Help Choosing a Sub-Compact 16mm Camera

[Cholentpot]

The bridge probably is not critical, which is good because it is easily broken. There are folks who say they have shot a Minolta by just loading the film in a darkroom, taping it to the take-up spool and putting the coiled supply in the supply side, no cassette at all — a bit cumbersome but it would work I guess.

I'm going to try this with a roll. Light leaks may be an issue but it can't hurt to try.

 

[Patrick Robert James]

It is a shame that no one ever made a really full featured 16mm/110 type camera.

I ended up getting a Rollei E110 which is really nice, but the shutter is intermittent. Which means it usually doesn't fire. I hear a click and the blades seem to move but they don't open. I am assuming something inside is dirty. I was wondering if anyone has ever opened one up? I was thinking about sending it to DAG but I don't think it is worth it.

 

[ciniframe]

It is a shame that no one ever made a really full featured 16mm/110 type camera.

I ended up getting a Rollei E110 which is really nice, but the shutter is intermittent. Which means it usually doesn't fire. I hear a click and the blades seem to move but they don't open. I am assuming something inside is dirty. I was wondering if anyone has ever opened one up? I was thinking about sending it to DAG but I don't think it is worth it.

I think the closest to a ‘full featured’ 16mm was the Mamiya 16 Super and Super III. They were a 10X14mm format with a 25mm f3.5 lens with front element focusing by scale to one foot. The lens stops down to f11. The shutter went from 1 sec. to 1/200 sec. plus ‘B’ and the shutter release was fitted for a standard mechanical cable release, they also had a standard 1/4-20 tripod socket (that strangely was also the flash sync connector, go figure.)
Trouble is, if you think Minolta 16 cassettes are hard to source and expensive then just multiply that by 4X for Mamiya 16 cassettes.
That is one major caveat, the other is that 25mm on a 10x14 format has about the same angle of view as 60mm on full frame 35mm. So, a ‘long standard’ lens. To get more in you will be backing up....a lot.
The film advance is simple and direct so usually no problems there. Shutter timing is mechanical and although easy to open and clean the aging mechanical system is still problematic.
Heavy, mostly all metal, very compact with a collapsible wire frame finder.
So, as with many things, a mixed bag. You get, but you also give.

 

[ciniframe]

You know what folks? Look at it this way.
We, who have chosen to shoot 16mm are just a bunch of brave, intrepid, do-it-yourself photographers.

At least that’s my story, and I’m sticking to it.

edit#1 For shooting 16mm one reason I never liked 110 was, no full mechanical exposure control on cameras with faster lenses. And, the 110 cassettes were hard to reload. Whereas Minolta 16 cassettes are simple and easy to reload.

 

[Cholentpot]

You know what folks? Look at it this way.
We, who have chosen to shoot 16mm are just a bunch of brave, intrepid, do-it-yourself photographers.

At least that’s my story, and I’m sticking to it.

edit#1 For shooting 16mm one reason I never liked 110 was, no full mechanical exposure control on cameras with faster lenses. And, the 110 cassettes were hard to reload. Whereas Minolta 16 cassettes are simple and easy to reload.

Look, we ain't doing it for the gigs.

I saw an article about how film is coming back and in the comments some guy was like 'MY CLIENTS CANT WAIT FER DAR FILM.' response was 'most of us shooting film have no clients.'

I have no clients when it comes to film. I'm doing it for myself and I enjoy it. 16mm is a pain at times and there are better ways to get an image but there are also better ways to drive around than using a manual and carburetor engine.

 

[eli griggs]

I actually approached a small company that cut, rolls, bends and just about anything they want, with a narrow focus on another thin walled product in brass, to see if I could get the owners to consider making brass cartridges, blackened, and offer them up at a opening price of about $10us for the first year or so, to analog forums that do love and want to shoot their Minolta 16 cameras.

I asked them to consider looking into the forums and get a general idea how much demand there is for this specialize product and take a look at the cameras as well.

I've heard nothing back, but I'll wait awhile before checking into if they have any interest at all.

After looking at the difficulty of getting 3-D printed polymers to print thinly enough for the original specs, Brass looks to me to be the ticket in a reusable cartridge that will last years with normal use.

Does anyone here also know such a manufacturing business?

Cheers

IMO.

 

[ciniframe]

Look, we ain't doing it for the gigs.
but there are also better ways to drive around than using a manual and carburetor engine.

