Hello APUG from FILM Ferrania

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Nzoomed

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I'd guess at yes, but the timing must be just perfect.
Come in too soon, and they're competing against the remaining Kodak films.
Come in too late and even the die-hard users have switched to digital, however reluctantly.

Of course, no matter how late it is and no matter how many have switched to digital, there's always those who will switch back if 'the look' is good and the price is right.
I'd say the bigger danger is coming in too early, spending all the R&D money and producing too much film, and selling none of it because Vision3 is still around, that's the kind of situation that could kill the whole endeavour.
But that can be mitigated by a few test-rolls, getting some big& famous film-lovers like Tarantino to try it out, if it's good and they get on board for pre-orders that could justify a decent-sized run.
That's a lot more sales and marketing skills than technical though, we know Ferrania have the engineers but do they have the salesmen with the connections?

Your right, however Ferrania dont have any cine negative film products that we are aware of (unless their formulas in the archive contain future products that were scrapped by 3M)
So extensive R&D would be required, which could take years. Since ECN type films share alot of things in common with C41 films, this is not so bad for Ferrania, since they produced C41 film right up to 2010, so they do have the solaris formulas to work with to develop a new ECN2 product, but this still would require alot of work.
The good news is that Solaris was a very high quality C41 film with fine grain etc. I wouldnt expect that Ferrania will look at the cine negative film market until after they have C41 production well underway.

As you said kodak Vision is not going away any time soon, but anything is possible, the key for Ferrania would be to conduct market research to see if the majority of film makers would be happy to switch to a different film if Kodak pulled out. How many would have switched to digital after Fjui pulled out as an example?
And timing would have to be everything as you say, its no point waiting for Kodak to drop ECN before Ferrania starts R&D, but too early and its a waste of resources. If its too late, then labs will close down and processing will be near impossible, so the idea would be to release a replacement product around the time that you can feel that kodak is about to pull the plug.

We don't know if Ferrania has the equipment to perforate 65mm and 70mm film stock. Although the perforations look similar to the ones used for 35mm.

If i have researched correctly, the increased costs of 70mm prints were not exactly due to the increased amount of photo film area, but due to the fact that for 70mm there was no (cheaper) optical audio option, but only the magnetic audio. So the 70mm print stock needed additional manufacturing work so it would be coated with magnetic stripes, just as it is done when manufacturing audio tape. I've read on forums that this increased tenfold (10x) the cost of the print (source unknown -- please contribute), which limited 70mm prints manufacturing and distribution.

In the 1990s, DTS created digital audio (optical) sync tracks for the 70mm prints, so magnetic tracks were not needed anymore and thus print costs could decrease. There was a small resurgence of 70mm prints in the early 90s.

ARRI and Panavision both have modern (late 80s) 65mm cameras which they still rent, plus an array of lenses. The latest lenses released for the Arri digital 65mm camera use the same mount as the Arri 765 65mm film camera; that's good news.

"See new coming attractions presented in 70mm FERRRANIACOLOR..."

Black and white high-acutance 70mm prints should be something wonderful to watch...

Yes good point, i was thinking the same thing. I dont even know if Ferrania ever produced 70mm film or not, if so, there is a good chance they still have a 70mm perforator. They probably could get a scrapped one from kodak at such a time though.
Couldn't Dolby digital and SDDS be printed onto 70mm the same was as was done with 35mm?
 
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FILM Ferrania

FILM Ferrania

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Another Question Dave.
Regarding formats such as 126, who makes the plastic film cartridges for this?
Did Ferrania have their own injection moulding equipment to make them, or did they buy them off another supplier?
Since this is an obsolete format, i doubt even kodak still have the machinery to make them.
Same for Super8, from what im aware, everyone is buying the cartridges from kodak, is this the case for you, or do you have the means to make the cartridges?

This is one I had to ask about...

Ferrania never made its own cartridges. They were made by local plastics companies in the immediate area of the factory.
We were told that the necessary molds were in the buildings, but we were unable to locate them. And even if we did, we probably would have had to remake them anyway.
We did, however, locate (and now own) the blueprints for the molds, so it's just a quick step to a CAD file...

If we relaunch 126 film, we will of course need to find a plastics producer to make the cartridges, but we don't foresee a problem with this.

For Super8 cartridges, we assume that we may have to eventually make our own, but for now, there are a couple of options readily available to us, and so we will buy what we need. Our general philosophy is to work with - not against - the industry as it exists today. It's the path of least resistance for us, and perhaps a bit of help for our neighbors as well.

Thanks for the question! For as much as I already know, there are plenty of details that I have yet to learn...
 
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FILM Ferrania

FILM Ferrania

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We don't know if Ferrania has the equipment to perforate 65mm and 70mm film stock.

We do know! I'm 100% certain we own the machines to perforate 8mm to 65mm. And I'm 95% certain of 70mm.

"See new coming attractions presented in 70mm FERRRANIACOLOR..."

That sounds super awesome. I'd go see that movie!
 

Nzoomed

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This is one I had to ask about...

