Is there really no way to do ilfachrome/cibachrome printing anymore?

[DREW WILEY]

Oh.. Cibachr never was a reversal process, but a modernization of the "dye destruction" process invented in the 1930's. There are no dye couplers like in chronogenic prints. The final dyes are all to begin with, then after exposure and development, the unexpsed dye is removed with a strong acid "bleach" step. Hence the paper is dark to begin with and comes out with black borders, and requires a powerful exposing light.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Oh.. Cibachr never was a reversal process, but a modernization of the "dye destruction" process invented in the 1930's. There are no dye couplers like in chronogenic prints. The final dyes are all to begin with, then after exposure and development, the unexpsed dye is removed with a strong acid "bleach" step. Hence the paper is dark to begin with and comes out with black borders, and requires a powerful exposing light.

 

[Lachlan Young]

Oh.. Cibachr never was a reversal process, but a modernization of the "dye destruction" process invented in the 1930's. There are no dye couplers like in chronogenic prints. The final dyes are all to begin with, then after exposure and development, the unexpsed dye is removed with a strong acid "bleach" step. Hence the paper is dark to begin with and comes out with black borders, and requires a powerful exposing light.

Yeah, that's what had escaped my brain earlier - the black borders should have triggered my memory - I've evidently spent too much time today digging around in the guts of wide format Epsons...

I did however re-discover the thread that discusses the difficulties involved in coating SDB materials: (there was a url link here which no longer exists)

 

[Levi Porter]

Hi, so I’ve been scouring the web. I recently came upon some ilfochrome film, 35mm perfed, and I’ve been searching for a way to develop it. I sent out a few emails but haven’t heard back from the people who used to make P5 chemicals. So looking at this thread (and some others) all I see are people that are concerned about the actual print process, which makes me wonder is there something that everyone knows that I just don’t? Is there an alternative process for developing the film itself that everyone already knows about and doesn’t talk about?

I’m more concerned about the film development than the print process because I’ll be scanning them in. My ultimate ultimate goal is to slit it and use it in an 8mm cinekodak camera.

 

[Europan]

ultimate goal is to slit it and use it in an 8mm cinekodak camera.

Interesting. Do you have a perforator then?

 

[railwayman3]

I’m more concerned about the film development than the print process because I’ll be scanning them in. My ultimate ultimate goal is to slit it and use it in an 8mm cinekodak camera.

IIRC, it was a very slow copying-type film, quoted at about 1 ASA equivalent. There's an old Data Sheet on http://www.tate.org.uk/download/file/fid/20949

 

[Levi Porter]

Interesting. Do you have a perforator then?

I'm working on creating a sort-of press, based around legos (at least for the main structure) and incorporating some metal for the hole punching part (undecided right now). A standard LEGO brick is just about 16mm wide (the width of double 8mm film and 16mm film.)

IIRC, it was a very slow copying-type film, quoted at about 1 ASA equivalent. There's an old Data Sheet on http://www.tate.org.uk/download/file/fid/20949

Correct. I'm thinking on a sunny day I should be able to get usable results shooting wide open (which is good for having a shallow DOF anyway).

I'm experimenting with reusing different types of microfilms. Ilfochrome is the only color microfilm that I've found so far, and have heard that it has a ridiculously high resolving power.

 

[Mainecoonmaniac]

I've made internegs before and color crossover is sometimes a problem. When you have an interneg with color crossover, it's difficult of impossible to get the color right. What I suggest is to scan the transparency and send it to a printer like Shutterfly. It's not a pure analog print, but if the scan and the printing is good, it's hard to tell that it's the print is made digitally.

 

[Levi Porter]

Right, but how do I develop Ilfochrome microfilm in order to have the transparency itself?
http://www.microcolour.com/ilfochrome.pdf

 

[Photo Engineer]

There are several do-it-yourself formulas posted here.

PE

 

[Levi Porter]

There are several do-it-yourself formulas posted here.

PE

Hey PE, I’ve searched a bunch and this thread was almost what I thought would help:
https://www.photrio.com/forum/threa...he-home-photoclub-amateur.78130/#post-1072795

But by the end it seems like it was actually about paper all along and not actually about the ilfochrome microfilm. P5 Process, I cant find a diy way, but I’m continuing the search.

 

[Photo Engineer]

The microfilm dye bleach process was almost identical.

PE

 

[Gerald C Koch]

There was a post some time ago on another thread that the paper does not keep well even when frozen. Whether this was one person's experience or not I don't remember. If it is true then Ilfovhrome/Cibachrome is essentially dead.

 

[Wayne]

There was a post some time ago on another thread that the paper does not keep well even when frozen. Whether this was one person's experience or not I don't remember. If it is true then Ilfovhrome/Cibachrome is essentially dead.

That was probably me and reflected my experience, but I'm only one person. I dug up this thread because I looked at some of my Ilfochromes and got homesick for it. It either masked my shortcomings better than RA4 does or I was better at it than I am at RA4, or I just liked the look better. I don't miss Kodachrome a bit but tonight at least, I miss Ilfochrome.

I still have some in the freezer from its last years that I will test again someday. I also have some bleach. But I really think the best thing to do is not look back, so that's what I've been doing.