I'm a 70 year old, baggy eyed, paunch gut, thinning hair, with jowls, and I tell my long suffering bride (of 32 years) that I shoot with old film cameras because they are 'chick magnets'. She just rolls her eyes.
There are duller ways to drive around for sure. The missus just bought herself a little Ford Ranger, it's for her, I sure can't fit in it. And guess what, it's a 2004, 5 speed with the carry on forever 2.3L engine. She loves it!

 

[Cholentpot]

I'm a 70 year old, baggy eyed, paunch gut, thinning hair, with jowls, and I tell my long suffering bride (of 32 years) that I shoot with old film cameras because they are 'chick magnets'. She just rolls her eyes.
There are duller ways to drive around for sure. The missus just bought herself a little Ford Ranger, it's for her, I sure can't fit in it. And guess what, it's a 2004, 5 speed with the carry on forever 2.3L engine. She loves it!

I need to start using this one.

I drive a 1990 Corolla.

 

[xya]

It is a shame that no one ever made a really full featured 16mm/110 type camera.

I ended up getting a Rollei E110 which is really nice, but the shutter is intermittent. Which means it usually doesn't fire. I hear a click and the blades seem to move but they don't open. I am assuming something inside is dirty. I was wondering if anyone has ever opened one up? I was thinking about sending it to DAG but I don't think it is worth it.

there is the rollei A110 which seems to be robust. I have one. or, if you want most features, get a pentax 110 super. I have one as well. they are no longer expensive these days if you watch out patiently.

for 16mm there are the edixa 16 and the mec 16 sb, both full featured except slow speeds.

 

[ciniframe]

there is the rollei A110 which seems to be robust. I have one. or, if you want most features, get a pentax 110 super. I have one as well. they are no longer expensive these days if you watch out patiently.

for 16mm there are the edixa 16 and the mec 16 sb, both full featured except slow speeds.

XYA, I hadn’t checked out your websites until today. Good heavens, what a fantastic resource! I learned a lot, thanks for posting all this material and your hard work.

Concerning the Minolta 16P (and Ps), there is one very minor correction. On these models the 25mm f3.5 lens is factory set at 5 meters. The 16 II, 22mm f2.8 is indeed set to 2.5 meters. This is probably why the 16P & Ps only had close up auxiliary lenses while the
16 II has both a distance auxiliary lens and two close up lenses.

 

[Cholentpot]

I just got a Pentax Auto 110 in the mail. I guess it's not a sub compact but it does focus to infinity.

 

[ciniframe]

I just got a Pentax Auto 110 in the mail. I guess it's not a sub compact but it does focus to infinity.

There are some interesting 110 cameras. My hang up with them has been the available film. There is no (easy) way to reload the cartridges, and, at $8 a roll....well, I can reload my Minolta cartridges with 16mm B&W for $1 per roll. Even slitting down 35mm color negative material is less than $2 per roll. With all the limitations of the Minolta cameras, I still cannot beat the film price. Of course the downside of reloading is dust and scratches unless you are very meticulous, and even if you are, handling film several more times presents its own problems.

 

[Cholentpot]

There are some interesting 110 cameras. My hang up with them has been the available film. There is no (easy) way to reload the cartridges, and, at $8 a roll....well, I can reload my Minolta cartridges with 16mm B&W for $1 per roll. Even slitting down 35mm color negative material is less than $2 per roll. With all the limitations of the Minolta cameras, I still cannot beat the film price. Of course the downside of reloading is dust and scratches unless you are very meticulous, and even if you are, handling film several more times presents its own problems.

I did reload with some 16mm double-X. It did take some work, but I'm pretty sure I can do away with the backing paper next time. As long as I keep track of the amount of shots taken I should be ok. That being said, it was a bit of a pain.

 

[eli griggs]

I can no recall if the Minolta has a window to let you see the frame number, but don't forget that any 110 film, must be shielded when you load only film.

Do no trust amber windows.

A tiny piece of black tin gaffer tapped to the window should last for years..com

IMO.

 

[Cholentpot]

I can no recall if the Minolta has a window to let you see the frame number, but don't forget that any 110 film, must be shielded when you load only film.

Do no trust amber windows.

A tiny piece of black tin gaffer tapped to the window should last for years..com

IMO.

On the subject of gaffer tape.

I've been using it for a while and discovered that both my rolls of the stuff are nowhere near light tight! Which brand of gaffer would you recommend? I've been using Shurtape because that's what the local place carried, and as tape it's great. But it's not light tight at all.

