Hello APUG from FILM Ferrania (PART 2)

[macfred]

Free Range Sheep film! ! A marketing COUP!

I've got Sheep film from Kodak ...
So the lanolin causes the imprints in the skies ?

sheepness by Andreas, on Flickr

 

[Sal Santamaura]

...im in California...

Not Fairfield County? Time to update your profile.

 

[mshchem]

I've got Sheep film from Kodak ...
So the lanolin causes the imprints in the skies ?

sheepness by Andreas, on Flickr

I haven't been burned (YET) by the ink transfer. Great sheep. Kodak better make damn sure they have the backing paper thing figured out.

 

[iandvaag]

You´re right, Kodak has estar-base, but i think only on color sheets. B&W, like T-Max for example, is on PE (polyester).

I beieve ESTAR is Kodak's name for their polyester film base (polyESTAR).

 

[BAC1967]

The last Ektachrome produced in Super 8, E100D, was on cellulose acetate. I hope the new stuff is as well, I like to make cement splices on movie film, polyester requires tape splices.

 

[Photo Engineer]

We are apparently up sheep creek wrt the film industry.

PE

 

[cmacd123]

The last Ektachrome produced in Super 8, E100D, was on cellulose acetate. I hope the new stuff is as well, I like to make cement splices on movie film, polyester requires tape splices.

it is a tradition for Camera Movie film to be on acetate Base. Although Poly is sometimes made on special order. (Not sure if Acetate would stand up to an IMAX camera, 15 perfs at 24 Frame a second.)

I am guessing that the aim point is the last Specs for 7285. https://www.super8.nl/file/7285.pdf which shows an acetate base.

 

[jonasfj]

I bet the film base for Tri-X is different from other Kodak B/W films because it curls like crazy...

 

[darkroommike]

I bet the film base for Tri-X is different from other Kodak B/W films because it curls like crazy...

You might lose that bet but how would you get the info since it's proprietary? I haven't shot any of the "new and improved" Tri-X in quite a while but I don't remember it curling. Many times it's not the film base but the gelatin coat on the back of the film, the "anti-curl" layer.

 

[cmacd123]

I bet the film base for Tri-X is different from other Kodak B/W films because it curls like crazy...

Are you thinking of the 35mm or the 120? both seem straight to me. but the 120 has a back coat which may dry differently than the 35mm

 

[Harry Callahan]

I beieve ESTAR is Kodak's name for their polyester film base (polyESTAR).

A few years ago i searched the internet for sheet film and dust problems. On one thread someone said that he did get dust problems with B&W sheets, but not with color-sheets. The website is down now, but when i did my search i found the color-sheets to have acetate-base i think. Or estar doesn´t create and pass static charge... at least someone reported that there´s no dust-problem with color and color had a different base than B&W.

 

[Sal Santamaura]

I bet the film base for Tri-X is different from other Kodak B/W films because it curls like crazy...

Are you thinking of the 35mm or the 120?...

If 120, 400TX is indeed thinner than TMX and TMY-2. The former is coated on 3.6-mil acetate, while the latter are on 4.7-mil acetate. Thickness of both 120 TMAX films is why they were never available as 220 versions, even when 220 was common.

An historical tidbit is that, when first introduced, 120 TMAX films were even thicker, having been coated on 5-mil acetate. However, when customers experienced camera jams (especially Mamiya users), Kodak reduced the base thickness by 0.3 mil.

 

[FILM Ferrania]

Anyway i´m here to "talk business" and that´s my point:
Consider to put sheet film on ACETATE base, not PET (plastic, synthetic material; in movie film synthetic base is called PET).

Hi Harry,

I very much appreciate this impassioned response and I understand the points you make about base material for large format films.
The sad but simple fact is that until we can cast our own base material, we must use products already in the market. With respect to triacetate, we are unaware of any supplier (that we can access) who casts triacetate in the necessary thickness for large format materials.
Obviously, once we finally achieve our fully self-contained status (which remains years away), all of our films will utilize our own triacetate base. But until then we have no other choice.

