Inexpensive 35mm VIEWFINDER cameras with Leica mountS

[jtk]

Careful interviews got virtually perfect Canon P. I got a great one from the unfortunately accursed Cambridge by asking to talk with a salesperson who actually knew about them.

 

[henryvk]

Canon P is not bad but if you want to use the 35 mm framelines you best not be wearing glasses.

 

[xkaes]

Nice cameras for sure, but even at a good price, they are heavier and larger than what I am hoping for. I have a ZAPA (no relation to Frank) on the way from Ukraine, and will give it a whirl. Doing what little I can for the cause.

 

[madNbad]

What lens will you be using? I recently bought a Voigtlander 15 in LTM and thought about adding a dedicated body, just not too seriously.

 

[xkaes]

The Chaika, so far as I know, does not work with LTM lenses. It is the same mount but you need to adapt the Chaika lens to use it on a Leica. I doubt you can adapt (or would want to adapt) Leica lenses to work on a Chaika.

I just received a basically mint Chaika 2M -- which is a Chaika 3 without the meter.

The flange focal length of the Leica 39mm screw mount cameras is 28.8mm. In my somewhat crude measurement of the flange focal length of the Chaika 2m (and I assume other Chaikas), it is somewhere around 28mm. I'll do some more accurate tests/measurements -- but it is easy to assume that it is 28.8mm, as well -- which means I would be all set.

I can sell the Industar lens -- which is also in mint condition -- and recoup half the cost of the camera!

 

[cramej]

Even if the flange to film distance is the same, which I have read it is not, it looks like the next problem is the shallow lens mount. As you focus a LTM lens, the focus cam moves back past the mount. The Chaika looks like it would interfere with focusing.

 

[Don_ih]

According to here, there is 1.3mm difference in the distance.

 

[M-88]

In my somewhat crude measurement of the flange focal length of the Chaika 2m (and I assume other Chaikas), it is somewhere around 28mm.

Russian sources indicate flange focal distance to be 27.5 mm on Chaika 2 and Chaika 3. It's really strange that the lens is removable at all, because there was never made any other lens for Chaika series, except the one that came with it as a kit.

 

[Don_ih]

Russian sources indicate flange focal distance to be 27.5 mm on Chaika 2 and Chaika 3. It's really strange that the lens is removable at all, because there was never made any other lens for Chaika series, except the one that came with it as a kit.

I read the lens was made removable so it could be used in an enlarger, specifically for the Chaika negatives. I never tried it, though.

 

[Helge]

I'm exploring what available as an inexpensive -- but well-built -- 35mm VIEWFINDER (rangefinder not needed) camera -- with either a Leica 39mm screw mount OR a Leica M bayonet mount.

Basically, a Leica M1-type camera -- with either a Leica 39mm screw mount OR a Leica M bayonet mount -- and a LOW price.

A small size would be a BIG PLUS!!!

Any suggestions?

If this is mainly a cost saving measure, and secondly about size, the lenses are going to get in the way of that. Using a long lens with a viewfinder only would be a nightmare or require tripod and measure tape/RF every time.

Get one of the many small viewfinder or RF cameras with a fast, good lens.
The difference to a Leica lens will be very, very small if there at all.

A contemporary to the Leica screw mounts was the Retina. One of those in one of its many iterations would fit the bill.

 

[xkaes]

Russian sources indicate flange focal distance to be 27.5 mm on Chaika 2 and Chaika 3. It's really strange that the lens is removable at all, because there was never made any other lens for Chaika series, except the one that came with it as a kit.

That's great to know. All I need to do is add 1.3mm of "gasket", and I'll be all set. I'll definitely check that out.

As to the Leica LTM focusing tab, that's not a problem because I won't be using those types of lenses.

And the Chaika lenses were made to be used on enlargers -- and they work quite well -- stopped down to f8.

http://www.subclub.org/darkroom/lenses.htm

 

[Don_ih]

All I need to do is add 1.3mm of "gasket"

I don't think you'll be able to thread a LTM lens on if you need to have it spaced out by 1.3 mm. I think that will leave a single thread (or so it looks on the lens I have close to me at the moment).

 

[xkaes]

I don't think I'll have a problem with the spacing. The Chaika 28mm lens has about 3mm of thread on the rear. My Novoflex Leica adapter has about 4mm of thread. When I put the Novoflex Leica adapter on the Chaika, it leaves about 1mm of extra space -- which is almost exactly what I need. I'll have to try to do some more exact measurements and some film exposure test to figure it out, but I think I will just need to add or subtract a tiny amount to the Novoflex Leica adapter.

Here is the Chaika 2M with the Novoflex Leica adapter and a relatively small, Vivitar (Cosina) 19mm f3.8 -- equivalent to about a 28mm on a full-frame 35mm camera -- along with the diminutive Industar 28mm lens.

The Chaika has a viewfinder for composition/aiming, and focusing is pretty irrelevant due to the DOF. The flash shoe is a plus, of course. I also have smallish (but heavier than the camera!) Tamron 17mm f3.5 -- which is more like a full-frame 24mm on a Chaika.

This is pretty much what I was aiming for -- a small, light, inexpensive camera with wide-angle lenses -- basically impossible with half-frame. The Pen goes to 20mm, but the Pen F is large and heavy. The only alternative is wide-angle converters -- which give crappy results.

Looks like I can put off getting that Kodak Ektar H35. I got this Chaika for the same price -- I should say 1/2 the price. I'll sell the Industar lens.

