Hello APUG from FILM Ferrania (PART 2)

[faberryman]

is it this one?
http://www.savonanews.it/2017/02/15...nto-di-film-ferrania-un-piccolo-miracolo.html

Yes, it was quoted above, and is the source of the investment guesses in this thread. The translation isn't clear. Perhaps the original reporting isn't clear either. I find it difficult to believe that Film Ferrania has raised and invested 1.8 million euros.

 

[Berri]

The article says that it is a good ex

Yes, it was quoted above, and is the source of the investment guesses in this thread.

OK.
It says thet film ferrania is a good example of collaboration between public (the regional state) and private. The math doesn't make much sense, but it sounds like something around 1.8milon EUR has been invested in the area in which LRF is. A public investment of 400.000EUR directly to Film ferrania plus 300.000USD raised through crowd funding.

 

[faberryman]

Do you know whether the "public investment" is a grant or a loan?

 

[Berri]

Do you know whether the "public investment" is a grant or a loan?

It is an investment grant.

 

[Harry Callahan]

... based on my personal opinion on a fact.

What now? First you said:"Ferrania got money to make colour reversal film ant this is a fact" - now you say "it´s my personal opinion on a fact".
Is it a fact now that Ferrania got the money for color film or is it your opinion that Ferrania got they money for color film - and that´s a fact then? (Because Ferrania didn´t got the money to make color film - and that´s a "real" fact)
"Sorry you find my opinion annoyng."
So you don´t mean "fact" when you say "fact", you mean "my opinion" by saying "fact" - right? Or wrong?

You´re pretty creative on "facts" or "opinions" or both - and repeating ones opinion ("facts"?) over and over again can be quite annoying.

but it sounds like something around 1.8milon EUR has been invested in the area in which LRF is

They built a road, remember? And as roads can be pretty expensive it´s possible that the LRF didn´t got a cent of that money for their factory/film production.

 

[jonasfj]

Well Berri, you´re one of the best. You didn´t invest money but you complain for a pretty long time now and you´re just lying. Ferrania never took the money for color-film, but TO SAVE THE MACHINES. Once and for all. I know there´s a Donald Trump in power right now and since George W. Bush it´s "cool" to ignore facts, but come on man at least try to be fair. If you´re having a bad feeling then do it like Han Solo and say: "I´m having a bad feeling about this" - but please don´t lie. And, by the way, EVERONE here has noticed that you´re having a bad feeling about this - yes we all know that for sure now.
...

I´m not angry at you, i´m sorry for you as you must have serious trouble in your life when all you can do here is paint things black and turn around facts - therefore i wish all the best for you and get well soon, honest man. God bless you. I really mean it, this is not an insult, ok?

Come back to the "honest side" of the force!

Are you serious? Of course they took the money to make film. Specifically they took the money to:

1. Purchase and removal of Trixie, Walter and Big Boy
2. Expenses for packing and shipping the rewards

The rewards were promised to be produced in 2015 and shipped in April the same year.

Read for yourself:

Dead Link Removed

So you are the one that ignore facts and your post was clearly a rambling on the "dishonest side".

If someone takes in more than 1 million euro and $300,000 from a Kickstarter project, they have a responsibility to be transparent with information.

If it now turns out to be true that they are busy making some new film for a research laboratory instead of working to make the color slide film, I think many backers will be quite upset and rightfully so.

We'll see if David Bias will return to comment on this?

 

[tih]

Really? I take it, then, you have never perused a copy of The New York Times, The Washington Post, or Canada's Globe and Mail. And, you have most certainly have never read an issue of The Economist. First-rate journalism, and first-rate writing in all.

Absolutely. I currently have (on-line) subscriptions to The New York Times and The Guardian, and I used to subscribe to The Economist. Quality publications, as you say. Journalism in general, though, seems to be in a sorry state of decay.

 

[Berri]

What now? First you said:"Ferrania got money to make colour reversal film ant this is a fact" - now you say "it´s my personal opinion on a fact".
Is it a fact now that Ferrania got the money for color film or is it your opinion that Ferrania got they money for color film - and that´s a fact then? (Because Ferrania didn´t got the money to make color film - and that´s a "real" fact)
"Sorry you find my opinion annoyng."
So you don´t mean "fact" when you say "fact", you mean "my opinion" by saying "fact" - right? Or wrong?

You´re pretty creative on "facts" or "opinions" or both - and repeating ones opinion ("facts"?) over and over again can be quite annoying.

It is a fact that people backed Ferrania in the hope they would succede and make colour reversal film. Don't tell me you payd some random company just to move a piece of machinery from a building to another.
My opinion is that they won't make (in the next few years) any colour reversal film.
clearer now?

 

[Berri]

If it now turns out to be true that they are busy making some new film for a research laboratory instead of working to make the color slide film, I think many backers will be quite upset and rightfully so.

I think you are right. Although the specialty film might be more important. If there is a HUGE investment by the local regional state, you have to expect that they might have to work for nationally relevant projects, not just making colour film for us few. In the article is also made quite clear that the whole area is OWNED by the investors (aka the state) the article make it sound like the private company FERRANIA is working whithin a public technological estate and their work is directly financed by the regional state.

 

[Berri]

They built a road, remember? And as roads can be pretty expensive it´s possible that the LRF didn´t got a cent of that money for their factory/film production.

The investment of 1.8 milions is not for building roads. It is to recover the whole technological estate of Val Bormida.