 

[eli griggs]

On the subject of gaffer tape.

I've been using it for a while and discovered that both my rolls of the stuff are nowhere near light tight! Which brand of gaffer would you recommend? I've been using Shurtape because that's what the local place carried, and as tape it's great. But it's not light tight at all.

Which is why I use black tin foil to cover window, It will form where needed, and still, with the gaffers tape lay flat enough to no bother the shooter.

If you do no have access to black tin, just use a thick piece of foil, by cutting it a bit oversized for the window, lay it onto the sticky side of a small piece of gaffers tape, then lay it, like a tin sandwich, onto a large enough piece of gaffer's tape, to place it tightly over any window (or crack or missing screw hole) and press fit over the window as you do so.

You could also use flat black paint, on the window (ugh) or on a piece of foil, if, when dried, it remains flexible enough no to crack or chip. A few coats of Golden's heavy body MATT carbon black should do it.

IMO.

 

[Cholentpot]

Which is why I use black tin foil to cover window, It will form where needed, and still, with the gaffers tape lay flat enough to no bother the shooter.

If you do no have access to black tin, just use a thick piece of foil, by cutting it a bit oversized for the window, lay it onto the sticky side of a small piece of gaffers tape, then lay it, like a tin sandwich, onto a large enough piece of gaffer's tape, to place it tightly over any window (or crack or missing screw hole) and press fit over the window as you do so.

You could also use flat black paint, on the window (ugh) or on a piece of foil, if, when dried, it remains flexible enough no to crack or chip. A few coats of Golden's heavy body MATT carbon black should do it.

IMO.

Or some electrical tape on the cassette itself...

 

[xya]

I just got a Pentax Auto 110 in the mail. I guess it's not a sub compact but it does focus to infinity.

I would say it's certainly a sub compact

 

[xya]

XYA, I hadn’t checked out your websites until today. Good heavens, what a fantastic resource! I learned a lot, thanks for posting all this material and your hard work.

Concerning the Minolta 16P (and Ps), there is one very minor correction. On these models the 25mm f3.5 lens is factory set at 5 meters. The 16 II, 22mm f2.8 is indeed set to 2.5 meters. This is probably why the 16P & Ps only had close up auxiliary lenses while the
16 II has both a distance auxiliary lens and two close up lenses.

I will correct that tomorrow. thanks for looking into it. and no, it's not hard work, it's much fun...

 

[Cholentpot]

I would say it's certainly a sub compact

Now I just need to find all the lenses...But yeah, next to 110 cameras its tiny. Not as small as my Minolta 16 types though.

 

[eli griggs]

Or some electrical tape on the cassette itself...

I don't care for electrical tape because of the residue glue that can be left behind due to hot conditions, and rubbed into the camera's surfaces by friction, over time.

While I do carry a good quality electrical tap in my kit, gaffer's tap is cleaner lifting, leaves no discernible glue to catch dirt or become 'gummy' and even migrate to other areas of your camera or in your bag.

It generally does no leave marks and peels off well.

IMO.

 

[Cholentpot]

I don't care for electrical tape because of the residue glue that can be left behind due to hot conditions, and rubbed into the camera's surfaces by friction, over time.

While I do carry a good quality electrical tap in my kit, gaffer's tap is cleaner lifting, leaves no discernible glue to catch dirt or become 'gummy' and even migrate to other areas of your camera or in your bag.

It generally does no leave marks and peels off well.

IMO.

Good point. I'm going to try the silver foil method.

 

[ProgramPlus]

It's a great day to be a Minolta 16 shooter. Just got an email from film photography store that they are taking preorders for 3D printed Minolta 16 cartridges. Film not included.
$9.99. Not bad.

 

[eli griggs]

Where?

 

[ProgramPlus]

Filmphotographystore.com

It was sent to me as an email, but if you search "Minolta 16" on their site, it comes up. Says shipping no later than June 1st. I might pick one up to see how it works. If it's a good product, that's a good deal. $10 is less than what I've seen these going for on Ebay for a decades old, used cartridge which might be brittle from age.
They also sell 16mm film - 25 feet for $35. I'll continue to cut my own. They claim you can get 20 exposures from about 17 inches of film. Even with a short leader, that's a good number of reloads making it pretty cheap to shoot with these cameras.

I bought a couple of cartridges off ebay but it's good to have other options.