 

[Don_ih]

Looking at my Chaika II, which looks a bit different from yours, it looks like the lens mount can be removed and possibly be shimmed out - although 1.3 mm is a bit far.

 

[xkaes]

If the flange distance on the Chaika is 27.5mm, and on the Leica 28.8mm, there needs to be 1.3mm added to the Chaika -- not removed. My Novoflex Leica adapter adds about 1mm or so because it will not screw in all the way. That almost (?) solves the problem.

 

[Don_ih]

If the flange distance on the Chaika is 27.5mm, and on the Leica 28.8mm, there needs to be 1.3mm added to the Chaika -- not removed

That's what I said: shim out the mounting flange the correct amount, if possible.

I had a Leica III without a mounting flange. When I finally got one and put it on, I ended up shimming it out with two layers of paper to get correct focus. Two layers of paper is quite a bit less than .3 mm.

 

[cramej]

I don't think I'll have a problem with the spacing. The Chaika 28mm lens has about 3mm of thread on the rear. My Novoflex Leica adapter has about 4mm of thread. When I put the Novoflex Leica adapter on the Chaika, it leaves about 1mm of extra space -- which is almost exactly what I need. I'll have to try to do some more exact measurements and some film exposure test to figure it out, but I think I will just need to add or subtract a tiny amount to the Novoflex Leica adapter.

Here is the Chaika 2M with the Novoflex Leica adapter and a relatively small, Vivitar (Cosina) 19mm f3.8 -- equivalent to about a 28mm on a full-frame 35mm camera -- along with the diminutive Industar 28mm lens.

The Chaika has a viewfinder for composition/aiming, and focusing is pretty irrelevant due to the DOF. The flash shoe is a plus, of course. I also have smallish (but heavier than the camera!) Tamron 17mm f3.5 -- which is more like a full-frame 24mm on a Chaika.

This is pretty much what I was aiming for -- a small, light, inexpensive camera with wide-angle lenses -- basically impossible with half-frame. The Pen goes to 20mm, but the Pen F is large and heavy. The only alternative is wide-angle converters -- which give crappy results.

Looks like I can put off getting that Kodak Ektar H35. I got this Chaika for the same price -- I should say 1/2 the price. I'll sell the Industar lens.

View attachment 316043

That is an interestingly convenient solution to the flange difference. Nice!

 

[xkaes]

That's what I said: shim out the mounting flange the correct amount, if possible.

Sorry. My mistake. Anyway, you can probably solve the spacing difference IF your lens or lens adapter has enough thread depth. As I mentioned, the Industar 28mm lens has about 4mm of thread, while my Novoflex adapter has about 5mm. In order to add a shim/gasket/washer of 1.3mm, your lens or lens adapter has to have enough depth in the thread to reach through the extra 1.3mm shim/gasket/washer. That is going to vary from camera to camera, and lens to lens, and lens adapter to lens adapter.

I think the bigger problem is measuring the flange distance down to tenths of a millimeter.

 

[Helge]

God that is a lot of work to brutalize and orphan a crappy Soviet camera from its slightly less crappy lens.
Get the damn Barnack Leica already.
It’s smaller, nicer feeling and will fit any decent M39 lens without any adapters and shimming.

 

[Don_ih]

God that is a lot of work to brutalize and orphan a crappy Soviet camera from its slightly less crappy lens.
Get the damn Barnack Leica already.
It’s smaller, nicer feeling and will fit any decent M39 lens without any adapters and shimming.

Well, I was just thinking how to use the Chaika with an Elmar 35 or 50 - simply because it's a half-frame camera. That's all I'm interested in. There's not enough thread in either of those lenses to shim between the mount and the lens. But shimming behind the lens is only to take out 4 screws and put in 4 slightly longer ones.

 

[Rayt]

The Bessa L is good and cheap but unfortunately it was built that way but it has a TTL meter. For around $150 it’s ok for casual use. For a little more money the Bessa T is much better. It‘s also metered and a rangefinder but no VF. If I am in the market for one now I would look for a Leica MDa. Last time I looked they were bargains. I have gotten pretty good at scale focusing with the 28mm from doing street photograph.

 

[xkaes]

It’s smaller, nicer feeling and will fit any decent M39 lens without any adapters and shimming.

I don't want to use M39 lenses, and I want a small, inexpensive camera -- which I now have.

 

[xkaes]

Well, I was just thinking how to use the Chaika with an Elmar 35 or 50 - simply because it's a half-frame camera. That's all I'm interested in. There's not enough thread in either of those lenses to shim between the mount and the lens. But shimming behind the lens is only to take out 4 screws and put in 4 slightly longer ones.

Are you talking about putting a shim behind the Chaika lens mount? That sounds easy -- with, as you say, perhaps needing longer screws.

 

[Sirius Glass]

God that is a lot of work to brutalize and orphan a crappy Soviet camera from its slightly less crappy lens.
Get the damn Barnack Leica already.
It’s smaller, nicer feeling and will fit any decent M39 lens without any adapters and shimming.

Just get an slr and get rid of the parallax issue at the same time one can see what the framing is, the depth of field for any f/stop one chooses and ir is easier to adjust a polarizing filter.

 

[eli griggs]

The Zorkis and Feds had rangefinders, and they weren't small. Maybe the DRUG -- if I could find one.

Some of the Chaikas might work, but they are half-frame.

I'm not opposed to a rangefinder or a meter, but these tend to make the camera larger.

Perhaps a FED 5B. Anyone have experience with that one?

I've one Fed V b and like the others in that line it's a rangefinder, but with meter.