Is there really no way to do ilfachrome/cibachrome printing anymore?

ChrisBCS · Mar 15, 2017

Hi all. I'm coming back to film photography after a 15 year hiatus. It took that long to figure out the item in the realm of photography on which I place the highest value is the hand craftsmanship throughout the entire process. So it made sense to respark things with film. I have a used 'blad 500 C with an 80mm planar on the way to get back in the game.

Much to my horror, I have discovered... could it be true, the ilfachrome process is no more? No more real, jaw-meet-floor prints from brain-straining palette of Velvia positive color slides? There is no company or individual anarchist out there curating the recipe and making the paper and chemicals?

The world without cibachrome seems a duller place...

pentaxuser · Mar 15, 2017

Not as far as I know but all may not be lost. Have a search on APUG for printing from slides using RA4. This is not the exact title but it should get you there. Landscapes appear to be easier in terms of results than portraiture.

pentaxuser

RattyMouse · Mar 15, 2017

ChrisBCS said:
Hi all. I'm coming back to film photography after a 15 year hiatus. It took that long to figure out the item in the realm of photography on which I place the highest value is the hand craftsmanship throughout the entire process. So it made sense to respark things with film. I have a used 'blad 500 C with an 80mm planar on the way to get back in the game.

Much to my horror, I have discovered... could it be true, the ilfachrome process is no more? No more real, jaw-meet-floor prints from brain-straining palette of Velvia positive color slides? There is no company or individual anarchist out there curating the recipe and making the paper and chemicals?

The world without cibachrome seems a duller place...

Welcome to APUG.

bvy · Mar 15, 2017

Ilford discontinued Ilfochrome around five years ago. There's no direct replacement.

To print slides in the darkroom, the two most painless ways are RA4-reversal and internegatives.

Leigh B · Mar 15, 2017

I made hundreds (?thousands?) of Cibas back when the material was available.

No more. I just sold my Jobo machine. Life goes on. Just b&w now.

- Leigh

dE fENDER · Mar 15, 2017

There is the way still.
Last batch of Ilfochrome paper and chemistry was produced specially for owners Moscow Gallery of Classic Photography at 2015 year. Expiration date is may/july 2016. They still sell paper on ebay, and, perhaps will sell you some chemistry kit. If not - ask PE, he knows how to develop it or simply search the forum.

Some of my photos in DIY chemistry at fresh paper. (flowers was spoiled during incorrect film developing)

afriman · Mar 15, 2017

Those prints look fantastic! They really demonstrate how to use Cibachrome's characteristics to good effect. No matter what anybody says, it's a look that can't be duplicated by any other medium. I am particularly impressed that you produced these with DIY chemistry. Would you mind sharing the formulas?

I do recall some rolls of that last batch of paper being advertised last year. Unfortunately, the price was prohibitive - especially when also considering the cost of shipping.

dE fENDER · Mar 15, 2017

Redfox61 said:
Would you mind sharing the formulas?

Formulae are here, in PE messages, just search.

Wayne · Mar 15, 2017

bvy said:
Ilford discontinued Ilfochrome around five years ago. There's no direct replacement.

To print slides in the darkroom, the two most painless ways are RA4-reversal and internegatives.

i think that's no painless ways. One doesn't give reliably acceptable results for someone coming from cibachrome, and the internegative process is certainly not painless. But thats the way to go if one wants reliably decent results. i will try it one of these years.

bvy · Mar 15, 2017

Wayne said:
i think that's no painless ways. One doesn't give reliably acceptable results for someone coming from cibachrome, and the internegative process is certainly not painless. But thats the way to go if one wants reliably decent results. i will try it one of these years.

Painless is a relative term here. Even so, none of these are going to look like Ciba unfortunately.

keenmaster486 · Mar 15, 2017

In a thousand years archaeologists will unearth, deep underground in a secret location, hundreds of boxes of Cibachrome print paper and rolls of Fujifilm Velvia 50, perfectly frozen, preserved, and shielded from radiation. They will have a field day trying to figure out what it all is, and how to use it!

And then they will make their first Cibachrome print. Their heads will explode from how natural it looks, them being so used to the latest 5000 megapixel2 holographic direct-to-brain images that they've never even seen a real piece of paper. And then they will program their replicator machines to produce this new medium in insane quantities. Jetpack-toting hipsters will turn out in droves to take badly overexposed images and print them on Cibachrome using filters to remove all but magenta tones, having cross-processed them in the reverse-engineered C-3767 color process (by Kodak of course, which by this time is still limping along in the form of "Comcast-WesternDigital-Kodak-Alaris" and styling themselves as a "forward-thinking progressive digital holographic dynamic imaging innovator").

And so history repeats itself.

MattKing · Mar 15, 2017

keenmaster486 said:
And then they will make their first Cibachrome print.

Where are they going to get the bleach?

Wayne · Mar 16, 2017

MattKing said:
Where are they going to get the bleach?

Silly question, really. From Ron's cryogenically preserved head which they find in the underground bunker behind the stacks of instant peel-apart Kodachrome, Velour Black and Haloid.

