Hello APUG from FILM Ferrania (PART 2)

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@jonasfi and BAC1967:

Thank you very much for your tips, i might try some of these - but as said i only get dust attration with PET, no problems with acetate.


From what I can tell, by the late 90s, only Agfa RSX100 & some Fuji transparency films were still on triacetate in sheet form - Kodak seem to have been entirely on polyester base for BW neg, colour neg & transparency by then. That said, the colour materials may have benefited from more up-to-date anti-static treatment/ coating than the BW materials at that time. It should also be pointed out that triacetate can also become statically charged, but because you're handling it (in 135 or 120 form) much less before exposure there's less chance of attracting dust. Low humidity, clothing choices & flooring/ building materials can all cause static to build up. Treating sheet film holders with anti-static cloths/ brushes etc on a regular basis is a very good idea in general. For that matter, 35mm/ 70mm cinema projectors - which largely run polyester base stock - have an in-line anti-static system before the gate.

It seems logical at first that sheet film gets more handling before exposure, but i don´t think that´s the cause for sheet having more dust attraction. On one hand films like 135 and 120 do get spooled through the camera and there is friction, especially because there are pressure plates in the cameras pressing the film to the gate. So a 135 having 36 exposures might get even more friction than a single sheet being put into a holder- and sheet film holders usually don´t have pressure plates. On the other hand (reasonable) 135- and 120-cameras are made of metal, pressure plate, film gate ect., so there is no plastic having contact to the film (ok, the core onto which the film is spooled often is made of plastic. But i doubt that there is much friction when this core is turned - at least no as much friction like when a dark slide from a sheet film holder is pulled out). But plastic is what creates static charge by friction and plastic can pass an existing amount of static charge - and that´s exactly what´s happening with sheet film holders. Sheet film holders usually are made of plastic, they do accumulate static charge and they create static charge when the dark slide is pulled out and pushed in or when the holder is transported in a camera-bag - and all this static charge is passed onto the sheet film because the rails holding the sheet also are made of plastic.
Which is what my test seems to confirm. Both sheets, acetate and PE, got the same amount of handling when i loaded them into my holder, but the PE-sheet attracted dust like hell, while the acetate-sheet didn´t. The static charge on the holder couldn´t affect the acetate sheet - and i charged the holder intentionally.
I actually was thinking of attaching a kind of "ground wire" to each holder, so the static charge could be released... but how often do you have a ground to attach the wire to when you´re out shooting... i mean you had to release the static charge before exposure because during transport the holders do get some friction in the camera-bag... its cursed.

Maybe Ferrania could get this antistatic coating cmacd123 is reffering to onto their sheet films.
 

Europan

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and current 3383/2383 movie print film (Poly) has a really special lubrication/antistatic back coating that remains on teh film after processing. (no rem-jet on 3383) the back of the film looks iridescent.
Property of Agfa-Gevaert who employs it since many years with microfilms, seems to have found its way to Rochester.
 
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...during transport the holders do get some friction in the camera-bag...
My large format sheet film use is entirely black and white on polyester bases. I've not had a dust issue, even in the desert southwest, since adopting the following protocol:
 
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@Sal Santamaura:

Thank you for the description and links; i initially started this "base-conversation" to make Dave Bias aware of the problems PET-base can produce and that most of the precautions like dust-free working place, air cleaners, antistatic brushes, antistatic pistols, antistatic bags etc. could be avoided with acetate base - and therefore giving the LF-fotographer much less trouble. But as Dave said there isn´t any manufacturer around who produces acetate-base with the needed thickness for sheet film.
I´m aware of the methods to aviod or reduce dust on PET-film, but that´s too much of a hassle for me. I won´t do sheet film unless there´s some with acetate-base or having a reasonable antistatic coating.
 

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The last Ektachrome produced in Super 8, E100D, was on cellulose acetate. I hope the new stuff is as well, I like to make cement splices on movie film, polyester requires tape splices.
you can get an ultrasonic splicer and this will splice any film together by melting it :smile:
 

cmacd123

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you can get an ultrasonic splicer and this will splice any film together by melting it :smile:
but those are rare on the used market and cost many times more than a good cement splicer. they may not be as accurate. (because of the melting)
 

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I think they only have five people working on the project, and I don't know if any are full time. They also don't have any money. Basically, they have a dream and some old equipment, so expecting anything in the near term is wishful thinking. Perhaps something will ultimately come of it, but it will certainly take time.
 
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jonasfj

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http://www.savonanews.it/2017/02/15...nto-di-film-ferrania-un-piccolo-miracolo.html

Google translate on part of the last paragraph from the article.

In addition to research activities in the production of its products, FILM Ferrania has designed for the Gran Sasso laboratory a new generation of nuclear film on the type of the one already used in the Opera project, able to identify neutrinos and to be used for volcanology applications.

WHAT?????????????????
 

kb3lms

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If this nuclear film is something they can sell somebody and get money coming in the door, then good for them. More film through the machine and more experience making films.

Where was 2018 taken off the table for color film? I believe it will be some time before we see it, but I didn't see that 2018 was ruled out.
 

faberryman

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Where was 2018 taken off the table for color film? I believe it will be some time before we see it, but I didn't see that 2018 was ruled out.
If they can't make and deliver P30 black and white film in quantity, it is unlikely they will be able to do so with color film, which is an order of magnitude more difficult. There real problem is they don't have any money. They spent all the money they raised a couple of years ago buying, moving, and storing the equipment. They could do another Kickstarter, but they have lost credibility. I also suspect they are waiting to see how the market for Ektachrome develops before making a commitment. Seems prudent.
 
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Berri

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If they can't make and deliver P30 black and white film in quantity, it is unlikely they will be able to do so with color film, which is an order of magnitude more difficult. There real problem is they don't have any money. They spent all the money they raised a couple of years ago buying, moving, and storing the equipment. They could do another Kickstarter, but they have lost credibility. I also suspect they are waiting to see how the market for Ektachrome develops before making a commitment. Seems prudent.
They could make some sort of JV with some other european manufacturer and share risks and profits. Inoviscoat has the technology ready to coat CN film...
 

jonasfj

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Kodak Alaris says they are presently running Ektachrome coating tests to optimize curve shape and expect it to be generally available in Q1 2018...
 

alanrockwood

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Any bets on when color film will be produced? 1st quarter of next year? 2nd? 3rd? 4th?
Wild guess: At least a year from now, maybe two.

I once had a coworker who was involved in project planning. His rule of thumb was to make your best time projection, and then multiply by Pi, and the actual time for the project usually works out pretty close to the revised estimate.
 

aleckurgan

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Basically, they have a dream and some old equipment, so expecting anything in the near term is wishful thinking. Perhaps something will ultimately come of it, but it will certainly take time.
According to Photo Engineer they have state of the art equipment (post #2664 in this thread).
 

Wallendo

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My interpretation of Ferrania's posts is that the limiting factor in P30 production is actually problems with processing of the already manufactured film, not the actual manufacturing of the film. These are issues that need to be addressed before any color production can begin. Once these issues are addressed, color production should proceed fairly rapidly.
Kodak has made test runs and apparently is optimizing their process prior to public release. I suspect Ferrania will release an alpha release which may become a lomography favorite.
I made a small investment with the Kickstarter campaign hoping to secure E-6 film in the future at a time when Kodak had abandoned the market and rumors were raging that Fuji would soon follow. I still see a future need for an E-6 film that can be manufactured in relatively small quantities. I hope that B&W film can keep FilmFerrania going until the market for small-batch E-6 develops.
 
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