 

[FILM Ferrania]

Seriously I also have some doubts if this can go right at least.
But if you absolute not willig to give up
with your plan you obviously will be successessful.
Because the market is prepared to want new films to a period a big manufacturer in asia isn't willing to care about film in any way .
with compliments

We are absolutely not willing to give up. All of us have made tremendous personal sacrifices to get where we are today.

We've had plenty of chances to grab what is left of our sanity and shut the doors - but we cannot.

As we have said before, FILM Ferrania is THE LAST opportunity on Earth to create a self-contained, flexible, adaptable manufacturing base. There is simply no other option, unless Kodak or Fuji were to decide to sell some machines - or another brand were to have the financial means to commission entirely new machinery.

This unique opportunity is far too great to ignore and we will keep working, or die trying.

 

[FILM Ferrania]

I just about gave up on sheet film because of dust. Nothing I do - wipe down the darkroom, run a HEPA grade aircleaner for an hour, clean holders and slides with anti-static brush, tried blowing compressed air over the film just before inserting the slide (made no difference either way) - a dust free exposure is just about IMPOSSIBLE. And I've got better things to do than try to spot a negative to print white (which gives one ginormous white spot on your print if you aren't VERY careful) then spot it back, when my 6x7 negs exposures are dust free. Pity, as I like working with the view camera. I do have a 6x7 back but that just doesn't seem the same. If my RZ67 had movements...

Dust is obviously a huge irritation for all film users who scan their own frames, regardless of format. I wish I could have back the hours I've spent removing dust in Photoshop, and even though I haven't done a lot of wet printing, when I do, it's an even bigger hassle.

I've been thinking about this issue quite a bit over the past year or so. I have some ideas that I really don't yet know how to pursue. Once FILM Ferrania is truly on its feet, my job will be to take these ideas and run with them... If anyone has any ideas on the dust issue specifically, please feel free to contact me directly.

 

[trendland]

We are absolutely not willing to give up. All of us have made tremendous personal sacrifices to get where we are today.

We've had plenty of chances to grab what is left of our sanity and shut the doors - but we cannot.

As we have said before, FILM Ferrania is THE LAST opportunity on Earth to create a self-contained, flexible, adaptable manufacturing base. There is simply no other option, unless Kodak or Fuji were to decide to sell some machines - or another brand were to have the financial means to commission entirely new machinery.

This unique opportunity is far too great to ignore and we will keep working, or die trying.

It is a good / right philosophy you have.
Well I am not so very familiar with Italian film history.
But I just remember Francis Ford Coppola filming his version of "Heard of Darkness" the big studios cut all additional money he wanted because he was terrible far away from scedule.
As a result he gave his complete private money (more than one million) he got from godfather 1 + 2 away.As it wasn't enough he got money from the bank - but his house was to the bank as insurance.
And he did that well - he got all his money back plus several millions from
Appocalypse Now.
Hope you have same luck !

with regards

 

[Harry Callahan]

Hi Harry,

I very much appreciate this impassioned response and I understand the points you make about base material for large format films.
The sad but simple fact is that until we can cast our own base material, we must use products already in the market. With respect to triacetate, we are unaware of any supplier (that we can access) who casts triacetate in the necessary thickness for large format materials.
Obviously, once we finally achieve our fully self-contained status (which remains years away), all of our films will utilize our own triacetate base. But until then we have no other choice.

Hi Dave,

thank you very much for your answer. I allready assumed that it won´t be that easy, but as long as you consider actetate as base for sheet film when you´re able to do so - that´s all i wanted.

All the best to you, your crew and films made by Ferrania,

Harry

 

[jimjm]

We are absolutely not willing to give up. All of us have made tremendous personal sacrifices to get where we are today.

We've had plenty of chances to grab what is left of our sanity and shut the doors - but we cannot.

As we have said before, FILM Ferrania is THE LAST opportunity on Earth to create a self-contained, flexible, adaptable manufacturing base. There is simply no other option, unless Kodak or Fuji were to decide to sell some machines - or another brand were to have the financial means to commission entirely new machinery.

This unique opportunity is far too great to ignore and we will keep working, or die trying.

Hey Dave,

After the results I got from my first 5 rolls of P30, I'm dying to get my hands on more. The day I can get it in 120 can't get here quick enough, either.

Best of luck to you and the team and thanks for all the updates and info.

Cheers!

