Ilford XP2 Super in B&W chemicals

[Photo Engineer]

You have discovered the secret!

 

[Don Harpold]

XP2 is a chromogenic film. There is no advantage whatsoever in treating it as a conventional film. Why not get some missile tracking film, develop it is rat piss, and fix in pool chemicals?

So you shouldn't try anything different? Do it your way or no way?
Please tell me how I should develop MY film.

 

[1kgcoffee]

Still prefer the look of normal B&W but very nice!

 

[pentaxuser]

Still prefer the look of normal B&W but very nice!

I confess to being not at all sure that if no mention of the pictures being C41 B&W processed in B&W chemicals had been made that I would have had no other comment to make other than "nice prints"

pentaxuser

 

[drmoss_ca]

Today I did the last film in my push-pull experiments with XP2. It did very well at ISO 100. Nice negatives to scan, with contrast easily added back. In fact, this might become my favourite slower film!

K2, 2/55, XP2, ISO 100, HC-110, X1 scans.

Bayhead 1865 by chrism229, on Flickr


Mooring Lines by chrism229, on Flickr

 

[Svenedin]

Very interesting experiments and good results. I remember reading about the use of standard B&W developers with Ilford XP1 in the photography magazines of the early 1990's. I did try it but I was rather underwhelmed. I think it was regarded as something of an "emergency" form of development if for some reason C41 was unavailable. At that time there were a lot more choices of film and I was too in love with very slow Agfa films to persevere. It may well be that "XP2 Super" gives much better results in B&W developers than XP1 did but that the early experiences with XP1 have formed the received wisdom.

Great to see you are using an evidence-based approach to your experiments. Reminds me of H. pylori and ulcers. I was taught they were caused by worry and spicy food. What a load of claptrap that was! I noticed that you have had some extra time for photography due to illness. I hope you are recovered. I started using film again when I was off work after having a thyroid tumour removed. I very quickly became extremely bored and disgruntled at home -I was the worst patient imaginable. Film photography got me out of the house on gradually lengthening walks but also meant I could develop films and print when I didn't feel up to going out. It's highly therapeutic.

Regards,

Stephen

 

[drmoss_ca]

That's an interesting point. The film I used today was rolled in China, but says it was made in England, and was briefly sold by Freestyle as a generic XP2. It's not Kodak as it has a purple base rather than orange, and I don't think the Fuji chromogenic film is made in the UK. It must have come from Ilford, and I wonder whether it was rejected XP2 Super, or leftover XP1, XP2, or XP2 Plus. I've used proper Ilford XP2 Super in 35mm and 120 as well as this mystery film in B&W chemicals, and I can't really see any differences between them.

You're right that docs don't generally make good patients! I had a Binet stage 3 CLL, and got a partial remission from FCR chemo. Just waiting to see how long I can go before it comes back.

Chris

 

[pentaxuser]

That's an interesting point. The film I used today was rolled in China, but says it was made in England, and was briefly sold by Freestyle as a generic XP2. It's not Kodak as it has a purple base rather than orange, and I don't think the Fuji chromogenic film is made in the UK. It must have come from Ilford, and I wonder whether it was rejected XP2 Super, or leftover XP1, XP2, or XP2 Plus.

You're right that docs don't generally make good patients! I had a Binet stage 3 CLL, and got a partial remission from FCR chemo. Just waiting to see how long I can go before it comes back.

Chris

On face value it sounds as if Ilford released or had stolen from it a rejected film. Having been there on 2 visits I am having difficulty imagining how theft could have taken place which leaves a form of "off-loading" Ilford has said time and time again that it does not do such things and I am inclined to believe it.

There are members here who believe that such nefarious actions are undertaken by film companies, although Ilford is not usually cited as a culprit. One member that springs to mind can probably smell this kind of nefarious action at a 1000 yards downwind. I await his arrival to this thread

pentaxuser

 

[Svenedin]

That's an interesting point. The film I used today was rolled in China, but says it was made in England, and was briefly sold by Freestyle as a generic XP2. It's not Kodak as it has a purple base rather than orange, and I don't think the Fuji chromogenic film is made in the UK. It must have come from Ilford, and I wonder whether it was rejected XP2 Super, or leftover XP1, XP2, or XP2 Plus. I've used proper Ilford XP2 Super in 35mm and 120 as well as this mystery film in B&W chemicals, and I can't really see any differences between them.

You're right that docs don't generally make good patients! I had a Binet stage 3 CLL, and got a partial remission from FCR chemo. Just waiting to see how long I can go before it comes back.

Chris

All the very best of luck for a prolonged remission.

 

[cowanw]

Ditto

 

[drmoss_ca]

I can't help myself! I had to try ISO 50 as well (4 minutes in 1+49 HC-110, continuous agitation in a motorised Rondinax):


Rudbeckia by chrism229, on Flickr

I don't see much advantage over exposing it at 100, but still pleasing.

 

[Don Harpold]

Hello
Bringing this one back up
I ran some XP2 through my freshly serviced Minolta Autocord that I received back from Karl Byran.
I shot it a 400 and developed in HC110 for 10 minutes agitation 1 minute and then 10 seconds each minute water stop and fix in TF4 for 7 mins.

Chris
I read your page on developing XP-2 in B/W chems and wanted to know if you got similar results with normal agitation as I don't have a rodinax or a way to do constant agitation.
Did you finalize on 7 mins for EI200? or stay at 6:30 mins.