ChrisBCS · Mar 16, 2017

Thanks everyone. This is depressing as all get out. I've actually never printed from a color negative... In fact, the only color film I've ever done my own darkroom work on has been Velvia 50. So, barring doing internegatives, what are the full analog color neg alternatives that get closest? Most saturated, fine-grained negative color film? Most vivid, eye popping print paper/process?

I feel like I just found a forum full of kindred spirits.

ChrisBCS · Mar 16, 2017

APUGuser19 said:
Yes it is a duller world. The computer has destroyed lots of things.

I have some strong stances on this and I get a lot of pushback. Give a rich dentist/surgeon/hipster with a trust fund a full frame SLR, "what's the best glass I can buy", Lightroom, and a fast computer, and they will get prints that could pass for pro-photographer digital prints. Fight me on this. I stand by it.

One of my favorite art forms to this day, aside from full analog photography, remains tattooing, because from start (building machines by hand), to finish, it is a handmade work of art of pure craftsmanship.

RPC · Mar 16, 2017

I shoot on Ektar 100 and print on Fuji CA II paper and get results I much prefer over Ciba/Ilfochrome. Good contrast and not high contrast. Colors that pop but not oversaturated. Because it is color negative, it is masked and gives more accurate color than prints from slides.

afriman · Mar 16, 2017

ChrisBCS said:
One of my favorite art forms to this day, aside from full analog photography, remains tattooing, because from start (building machines by hand), to finish, it is a handmade work of art of pure craftsmanship.

Which is the essential distinction between digital and analog images. The digital medium is intangible; you can't manipulate pixels by hand the way you can paint, film, photographic paper, a sculptor's stone or a tattoo artist's ink, dyes and equipment.

bvy · Mar 16, 2017

ChrisBCS said:
So, barring doing internegatives, what are the full analog color neg alternatives that get closest? Most saturated, fine-grained negative color film? Most vivid, eye popping print paper/process?

I feel like I just found a forum full of kindred spirits.

The most saturated (if not the finest grain) color prints I've made using traditional RA-4 were from cross-processed Ektachrome. A digital scan doesn't do it much justice, but in person, it's quite impressive (to me at least)...

flavio81 · Mar 16, 2017

ChrisBCS said:
Much to my horror, I have discovered... could it be true, the ilfachrome process is no more?

The ilfochrome/cibachrome materials were very expensive and the process time consuming (when masking was needed). So perhaps it is even cheaper, or similar in cost (compared to making, say, 12 cibachrome prints) to get a really good quality dedicated film scanner and then output digitally to photo paper (i.e. Fuji Frontier process), or to high-quality inkjet printing. Which you can outsource.

The other alternative is reversal RA4 and there are threads on this.

Yet another alternative is internegatives.

And finally, if you want prints... why not negatives?:

RPC said:
I shoot on Ektar 100 and print on Fuji CA II paper and get results I much prefer over Ciba/Ilfochrome. Good contrast and not high contrast. Colors that pop but not oversaturated. Because it is color negative, it is masked and gives more accurate color than prints from slides.

flavio81 · Mar 16, 2017

ChrisBCS said:
Thanks everyone. This is depressing as all get out. I've actually never printed from a color negative...

Then you will be pleasantly surprised that the color negative films of today (2017) are of extremely high quality. You won't be dissapointed.

You can try, for example, Kodak Ektar 100 for vivid saturated colors; Kodak Portra 160/400 for general-purpose high-quality images boasting excellent skin tones.

Moreover in my opinion Portra 160 is already a high saturation film, or at least this is what i thought when I used it the last time (analog prints from 6x7 film).

EdSawyer · Mar 16, 2017

Agreed re: Ektar 100 printed on RA-4 (I prefer cut-sheet Kodak Endura, even though it's expired) is the closest thing to what Cibachrome was back in the day. And a lot easier to print too.

Wayne · Mar 16, 2017

I also printed Ilfochrome from about 95 until it died. I too was heartbroken and devastated. I quit color work for several years to savor my bitterness. And then I pulled my panties back on and started shooting negatives.

You will appreciate how much more manageable the RA-4 process is. And it is much, much cheaper than Ilfochrome was when it died out. It became ridiculously expensive and hard to get. Be glad you missed all of that, and discover what you can do with RA-4. If you are set on duplicating Ilfochrome you're setting yourself up for disappointment. Just learn what it can do, and you'll learn to appreciate and use it to its strengths. And its dirt cheap in comparison.

Prof_Pixel · Mar 16, 2017

I used to love printing my slides on Ansco Printon (back in the late '50s). It's more likely to make a comeback than Ilfochrome.

ChrisBCS · Mar 16, 2017

Thanks folks! I look forward to trying out Ektar 100 and RA-4

Berri · Mar 17, 2017

RA4 prints from ektar 100 on endura metallic are awsome! try it, it'll make you forget ilfochrome

Is there really no way to do ilfachrome/cibachrome printing anymore?

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