May I ask you how would you feel if it turns up that no colour film will ever be made by this company? If you could set back the clock, would you still pay them to restore "trixi" ,"Caio" and "Sempronio"?
Since the whole project started, there always was a good reason not to deliver what promised. First the bad weather that "shut the window", then they realize there was no road...come on mate, this is not the behaviour professionals should lead.
People backed this project because they made it sound that whithin a few years they would have made colour reversal film available again, they even published a schotch chrome data sheet to say the type of film we could expect. If they wouldn't have said that nobody would have backed them. After many years all you are left with is a poor quality (utterly redundant) expansive low ISO BW film that they never talked about to start with. I dfon't call this attitude professional.

 

[georg16nik]

Back in 2014, FILM Ferrania's kickaster slogan promised “100 More Years of Analog Film” and “We already have everything we need to make film!”.

Europe is not Asia, Africa or South America.
2 or 5 million Euros won't take you very far even in very basic mfg business... and color reversal silver-gelatin ops are towards the complex side.

It's impressive FILM Ferrania are still showing signs of activity.

 

[Berri]

It's impressive FILM Ferrania are still showing signs of activity.

in Italy you would be amazed to see how many companies show signs of activity...Alitalia for example, I lost track how many time it has been saved by the state,FIAT, ILVA, and even banks, for god's sake!..I could go on forever.

 

[FILM Ferrania]

...and a couple million eu of investment (counting the kickstarter founding):
http://www.savonanews.it/2017/02/15...nto-di-film-ferrania-un-piccolo-miracolo.html

I'm pretty sure we noted in the past that the €2M the government invested was not invested in FILM Ferrania - it was invested into the government-owned property, the LRF building, as well as infrastructural changes in the area around the LRF.

This pre-planned expenditure, which was in the works well before FILM Ferrania was formed, was the primary reason our overall project was feasible. But it was also the reason for our long delay from July 2015 to July 2016, as documented in various posts on our website.

So it was both 100% essential to our plans and, at the same time, a huge thorn in our side. And not a single euro of their investment into the LRF went into our bank account.

The funding for FILM Ferrania has come from the founders, the Kickstarter campaign and one small outside investor. Our pre-sale was pretty much a wash, but showed our bank that people do, in fact, want film from us and has helped to increase the overall valuation of the company.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Your pre-sale was a wash? Was that for P30? I was under the impression that it went well...and you'll continue producing P30 to generate income....

 

[FILM Ferrania]

They could make some sort of JV with some other european manufacturer and share risks and profits. Inoviscoat has the technology ready to coat CN film...

You might be surprised to learn that every other film manufacturer on Earth visited Ferrania before our founders ever set foot on the campus. A few did "a little shopping" as Nicola puts it - but no one wanted to take on the overall project.

We have since re-approached every manufacturer in one way or another. Some we have only exchanged emails and others have been back to the campus to talk.

So far, no one wishes to share any risks or potential profits - so we proceed forward as best we can, which means very slowly and very carefully.

 

[FILM Ferrania]

Your pre-sale was a wash? Was that for P30? I was under the impression that it went well...and you'll continue producing P30 to generate income....

The sale went extremely well by nearly every measure - selling four months worth of production in just 5 days. But most of the film was sold to Backers at cost, and in the end, our actual logistical expenses were very slightly higher than the flat-rates we charged.

But the fact is that a financial wash is totally ok at this early stage. We didn't LOSE money and we proved, in some small way, that demand exists.

I was just making the point that the pre-sale didn't do anything to fund expansions or add to the coffers.

 

[FILM Ferrania]

It seems 1.5m + 300k from kickstarter? And then an investment of 1.8 for the renovation of the whole technology park. The article does not make it clear if the 300k is included in the 1.5m or not, but it says "complessivo" (overall), and by the (very bad) phrasing it could include or not the next sentence (the article is a good example of bad Italian).

As noted before, the €1.5M (seems they didn't spend the full €2M as planned) was not an investment in FILM Ferrania.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I see. Thank you, I hope you produce more, as I would like to try it.

 

[Prof_Pixel]

Dave, as I'm sure you know: 'Illegitimi non carborundum'

 

[mudfly9]

Thanks for clearing things up, Dave. I appreciate that you don't want to post on here so often until you've got anything definite to say but some people get a little carried away with speculation when you don't! That said, people get a little carried away with speculation when you do post...

I really like the results I've gotten with P30, it definitely offers something different from the other b&w films out there.

 

[faberryman]

The sale went extremely well by nearly every measure - selling four months worth of production in just 5 days. But most of the film was sold to Backers at cost, and in the end, our actual logistical expenses were very slightly higher than the flat-rates we charged.

But the fact is that a financial wash is totally ok at this early stage. We didn't LOSE money and we proved, in some small way, that demand exists.

I was just making the point that the pre-sale didn't do anything to fund expansions or add to the coffers.

Can you share with us the actual number of rolls of P30 delivered to customers?

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Dave, as I'm sure you know: 'Illegitimi non carborundum'

That's how I feel about some of my carbon prints...

 

[Meyer Trioplan]

...some people get a little carried away with speculation when you don't!.

Wondering when the stories will begin insisting that International politicians are running a human trafficking ring in a back room in the coating area.

 

[pbromaghin]

Your pre-sale was a wash? Was that for P30? I was under the impression that it went well...and you'll continue producing P30 to generate income....

I would consider a "wash" on that kind of business activity as a HUGE success. The knowledge they gained about the market and their customers while shaking out their web marketplace, packaging and shipping is of immense value. To do all that without blowing a big wad of scarce cash is very rare. It is a key critical point in business development when the whole thing could have come crashing down.

 

[faberryman]

Wondering when the stories will begin insisting that International politicians are running a human trafficking ring in a back room in the coating area.

Well, at least we would know something is happening in the coating area