and--alas!--had to abandon it.

Photo Engineer · Apr 21, 2016

I don't see the images suggested John, nor do I see much color. Really, Steve and others have gotten full, correct color.

And, the images may or may not be stable. I suspect quite unstable.

PE

alexd101 · Apr 21, 2016

The image is suppost to be my cat perched apon the corner of wooden blocks around a plant bed in my back garden hahaha so I guess thats testiment to how bad the experiment went, but then again half the frame was in the clear part of the film anyway so you would never have been able to really see what was there. Theres not alot of discernable colour information as PE has pointed out, however *something* was recorded and developed which is a step in the right direction for my A level project, and i'm happy with that result on day one if i'm honest.

Kodachrome with Rockland Polytoner colour couplers

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