Ilford XP2 Super in B&W chemicals

[DaveTheWalker]

Hilarious. Summer is approaching . We haven’t even had Spring yet. -10C is forecast for the Easter Weekend. Water out of the tap at best about 10C in real Summer.

Funny, in our (Oxfordshire, UK) village, the water pipes must be really near to the surface - in Winter, it's barely above freezing, and on a hot day in Summer, it's often above 20C straight out of the cold tap and I have to adjust my processing!

 

[Guilherme Mauricio]

FANTASTIC STUFF!

Although I was born in an era of analog photography, I was too young to be able to afford photography as a hobby, and B&W films weren't easily available in Brazil at the time. So I'm new in this analog photography world.

Bought a bunch of different 120 films, a few different developers and I plan to test a few combinations and see the results. Definitely gonna try XP2 in B&W chemicals!
I'll post the XP2 results when I get some.

BTW, a little off topic, but can we have a little chat on scanning? I'm having difficulties with consistency, and since I don't have an enlarger yet, I don't really know where the white and black points fall in order to get the films "real" contrast. Anyway, I'll PM you so we can leave the topic clean.

Awesome stuff indeed, especially when pushed!

Congrats, and please keep us posted!

 

[alentine]

This is definitely unique thread.
Thanks indeed drmoss for sharing.

 

[Down Under]

I have been mesmerized by this thread since it came out. A fine example of photographic lateral thinking at its best...

Maybe it's because I have a huge stock of XP2 (in 35mm and 120) BUT no access to HC-110 in Australia it's no longer available. However... what I do have are ample stocks of is D76, which I use for everything except washing the cats.

Has anyone processed XP2 in D76 and if so, what results can I expect? I could shoot a roll and try it, I reckon, but. But.

(Added later) I read through this entire post when it first came out, and I have again just now read through it again. I will be following Mick Fagan's timely advice (#48), I think.In the next few days. A good way to use up a roll of 120 in my Rolleicord Vb, my walkabout/walkaround camera.

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

Has anyone processed XP2 in D76 and if so, what results can I expect?

I’ve not processed XP2 Super in D76 but I’ve processed it in Adox MQ Borax (replenished) which is a close cousin of D76 and got good results for my scanning based workflow. I rated XP2 Super at 100 and developed for 5.5 minutes at 20C. I would not recommend rating the film higher than 200 as there will be substantial loss of shadow detail in high contrast scenes. Ive noticed loss of speed for this film with another developer as well - Jay Defehr’s Obsidian Aqua.OA also produces good results when the film is rated at 100.

 

[Down Under]

Raghu, many thanks. I plan to go out tomorrow with my Rolleicord and three rolls of XP2, and I'll shoot the same scenes three times at ISO 50,100 and 200. Which will I hope, give me a range of contrast situations to be able to fix my processing plan for future shoots.

I will be using D76 as I have this past week mixed up a new four liter batch of it, but I've intended to try the Adox MQ Borax but haven't yet. I have scales and chemistry at home, so no excuse. I will, soon.

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

With Adox MQ Borax (replenished) I give a developing time of 5.5-6.0 minutes at 20C for XP2 Super rated at 100. Patterson plastic tank. No presoak. Initial 30 seconds agitation and 5 inversions every minute thereafter. Boric acid stop bath. TF4 fixer.

 

[Down Under]

Raghu, thanks for your latest post and information. Alas! I've not yet made it out to the great outdoors due to a combination of events, a bitterly cold spell here in Tasmania, 'flu, and some unexpected business to be dealt with (and sadly, paid for). At my age, I enjoy the delights of long, leisurely (okay, slow) rambles in the countryside (we call it "bush" here, however rural it is) with a not-too-heavy camera (Rollei) in hand and some not too difficult film to work with. Which XP2 certainly looks to be.

I will definitely get out and about this coming weekend and I plan to shoot at least two test 120 rolls then. Going by the good advice of Mick Fagan and others, I will initially shoot a series of same shots at ISO 400, 200, 100 and 50, and then continue my trek into the wilderness at ISO 200 which from what I've read, appears to be the sweet spot for this film/developer combo.

I have the scales and raw chemicals at home to mix up a potful of Adox MQ Borax developer and in fact I've long wanted to test out this developer which many here, notably Ian Grant whose good advice I have long been following, have recommended. So be it. XP2 at 200 and Adox MQ Borax it will be. A new enlightenment dawns.

I have just now spotted another thread by you, Raghu, on archival stability of XP2 processed in B&W chems and I will be reading it as soon as I finish this one and send it off into the universe. So I may yet have more to comment, tho' I'm inclined to wait until I've shot and processed my test rolls before opening my mouth yet again.

So "a bientot", as my French Canadian ancestors would have said. And again, many thanks.

 

[ags2mikon]

I know that I am resurrecting an old thread but I had to try this just because. I rated it at 400 and developed it in DK-50 1:1 for 9.5 min at 20/68 degrees. Came out very good will scan one in the morning and post it. The film was exp in 2016 and I was testing one of my Koni Omega cameras. This was the first time I tried this and was pleasantly surprised.

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

I know that I am resurrecting an old thread but I had to try this just because. I rated it at 400 and developed it in DK-50 1:1 for 9.5 min at 20/68 degrees. Came out very good will scan one in the morning and post it. The film was exp in 2016 and I was testing one of my Koni Omega cameras. This was the first time I tried this and was pleasantly surprised.

Nice! I know from my own experience that XP2 Super gives good results in B&W developers like XTol, PyrocatHD, etc. but really curious to see what results DK-50 gave you.