Ferrania never made its own cartridges. They were made by local plastics companies in the immediate area of the factory.
We were told that the necessary molds were in the buildings, but we were unable to locate them. And even if we did, we probably would have had to remake them anyway.
We did, however, locate (and now own) the blueprints for the molds, so it's just a quick step to a CAD file...

If we relaunch 126 film, we will of course need to find a plastics producer to make the cartridges, but we don't foresee a problem with this.

For Super8 cartridges, we assume that we may have to eventually make our own, but for now, there are a couple of options readily available to us, and so we will buy what we need. Our general philosophy is to work with - not against - the industry as it exists today. It's the path of least resistance for us, and perhaps a bit of help for our neighbors as well.

Thanks for the question! For as much as I already know, there are plenty of details that I have yet to learn...

Thanks for your response!
That is re-assuring news anyway. I hope i can have the opportunity to shoot 126 film at some point. I found an old instamatic i wouldnt mind playing around with at some point.

I agree that its good to help out other business' in the industry with supplying materials too.
I take it that you have the blueprints for 110 film cartridges also? Not that i think this is as big an issue as Lomogrophy have found a source for them.
 
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Your right, however Ferrania dont have any cine negative film products that we are aware of (unless their formulas in the archive contain future products that were scrapped by 3M)

The archives are extensive and only a fraction of developed products were commercially produced.

So extensive R&D would be required, which could take years.

Correct, of course. Maybe not so many years, we hope.

As you said kodak Vision is not going away any time soon, but anything is possible,

We hope it stays around a long long time because we think it's truly amazing.
 

flavio81

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We do know! I'm 100% certain we own the machines to perforate 8mm to 65mm. And I'm 95% certain of 70mm

Yeaaaaaaaah!!!!!!!! You made my day!!

... and let me add: Since the new Ferrania is sized for smaller-scale production, i'd guess there is a chance of big-name filmmakers asking for a "custom" production of cine film stock for a movie. So, if for example Woody Allen would like to film in b/w again, he could have a custom batch of P30 for camera and prints... after all we're talking about a lot of film.
 

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By the way, remember my post about the comparison between Portra 400 and the Lomography Cn100, supposedly Solaris 100?

I enlarged 6x4.5 sections to 8x10" and the results of CN100 were great. Good film, less saturated than Portra which IMHO makes it better for potraits, ironically. Some say production of CN100 switched to Kodak VR100 (?!) but it does not look like such a film, which would be more saturated, contrasty and grainy. The edge labels did not look like Kodak either.
 

Roger Cole

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+1

I learned non linear video editing nearly two decades ago (who remembers the Video Toaster?). It seemed then that 8mm was long dead and 16mm only used by documentary work where they really cared about quality. Everyone was either digital video or full on 35mm.

Video toaster! Yay Amiga! A computer so far ahead of its time, until they sold it to Commodore who sat on it without substantial improvements and milked that cow until the world passed it by. :sad:

Used in the earlier seasons for the effects on Babylon 5 too, still some of the best science fiction ever on TV.
 

Nzoomed

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I'd go see it too, and great news on the perforating ability.

Sorry for my above digression and thanks for sticking with the thread Dave!

Same here, i would line up to buy a ticket.
Anyway, Dave,
if your reading this, do you think it would be possible to contact a few film makers, possibly even in Hollywood and see who may have an interest to shoot part or all of a film on your new film stock?

This would be great exposure for film ferrania and get some awesome publicity.
Imagine seeing the Film Ferrania logo at the end of the credits?!

Some films have been shot on E6 and even cross processed such as the film Three Kings.
So we dont really need to wait for negative cine film to be available for hollywood to use it.
If someone was prepared to buy an order of 70mm for an IMAX film, well that would even be better!
 

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I know the situation seems to be that if there is demand, you guy can make a given format, which is great! :smile: One that I haven't seen mentioned that I would be really interested in is the Minox format. Would you be able to work with something that small, especially given the specialized Minox cassette?
 

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If Ferrania starts 126 film in E-6, another need will be for slide mounts with a square opening. I did a Google search and only saw Gepe mounts with a 24x26mm opening, but those were out of stock, and no mounts with a 24x24 or 26x26 opening. At the moment if I want a square slide I have to scan, crop, and then have Dwayne's "print" the file to a slide. It works, but not as well as being able to shoot square format to begin with and then put in a mount with a square (or nearly square) opening. If 126 slide film becomes available again, do you think anyone will start making the mounts for it too?
 

TheToadMen

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If Ferrania starts 126 film in E-6, another need will be for slide mounts with a square opening. I did a Google search and only saw Gepe mounts with a 24x26mm opening, but those were out of stock, and no mounts with a 24x24 or 26x26 opening. At the moment if I want a square slide I have to scan, crop, and then have Dwayne's "print" the file to a slide. It works, but not as well as being able to shoot square format to begin with and then put in a mount with a square (or nearly square) opening. If 126 slide film becomes available again, do you think anyone will start making the mounts for it too?