 

[Diapositivo]

We are absolutely not willing to give up. All of us have made tremendous personal sacrifices to get where we are today.

We've had plenty of chances to grab what is left of our sanity and shut the doors - but we cannot.

As we have said before, FILM Ferrania is THE LAST opportunity on Earth to create a self-contained, flexible, adaptable manufacturing base. There is simply no other option, unless Kodak or Fuji were to decide to sell some machines - or another brand were to have the financial means to commission entirely new machinery.

This unique opportunity is far too great to ignore and we will keep working, or die trying.

Gee, I like you, men. That's what I want to read!

 

[Lachlan Young]

A few years ago i searched the internet for sheet film and dust problems. On one thread someone said that he did get dust problems with B&W sheets, but not with color-sheets. The website is down now, but when i did my search i found the color-sheets to have acetate-base i think. Or estar doesn´t create and pass static charge... at least someone reported that there´s no dust-problem with color and color had a different base than B&W.

All current Kodak & Fuji colour sheet films are on Estar/ polyester base & have been for at least a decade. Used to be a more random mix - some films on triacetate & some not, which caused a fair bit of annoyance amongst those who used registered masking techniques (triacetate is not dimensionally stable).

 

[Harry Callahan]

All current Kodak & Fuji colour sheet films are on Estar/ polyester base & have been for at least a decade. Used to be a more random mix - some films on triacetate & some not, which caused a fair bit of annoyance amongst those who used registered masking techniques (triacetate is not dimensionally stable).

Unfortunately i didn´t save everything when i did my search some years ago. But i´m very sure that the color sheet film i checked back then did have acetate base. I think it was color transparency sheet film.
But i did save the website which is down now; it contains posts from 1999, here´s a screenshot:

That´s where two users talk about having dust with B&W, but not color sheet film.
During my search back then it made `click`and i started to look about the base material of the film types. Then i did my test with my plastic holders comparing acetate vs. PET and came to the conclusion that PET is responsible for the dust-problems.

 

[jonasfj]

Hi Dave,

thank you very much for your answer. I allready assumed that it won´t be that easy, but as long as you consider actetate as base for sheet film when you´re able to do so - that´s all i wanted.

All the best to you, your crew and films made by Ferrania,

Harry

Harry,

There are a bunch of different products out there to help you. Anti-static brushes, cloths and liquid film cleaners. I use an anti-static cloth. Works like a charm.

Cheers,

Jonas

 

[BAC1967]

Harry,

There are a bunch of different products out there to help you. Anti-static brushes, cloths and liquid film cleaners. I use an anti-static cloth. Works like a charm.

Cheers,

Jonas

I use the Ilford Antistaticum Anti-Static Cloth and it works great. I've been using the same cloth for a few years now with great results. I wipe down film holders with it and wipe the negatives before scanning or printing. I should probably order a new one soon.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/co...O_A8qEAQYBCABEgLEYPD_BwE&is=REG&m=Y&sku=24592

 

[Lachlan Young]

During my search back then it made `click`and i started to look about the base material of the film types. Then i did my test with my plastic holders comparing acetate vs. PET and came to the conclusion that PET is responsible for the dust-problems.

From what I can tell, by the late 90s, only Agfa RSX100 & some Fuji transparency films were still on triacetate in sheet form - Kodak seem to have been entirely on polyester base for BW neg, colour neg & transparency by then. That said, the colour materials may have benefited from more up-to-date anti-static treatment/ coating than the BW materials at that time. It should also be pointed out that triacetate can also become statically charged, but because you're handling it (in 135 or 120 form) much less before exposure there's less chance of attracting dust. Low humidity, clothing choices & flooring/ building materials can all cause static to build up. Treating sheet film holders with anti-static cloths/ brushes etc on a regular basis is a very good idea in general. For that matter, 35mm/ 70mm cinema projectors - which largely run polyester base stock - have an in-line anti-static system before the gate.

 

[cmacd123]

. For that matter, 35mm/ 70mm cinema projectors - which largely run polyester base stock - have an in-line anti-static system before the gate.

and current 3383/2383 movie print film (Poly) has a really special lubrication/antistatic back coating that remains on teh film after processing. (no rem-jet on 3383) the back of the film looks iridescent.