 

[ags2mikon]

Okay here is my first try. EI 400 DK-50 1:1 9.5 min at 20/68 degrees. Looks like the EI should have been 200-250.

 

[Donald Qualls]

Looks like the EI should have been 200-250.

Might want to shoot a speed test series, but that seems about right. Which, to me, suggests that DK-50 isn't one of the better choices for XP2 Super, since other developers (HC-110, for instance) can get good shadow detail at EI 400. Now I'm curious what FX-55 could do with it -- John Finch showed with testing in video that it gains 2/3 stop with Ilford FP4+ (= EI 200), as opposed to the 2/3 stop loss in D-23 (= EI 80).

 

[flavio81]

Wow, i just revisited this thread!

Who knew XP2 Super was actually a fantastic "standard" B&W film too?!

I see great results really.

 

[drmoss_ca]

Well here's a blast from the past! I got an e-mail notification of life on this thread. I moved house six months ago and very little is unpacked and the house is still a construction zone, hence no photography. One of these days the Big Freezer of Film will be opened and life will resume...

 

[ags2mikon]

drmoss_ca, Thanks for starting this thread so long ago. I inherited a large stash of film when a friend passed away, most of it was out of date or close to exp. date. I looked in the past and found this thread and decided to give it a go. Thanks to your hard work, I had a starting point to go from. I will be going out tomorrow and doing some more testing. This film is 2016 exp. date so if it does not work no big deal.

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

This film is 2016 exp. date so if it does not work no big deal.

Treated as a regular B&W film, 2016 expiry shouldn't be a factor unless it was stored badly as there are no dyes involved in the image making. Giving it a stop or two more exposure and developing for shorter time should give you very decent results.

 

[koraks]

Nothing to stop me using some C-41 stabiliser after the PhotoFlo, but I often find myself using PhotoFlo on colour negatives after the stabiliser

Stabilizer doesn't do much if you follow it by photoflo. If you do this, the flo will just rinse off the stabilizer, which you might as well have skipped. The opposite is also true and since stabilizer generally already contains a surfactant, it's not a very sensible approach either. If the stab gives you trouble, you could try a few drops of formalin 40% added to your flo which accomplishes the same as the stab, but of course at the cost of the toxicity issues of formalin. Otherwise just leave out the stab altogether; if properly stored your negatives will outlive you, I'm not worried about that at all.

 

[Donald Qualls]

Formalin stabilizer isn't needed for XP2 Super in either process anyway. C-41 films made since around 2000 have self-stabilizing emulsions. Most current C-41 kits have a "final rinse" that's effectively just PhotoFlo with a little antifungal additive and contains no formalin at all.

Formalin is required for C-22 and early C-41 films, as well as E-4 and E-6, to ensure the dyes are fully converted (or so I've read).

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

Stabilizer doesn't do much if you follow it by photoflo. If you do this, the flo will just rinse off the stabilizer, which you might as well have skipped. The opposite is also true and since stabilizer generally already contains a surfactant, it's not a very sensible approach either. If the stab gives you trouble, you could try a few drops of formalin 40% added to your flo which accomplishes the same as the stab, but of course at the cost of the toxicity issues of formalin. Otherwise just leave out the stab altogether; if properly stored your negatives will outlive you, I'm not worried about that at all.

Stabiliser is used only in C41 processing where the negative is a dye image. It's not needed for film developed as a regular B&W film where the negative is a silver image. Silver is itself a fungicide.

 

[koraks]

Yeah, you're right. I was still stuck at the C41-developed negatives. My bad.

 

[pentaxuser]

Yes it appears that using b&w developers reduces the flexibility of the range of speed that XP2 Super gives with C41 so in b&w developers even 400 is a "push" for it and 800 or 1600 leaves a lot to be desired compared to C41

Just out of interest has anyone tried it and got examples in Microphen at 400 or better still 800 and 1600?

Thanks

pentaxuser

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

So, (and thank you OP!), no wet printing calibration yet from any forum member?

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

Even though Chris' images are negative scans, I agree they show great tone, and to me they indicate wet printing would be more than possible, even pushing, and that's great news no doubt.
I can't get XP2 easily, or I'd be playing with it today.
Thanks a lot to Chris for such an organized share of relevant information.

 

[cptrios]

I've shot a lot of this and developed it in HC-110, and when the results are good they're great. Super low grain, even pushed to 1600. Unfortunately, when pushing you really have to meter for shadows (thus somewhat defeating the purpose) since they tend to get a bit crushed. Last year I bought a whole ton of expired rolls of unknown prior treatment, and I think they've been a bit rougher than I know the film can be. Especially problematic is a tendency for the purple coloration to not clear so well from the edges of the film, resulting in my needing to use lots and lots of gradiated filtering in LR.

Here are two shots that do a pretty good job of showcasing the film's good and bad qualities. Both are pushed to 800 and developed in HC-110 Dil E. The first is from a fresh roll, the second is from one of the iffy ones. I didn't do a great job scanning either, frankly.



Also, pulled to 200 it's practically grainless and might as well be a BW-converted digital file:

 

[Helge]

Shot a roll of XP1 the other day, at box speed. Expiry date in august 1994! Only kept fridged the last three years or so.

Developed in XTOL 1:1.

Results were surprisingly good. In fact I’d say shockingly good. This stuff keeps like nothing else. A little bit of fog but not something that would be a hindrance to printing or scanning. It shaved the bottom of the range off the range though of course.

The purple halation backing is something else though. Fifteen minutes of washing was not enough to get it off. Tried re-fixing to see if that would help.
Strangely it kind of bleached off on its own after a few days. There is only a faint uneven trace now.