 

[MTGseattle]

was Cibachrome/Ilfochrome an inherently high gloss print? if yes, I feel like I have seen some shops prints on metal that really "popped." I suspect that the few examples I have seen were probably "hdr" though and/or highly post-processed. Although those of you with the skills to make a really nice image on the current positive films may look into having a "metal" print made. I realize this minimizes the hand-made aspects, and the full control of exposure-final print that many of us love, but possibly still an option.

 

[Wayne]

Ilfochrome had what some described as a metallic look.

 

[wiltw]

Hi, so I’ve been scouring the web. I recently came upon some ilfochrome film, 35mm perfed, and I’ve been searching for a way to develop it. I sent out a few emails but haven’t heard back from the people who used to make P5 chemicals. So looking at this thread (and some others) all I see are people that are concerned about the actual print process, which makes me wonder is there something that everyone knows that I just don’t? Is there an alternative process for developing the film itself that everyone already knows about and doesn’t talk about?

I’m more concerned about the film development than the print process because I’ll be scanning them in. My ultimate ultimate goal is to slit it and use it in an 8mm cinekodak camera.

The issue is that 'Ilfochrome' is the name used for TWO VERY DIFFERENT products, and the chemistry is different for each.
'Ilfochrome' was 'Cibachrome', which was a color positive print making paper and chemistry, and the chemistry was a P5 kit (among one of several types of kits for amateur vs. pro lab use).
'Ilfochrome 'was also (later, after the print process disappeared) an E6 chemistry slide film.

[edit]I got confused on the process numbering...the print process numbers for Cibachrome renamed Ilfochrome print paper was P 12, then P 30, P 30P and P 3.

 

[E. von Hoegh]

In a thousand years archaeologists will unearth, deep underground in a secret location, hundreds of boxes of Cibachrome print paper and rolls of Fujifilm Velvia 50, perfectly frozen, preserved, and shielded from radiation. They will have a field day trying to figure out what it all is, and how to use it!

And then they will make their first Cibachrome print. Their heads will explode from how natural it looks, them being so used to the latest 5000 megapixel2 holographic direct-to-brain images that they've never even seen a real piece of paper. And then they will program their replicator machines to produce this new medium in insane quantities. Jetpack-toting hipsters will turn out in droves to take badly overexposed images and print them on Cibachrome using filters to remove all but magenta tones, having cross-processed them in the reverse-engineered C-3767 color process (by Kodak of course, which by this time is still limping along in the form of "Comcast-WesternDigital-Kodak-Alaris" and styling themselves as a "forward-thinking progressive digital holographic dynamic imaging innovator").

And so history repeats itself.

The most disturbingly depressing thing is that hipsters will be here for the next 1000 years.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Ha! The reason the archaeologists will find boxes of Ciba buried with rolls of Velvia is because that's the worst film choice to try to print on it. They buried it out of frustration. Somewhere nearby there's a buried pile of .90 density masks and frightful electrical bills.

 

[mshchem]

Ha! The reason the archaeologists will find boxes of Ciba buried with rolls of Velvia is because that's the worst film choice to try to print on it. They buried it out of frustration. Somewhere nearby there's a buried pile of .90 density masks and frightful electrical bills.

I had my best results with Ektachrome , regular 120 Ektachrome, not warm,vivid ,warm vivid saturated etc.etc. I've never been a big fan of Velvia, Provia-F, now that's lovely slide film. I made some nice Cibachrome prints from some of my Dad's old pre-Kodachrome II slides as well. The gloss was so high you could not physically touch the image with ungloved hand without leaving permanent finger prints.
I will take Portra and Fuji CA paper to make prints. I make 6x6 Provia slides to project, so much fun.

 

[Poisson Du Jour]

Ha! The reason the archaeologists will find boxes of Ciba buried with rolls of Velvia is because that's the worst film choice to try to print on it. They buried it out of frustration. Somewhere nearby there's a buried pile of .90 density masks and frightful electrical bills.

On the contrary (very much), Velvia, Provia, Ektachrome and even Kodachrome printed beautifully to Ilfochrome Classic.

 

[Wayne]

On the contrary (very much), Velvia, Provia, Ektachrome and even Kodachrome printed beautifully to Ilfochrome Classic.

I printed Velvia almost exclusively, you just had to know how and when to expose it (and when not to bother!). Although if the ship hadn't sunk before I really had a chance to shoot much of it, I probably would have gravitated toward Astia eventually.

 

[Poisson Du Jour]

I printed Velvia almost exclusively, you just had to know how and when to expose it (and when not to bother!). Although if the ship hadn't sunk before I really had a chance to shoot much of it, I probably would have gravitated toward Astia eventually.

That's right, but so many, many photographers didn't understand the simple point that was the bedrock of successfully using Velvia and, to a lesser extent, Provia.
There have been plenty of occasions where I had to "not bother" on the pretext of the conditions not being suitable, envisioning the final result as coming in well below par.
I have not used (or seen!) ASTIA here in Australia since 1994.

 

[DREW WILEY]

I've printed plenty of Velvia on Ciba, and done it very well. That's precisely why I have the confidence to call it the worst choice. Almost any other chrome film is more cooperative.

 

[Wayne]

I've printed plenty of Velvia on Ciba, and done it very well. That's precisely why I have the confidence to call it the worst choice. Almost any other chrome film is more cooperative.

But Velvia was your film of choice, wasn't it? Isn't that why you spent so much time learning to mask it?