Here are a couple from the recent roll, as you stated these are easy to scan, I am using a V800 for mine and minor adjustments in my PS Elements2

Tire

Pipe

growth

 

[pentaxuser]

Like the earlier shots I commented on, these look fine as well in B&W chemicals. I suppose the pertinent questions are: Do you still get the lack of grain that you would get with C41 chemicals and do actual prints from chromogenic B&W C41 negs processed in trad B&W chemicals look better/as good/ worse than those prints from chromogenic negs processed in C41?

How do the prints from either process with a chromogenic film compare to a trad film in trad B&W chemicals?

pentaxuser

 

[drmoss_ca]

Don,
Those look very fine! It seems to work OK with intermittent agitation, and sometimes I think I need a bit less time with the continuous agitation of the Rondinax, but mostly I just forget and use my standard times. And, yes, I give ISO 200 seven minutes instead of six and a half - by coincidence I did exactly that yesterday, also using a TLR like you.

pentaxuser,
The grain is very fine indeed, just as you would expect, and the negatives look very much like they do after C-41 processing, always with some degree of purple hue (more noticeable in 35mm than 120). They print fine, but you do have to allow for rather longer exposures than you might guess at, again because of the purple base.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

highly interesting and thanks for sharing!

 

[Eric Rose]

Very pleasing results! Being an audio nerd myself I really enjoyed your photos of all the sound gear. I have a bunch of Quad stuff as well. Love the sound. Now onto the subject at hand. I wonder how this would work with PyroCat-HD? Any thoughts from the collective genius of Photrio?

 

[Craig]

You're the pyro guy Eric, you'll have to try a roll and see. Be very interesting to shoot it beside a roll done in C41 and see what the difference is.

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

I wonder how this would work with PyroCat-HD?

Don't know about Pyrocat-HD but XP2 Super (both 135 and 120) works quite well with Jay Defehr's Obsidian Aqua in my experience. Rating the film at 200 or even 100 for high contrast scenes helps retain shadow details.

 

[Eric Rose]

Thanks Raghu

 

[jon.oman]

Question: Nowhere in this thread have I seen processing temperature for XP2 in B&W chemicals. Is it the standard 68 degrees F.? Or, can it be processed at 86 degrees as well? I ask because summer in South Carolina is approaching. Water temps coming out of the tap are normally between 82 to 84 degrees. It would be nice to have a film that I can develop during the summer, without trying to cool things down to 68 degrees standard development. I also do not want to process in C-41 chemistry. Just trying to keep things simple!

 

[Svenedin]

Hilarious. Summer is approaching . We haven’t even had Spring yet. -10C is forecast for the Easter Weekend. Water out of the tap at best about 10C in real Summer.

 

[drmoss_ca]

Question: Nowhere in this thread have I seen processing temperature for XP2 in B&W chemicals. Is it the standard 68 degrees F.? Or, can it be processed at 86 degrees as well? I ask because summer in South Carolina is approaching. Water temps coming out of the tap are normally between 82 to 84 degrees. It would be nice to have a film that I can develop during the summer, without trying to cool things down to 68 degrees standard development. I also do not want to process in C-41 chemistry. Just trying to keep things simple!

My apologies. I assumed a processing temperature of 20ºC (I believe just about one country in the entire world still persists in describing that as 68ºF). No doubt it can be processed at 30ºC/86ºF, but I haven't explored the times. Pretty much all our processing can be done at any temperature you like, but you have to know the time it will take. For example, I experimented with C-41 at room temperature (20ºC to most of the world, but probably 68ºF to you) and found it took 50 minutes with the CD diluted 1+5 instead of 3.5 minutes at full strength and 39ºC/102.5ºF, so there was no benefit as I could heat the chemicals to normal C-41 temperature and develop the film in less than 50 minutes.

 

[jon.oman]

Hilarious. Summer is approaching . We haven’t even had Spring yet. -10C is forecast for the Easter Weekend. Water out of the tap at best about 10C in real Summer.

We have had some 80 degree days recently (that's 26.6667 degrees for the rest of the world). Of course, we have had nighttime temps in the low 30's as well (1.11111 for you). So, up and down.

 

[jon.oman]

My apologies. I assumed a processing temperature of 20ºC (I believe just about one country in the entire world still persists in describing that as 68ºF). No doubt it can be processed at 30ºC/86ºF, but I haven't explored the times. Pretty much all our processing can be done at any temperature you like, but you have to know the time it will take. For example, I experimented with C-41 at room temperature (20ºC to most of the world, but probably 68ºF to you) and found it took 50 minutes with the CD diluted 1+5 instead of 3.5 minutes at full strength and 39ºC/102.5ºF, so there was no benefit as I could heat the chemicals to normal C-41 temperature and develop the film in less than 50 minutes.

Actually, I would like to develop XP2 in black and white developer at 86 degrees F. (30 Celsius), not in C-41. So, if it takes 10 minutes at 20 Celsius, it should take maybe 5 minutes at 30 Celsius. I know I would have to determine the actual time for that temp, and a working dilution. Anyway, it would allow me to develop film without having to ice things down first. If anyone has done this, what is the quality of the negative? Is it acceptable?

 

[John Wiegerink]

Actually, I would like to develop XP2 in black and white developer at 86 degrees F. (30 Celsius), not in C-41. So, if it takes 10 minutes at 20 Celsius, it should take maybe 5 minutes at 30 Celsius. I know I would have to determine the actual time for that temp, and a working dilution. Anyway, it would allow me to develop film without having to ice things down first. If anyone has done this, what is the quality of the negative? Is it acceptable?

I would think 86F should just fine. In fact it might even be better than fine. I'm sure somebody here has reached close to that temp. JohnW