Slide mounts would only be needed by persons still using a projector for slides. I'm guessing most people scan nowadays?
 

AgX

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What would be the benefit of using slide film if not projecting?
 

Xmas

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What would be the benefit of using slide film if not projecting?

tut tut tut tut
if you mount slides you can project them or scan them as most scanners have carriers for mounted slides.
 

Dr Croubie

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What would be the benefit of using slide film if not projecting?

How about the colours?
I shot some identical scenes twice, with RVP50 and Ektar. The Velvia just had this much deeper blue to the sky that Ektar really couldn't get, although the greens were almost close. Ektar just didn't have that contrasty saturation of the Velvia.
I scanned them both, but the RVP had a kink in it and wouldn't lay flat so wet-scanning just gave me an airbubble I couldn't get rid of, so had to enter the Ektar in the competition that I took them for.
Unfortunately, that's the nature of the beast these days, I had to enter digital files. So I gave them 4800dpi 300 Megapickle 1GB Tiffs :smile: .

As for the mounts, they're either moulded plastic or cardboard, I really don't think it's that hard to change a few parameters and make square mounts in a few days. When the film comes back and people ask for them, someone will supply...
 

Xmas

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If Ferrania starts 126 film in E-6, another need will be for slide mounts with a square opening. I did a Google search and only saw Gepe mounts with a 24x26mm opening, but those were out of stock, and no mounts with a 24x24 or 26x26 opening. At the moment if I want a square slide I have to scan, crop, and then have Dwayne's "print" the file to a slide. It works, but not as well as being able to shoot square format to begin with and then put in a mount with a square (or nearly square) opening. If 126 slide film becomes available again, do you think anyone will start making the mounts for it too?

There was a 4x4 super slide as well but you can make slides yourself.

The big ifs are:

Can Ferranni make a profit with E6 35 mm cassettes.
Will Dwanyes still make a profit processing E6
 

Roger Cole

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Slide mounts would only be needed by persons still using a projector for slides. I'm guessing most people scan nowadays?

Most maybe but many of us do project. Projection is the ONLY reason I shoot slide film and the reason I stay with 35mm for E6 even though I have a couple of MF cameras and prefer it for virtually everything else.


Sent from my iPhone via Tapatalk using 100% recycled electrons. Because I care.
 

StoneNYC

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There was a 4x4 super slide as well but you can make slides yourself.

The big ifs are:

Can Ferranni make a profit with E6 35 mm cassettes.
Will Dwanyes still make a profit processing E6

There's always Praus :wink:
 

AgX

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The big ifs are:

Can Ferranai make a profit with E6 35 mm cassettes.
Will Dwanyes still make a profit processing E6

To what extent are Film Ferrania and Dwaynes related to each other?


In some european contries you can have your E-6 films developed for cheap via the local drugstore.
 

ME Super

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In the US, you can get your E-6 processed by mail, or allegedly by the local Wal-Mart (since they stopped returning 35mm color negatives to the customer, I don't use them for any film processing). In some cases, you can have it processed by the local camera store. I go the local camera store route, they send to their lab in St. Louis, and I have my slides back in a couple days.

Film Ferrania and Dwayne's are related in the sense that one will make E-6 slide film, and the other can and will process it. That is the only way they are related at the moment. Oh, and they might sell it too.
 

Nzoomed

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If Ferrania starts 126 film in E-6, another need will be for slide mounts with a square opening. I did a Google search and only saw Gepe mounts with a 24x26mm opening, but those were out of stock, and no mounts with a 24x24 or 26x26 opening. At the moment if I want a square slide I have to scan, crop, and then have Dwayne's "print" the file to a slide. It works, but not as well as being able to shoot square format to begin with and then put in a mount with a square (or nearly square) opening. If 126 slide film becomes available again, do you think anyone will start making the mounts for it too?

What cameras are capable of shooting E6 in 126 format i wonder?
Were there any 126 SLR cameras? I doubt an instamatic could make accurate exposures, since they have no light meter.
I have seen 126 slides though, so there must have been cameras capable of it. I think Ferrania will be selling more 126 film in C41 rather than E6
 

Ektagraphic

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What cameras are capable of shooting E6 in 126 format i wonder?
Were there any 126 SLR cameras? I doubt an instamatic could make accurate exposures, since they have no light meter.
I have seen 126 slides though, so there must have been cameras capable of it. I think Ferrania will be selling more 126 film in C41 rather than E6

I have family slides taken with very basic Instamatics and pocket cameras with no meter that turned out very well. My family at the time would have had no knowledge of photography at all and the slides are more than acceptable, so I guess it is a possibility.
 

Nzoomed

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I have family slides taken with very basic Instamatics and pocket cameras with no meter that turned out very well. My family at the time would have had no knowledge of photography at all and the slides are more than acceptable, so I guess it is a possibility.

Thats interesting to know. I guess alot of 110 kodachrome was put through such cameras too. I always thought you needed an accurate light meter for shooting reversal film, perhaps not?
 
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