Ilford priced to leave Japan

[DREW WILEY]

A commodity in one part of the world can be a specialty item in another, warranting a higher price. No different than cheese, wine, and olive choices
at a deli.

 

[RattyMouse]

A commodity in one part of the world can be a specialty item in another, warranting a higher price. No different than cheese, wine, and olive choices
at a deli.

Can you cite an example?

 

[DREW WILEY]

Just did. I can drive down the street where they've got three hundred kinds of cheese, and maybe sixty varieties of heirloom tomatoes and potatoes
etc, besides the ordinary supermarket types. Designer beers too. Do you think a specialty Gouda imported from Holland is going to be priced like
an analogously unique cheese produced twenty miles away? Conversely, you might pay a small fortune for a block of California cheese in Holland.
Certain machinery manufacturers I deal with, or distribute, consider the US a major market and sell their products here more cheaply than in their
own country, based on long-term sales potential. Or they might do it because US currency is more stable in most other countries and not such a wild
card. On the other hand, there are product lines people pay double for here, because US users are largely unaware of them, or juar have different work customs. Otherwise, I have no way of knowing what constitutes an heirloom tomato brand of a film in Japan, versus an ordinary tomato, except
that it's Fuji's home turf, and not Ilford's. I do run into a lot of wealthy Chinese tourists around here who not only know what view cameras are for,
but certainly know one Kodak sheet film from another.

 

[mnemosyne]

Hm. When I compare current Kodak and Ilford retail prices in Japan, the Kodak varieties are a bit less expensive for sure, but the prices are comparable (like 900 Yen vs 1100 Yen or so for a roll). Prices seem to have almost doubled over the past couple of years, but this appears to be the case for both Ilford and Kodak? And IIRC, Ilford was always a bit more expensive in Japan than Kodak. So if anything, it seems more like both Ilford and Kodak could be trying to exploit the lack of competition from Fuji in the b&w film market and are testing what price level the customers will accept before demand takes a dive?

 

[AgX]

Hm. When I compare current Kodak and Ilford retail prices in Japan, the Kodak varieties are a bit less expensive for sure, but the prices are comparable (like 900 Yen vs 1100 Yen or so for a roll).

Thus we are mislead by the OP?

 

[mehguy]

Honestly, prices in Canada are insane aswell. In the past year or so the prices just gradually creep up to a point where, the 1L bag of D76 costs the same as the 1 Gallon. Now how does that make any sense?

 

[mooseontheloose]

Thus we are mislead by the OP?

No, see quote below and the OP. Films are slightly higher, but we're not just talking films here - what has been priced out of most people's budgets is their paper and chemicals.

Actually their films aren't that far off Kodak and Fuji (in Japan at least). What really doesn't make any sense is their paper and their chemicals.

 

[Christopher Nisperos]

Not quite I'm afraid. Ilfotec HC, my favourite developer, is over 50 EUR in Germany. Ilford paper is also much deared outside of the UK.

I agree with Miha ... Here in France prices for HP5+ 135-36, for example, can be found as high as 9 euros per roll (currently equal to about $10.20). Sure, some places sell it cheaper, but you have to search them out. As for Ilford chemicals, I'm even looking around at this moment for a formula to make up my own developer for my Ilford 2150RC machine (I currently have a thread on it on this site). Ilford wants 89 euros ($100.) for 3 liters of developer and 3 liters of fixer.

I like Ilford .. really, I do. I've been on board as a customer ever since the 1970s when, as an teen-aged photographer and employee in a camera store after school (which continued, on and off, the better part of my young adult life) I sold the HELL out of Ilford product, once even winning a sales contest for Galerie paper. Today, I still do what I can to support them. But as a hobbyist who isn't rich, my loyalty has a limit. I've got to shop around like any consumer. I realize that they have to survive —and I will continue to support them— but I only hope they don't shoot themselves in the foot with these drastic price rises on an international level, with no reasonable explanations to their buying public

I miss Simon Galley, who would be appearing here by now to put out this little fire before it turns to a blaze.

 

[AgX]

I miss Simon Galley, who would be appearing here by now to put out this little fire before it turns to a blaze.

I would not expect too much from him. See post #2.

 

[Christopher Nisperos]

I would not expect too much from him. See post #2.

You may be right ... but know what? At least he was here, saying something! This topic has been up since the 12th. Today is the 20th. Where are they? It's a pity that the new management has such a short memory, merde! If their strategy has changed (giving less priority to APUG), perhaps they've already forgotten how APUG'ers were there —responding with their money, not just words— when Ilford first decided to sell weird cut-film sizes directly to the consumer. I won't say that we helped "save their butt", but I imagine that the response from APUG members contributed measurably to help them get back on their feet at that time.

 

[Diapositivo]

Not all commercial strategies can be discussed in a public forum.
Let's imagine that Ilford is preparing to sell in bulk film to be sold with white labels. They would, maybe, first raise prices and soon after come out with an alternative, cheap product which will be sold with different brands.
The new "Seagull" sold in Japan by Ilford distributors might, who knows, be exactly that.

A double brand Ilford / Ketnmere strategy. Kentmere products are not sold in many countries. Maybe they are just preparing to sell Kentmere in Japan and in European countries, either as Kentmere brand, or as white label film.

 

[Christopher Nisperos]

Not all commercial strategies can be discussed in a public forum. ....

Agreed, Fabrizio, and that's not what I am saying.

 

[unityofsaints]

Hm. When I compare current Kodak and Ilford retail prices in Japan, the Kodak varieties are a bit less expensive for sure, but the prices are comparable (like 900 Yen vs 1100 Yen or so for a roll).

That's a 22% price difference, I'd call that significant. Look at it this way, per 100 rolls you're paying about 200$ more for Ilford vs. Kodak.

 

[RattyMouse]

That's a 22% price difference, I'd call that significant. Look at it this way, per 100 rolls you're paying about 200$ more for Ilford vs. Kodak.

That's suicide pricing from Ilford.

 

[Harman Tech Service]

I’ve been asked to pass on a message from our Sales Director who is not currently on APUG but does monitor it.
-David.

“We note your concern for the pricing of our products in Japan. To be clear, HARMAN is not intending to exit our ILFORD products from Japan, but we also cannot define the pricing of our distributor there as a number of you have pointed out.
At Photokina, I will be meeting directly with our Japanese distributor and will raise these concerns with them as part of a wider discussion.

Finally I apologise for the delay in responding - you caught us out a little due to holiday season in the UK - but please be assured we are looking into this.

Kind Regards,
Giles Branthwaite"

 

[Prest_400]

Prices seem to have almost doubled over the past couple of years, but this appears to be the case for both Ilford and Kodak? And IIRC, Ilford was always a bit more expensive in Japan than Kodak. So if anything, it seems more like both Ilford and Kodak could be trying to exploit the lack of competition from Fuji in the b&w film market and are testing what price level the customers will accept before demand takes a dive?

IDK how Colour film is faring nowadays in Japan but I saw a picture of the famous Yodobashi refrigerator and prices were higher than some good places in Europe and I recall watching online that prices were steeper. IIRC Jon Canlas posted something along these lines and mentioned how in the US it was all lower priced nowadays.
Exchange rate wise, I was surprised to find after a while that Yen-Euro has strengthened in favour of the Japanese. Not so long ago (7mo according to XE) 140¥=1€ and now it is down to 110¥=1€

 

[Ai Print]

I’ve been asked to pass on a message from our Sales Director who is not currently on APUG but does monitor it.
-David.

“We note your concern for the pricing of our products in Japan. To be clear, HARMAN is not intending to exit our ILFORD products from Japan, but we also cannot define the pricing of our distributor there as a number of you have pointed out.
At Photokina, I will be meeting directly with our Japanese distributor and will raise these concerns with them as part of a wider discussion.

Finally I apologise for the delay in responding - you caught us out a little due to holiday season in the UK - but please be assured we are looking into this.

Kind Regards,
Giles Branthwaite"

Thanks for your reply, I am sure I am not the only one who appreciates it.

Keep up the good work and best of luck at Photokina!

 

[Ozxplorer]

At Photokina, I will be meeting directly with our Japanese distributor and will raise these concerns with them as part of a wider discussion.

Finally I apologise for the delay in responding - you caught us out a little due to holiday season in the UK - but please be assured we are looking into this.

Kind Regards,
Giles Branthwaite"

Giles, just following up... As the topic is about what many regarded as excessive price increases in Japan, I wonder about the outcome of your discussions with your Japanese distributor in respect of the recent Ilford Japan "price gouge" reported earlier in this thread? Thank you, Fred

 

[jeztastic]

BTW, anytime you buy from Harman Express they give you free next day delivery for purchases over £50.

I agree, and once you are on their mailing list they do 10% discounts and the like every so often. I wait till this comes around and then stock up.

 

[Harman Tech Service]

Reply from our Sales Director.
-David.

Thanks for the follow up Fred. We had a productive meeting with Cyber Graphics, our Japanese distributor and, as promised, we raised the issue that has been shared on this forum regarding pricing. While I'm not at liberty to share the details of these confidential conversations, they clarified that prices were raised due to market factors including exchange & import rates plus dealer margins. Unfortunately, there is no short term solution to this and we appreciate this is not ideal for our customers. However, we will be following up on this topic to keep customer price concerns on their radar moving forward.

Kind regards,
Giles Branthwaite

 

[ericdan]

Thanks for following up on this Giles.
It is indeed unfortunate for us in Japan. The solution for me will be to continue to order your products abroad.

The packages I receive from the US or Europe all have contents clearly labeled and I have not been charged any new import tax.
I personally know several Japanese people who order from a retailer in New York. I assume Cyber Graphics will start feeling this at some point.
Maybe then they raise prices again to offset "shrinking" demand.

 

[Ozxplorer]

Reply from our Sales Director.
-David.

Kind regards,
Giles Branthwaite

Giles, thank you for your quick response. Much appreciated. Fred

 

[RattyMouse]

Reply from our Sales Director.
-David.

Thanks for the follow up Fred. We had a productive meeting with Cyber Graphics, our Japanese distributor and, as promised, we raised the issue that has been shared on this forum regarding pricing. While I'm not at liberty to share the details of these confidential conversations, they clarified that prices were raised due to market factors including exchange & import rates plus dealer margins. Unfortunately, there is no short term solution to this and we appreciate this is not ideal for our customers. However, we will be following up on this topic to keep customer price concerns on their radar moving forward.

Kind regards,
Giles Branthwaite

With the pound sinking to record levels, I would think that the exchange rate would make Ilford products more affordable from the dealer's end. They use yen to buy British film and so can buy more with less.

Kodak should be equally affected by exchange and import rates too. Do their dealers operate on less margin?

 

[AgX]

Kodak should be equally affected by exchange and import rates too. Do their dealers operate on less margin?

We have raised this question from the start of this thread and after 100 posts including statements by Harman we did not get wiser...

 

[ericdan]

We have raised this question from the start of this thread and after 100 posts including statements by Harman we did not get wiser...

FX changes don't have any immediate impact I think. If you sell products internationally you buy FX forwards to guarantee your price is stable over a period no matter where the FX rate moves.
Anyways, Kodak and Ilford films are equally expensive in Japan. What I find outrageous is that Ilford chemicals sell at 5x the price!!
Five times!