Hello APUG from FILM Ferrania (PART 2)

[Berri]

it

Its really unclear what that even means.

It would be really nice if we could see them restart production again, as it was a really good film.

I have no idea on the scale of their coater, but they were only the third company that was making colour film.
Now we are down to two, but soon we will see Ferrania again

It means that agfa gevaert doesn't produce colour film anymore, what's unclear?

 

[flavio81]

I read that Rollei Chrome 320 is replacing CR 200. No word on who manufactures it.


http://www.firstcall-photographic.co.uk/blog

Yes, google suggests this was announced by Rollei (Maco?) at Photokina.

If this is freshly manufactured and in 120 size, and very unlike Aviphot 200, i will be very happy.

I wonder if this will be coated by Inoviscoat

 

[flavio81]

If Agfa have finished films for good, their staff and machinery may very well be valuable to Ferrania (if they can speak Italian) lol

What I understood is that Inoviscoat acquired a lot of equipment that belonged to Agfa. And that some agfa engineers moved to Inoviscoat. Inoviscoat might be the dark horse of film in the new era; i understood they coated/coat the Impossible film. Probably they are totally ready and able to coat an E6 film.

Ferrania should hurry up... if the Rollei CR320 is truly a brand new film it will then have nice colors (unlike CR200).

As for Ferrania, i don't think they lack any equipment, perhaps it's the opposite -- they have tons of equipment in storage preserved for future use.

 

[Prest_400]

I read that Rollei Chrome 320 is replacing CR 200. No word on who manufactures it.

A search doesn't yield much, if at all. In the german APHOG forum there was a little discussion and it may be somekind of old stock film given that really 320 E6 hasn't been around for? (FPP Retrochrome 320 anyone?) supposedly being mentioned in the Photokina stand of Maco. Something should be known by now.
http://aphog.de/forum/index.php/Thread/40220-Rollei-CR320-Diafilm-ab-Ende-des-Jahres/

Agfa's assets must have been "spread out" for a long time. Ilford acquired some equipment (120 spooler?), ADOX did too. Inoviscoat is a different company that uses ex-Agfa equipment but they don't make film themselves nor seem to have an interest.

 

[FILM Ferrania]

Ferrania should hurry up... if the Rollei CR320 is truly a brand new film it will then have nice colors (unlike CR200).

Hurrying costs money that we quite simply do not have - and introduces the possibility for errors when you consider the size of our team.

For a clear and recent example, our team "hurried" to restore the both the 1917 slitter and "Baby" slitter. They were meticulous in the restoration and examined the cut rolls of base material quite carefully - but not using stringent (and time-consuming) QA protocols that would be in place were our team a bit larger.

Thus, the tiny flaws in the rubberized rollers became amplified during coating and were only discovered when we sent out sample rolls from the pre-production run.

We are certainly feeling urgency to ramp up to make enough P30 to meet demand that is already on the table - and of course to remain on schedule for color reversal in June/July.

But the simply truth is that we are not at all worried about competition. We welcome it wholeheartedly because, as I've said before, "a rising tide raises all boats" - and honestly, this is all we need to succeed.

 

[Nzoomed]

What I understood is that Inoviscoat acquired a lot of equipment that belonged to Agfa. And that some agfa engineers moved to Inoviscoat. Inoviscoat might be the dark horse of film in the new era; i understood they coated/coat the Impossible film. Probably they are totally ready and able to coat an E6 film.

Ferrania should hurry up... if the Rollei CR320 is truly a brand new film it will then have nice colors (unlike CR200).

As for Ferrania, i don't think they lack any equipment, perhaps it's the opposite -- they have tons of equipment in storage preserved for future use.

Inoviscoat bought the equipment from Agfa in Germany.

Im referring to Agfa in Belgium that was still coating CR200 and CN200 films up to recently.
They were operating independently of Inoviscoat at the time.

They probably still have the coater, I think they are still coating B&W from memory.
Anyway, CR320 looks interesting.
There are obviously other people capable of producing colour emulsions, even providing Inoviscoat with an emulsion for a colour film is not that simple. (providing that they are making the stufff)

There was nothing wrong with the Aviphot stock. Rollei had a bad batch of poorly stored film that went yellow.

My rolls from Wittner have no signs of yellow whatsoever, i have shots to prove it.
I love its nice retro colours, nothing terrible about it, very close to Kodachrome.

 

[Lachlan Young]

Im referring to Agfa in Belgium that was still coating CR200 and CN200 films up to recently.
They were operating independently of Inoviscoat at the time.

I recall that they were actually made on the Leverkusen machine in large quantity at the end of Agfaphoto's existence (like Scala) and sold from cold stored master rolls until they became too foggy etc - though I may be wrong on some specifics on this front.

I'm not sure what number of layers the Mortsel machine can do in one pass or indeed if it's ever really been used to coat colour film materials in the E6/C41 era.

 

[Cholentpot]

Hurrying costs money that we quite simply do not have - and introduces the possibility for errors when you consider the size of our team.

For a clear and recent example, our team "hurried" to restore the both the 1917 slitter and "Baby" slitter. They were meticulous in the restoration and examined the cut rolls of base material quite carefully - but not using stringent (and time-consuming) QA protocols that would be in place were our team a bit larger.

Thus, the tiny flaws in the rubberized rollers became amplified during coating and were only discovered when we sent out sample rolls from the pre-production run.

We are certainly feeling urgency to ramp up to make enough P30 to meet demand that is already on the table - and of course to remain on schedule for color reversal in June/July.

But the simply truth is that we are not at all worried about competition. We welcome it wholeheartedly because, as I've said before, "a rising tide raises all boats" - and honestly, this is all we need to succeed.

Take your time, get it right. We're not going anywhere.

 

[flavio81]

Hurrying costs money that we quite simply do not have - and introduces the possibility for errors when you consider the size of our team.

For a clear and recent example, our team "hurried" to restore the both the 1917 slitter and "Baby" slitter. They were meticulous in the restoration and examined the cut rolls of base material quite carefully - but not using stringent (and time-consuming) QA protocols that would be in place were our team a bit larger.

Thus, the tiny flaws in the rubberized rollers became amplified during coating and were only discovered when we sent out sample rolls from the pre-production run.

We are certainly feeling urgency to ramp up to make enough P30 to meet demand that is already on the table - and of course to remain on schedule for color reversal in June/July.

But the simply truth is that we are not at all worried about competition. We welcome it wholeheartedly because, as I've said before, "a rising tide raises all boats" - and honestly, this is all we need to succeed.

Thanks for the reply Dave.

 

[cmacd123]

why does the confusion still come on the "agfa" history.

Basicaly Agfa in Belgium was the old Geveart plant. there business was (and Perhaps still is) "industrial Films" (Microfilm, aero film, electronic circuit film, Graphic arts (Litho) film etc. These days everything they do has been on a Polyester base, although their Movie Film like AGFA XT320 (used for example for this video ) was on acetate..

The Consumer photo business was in Germany, and was sold off to a New firm going by the name of Agfa Photo. They used up all the raw materials and then closed the plant and went out of business, selling some of the equipment to Inoviscoat and some to other players. Ilford does have an Agfa Made 120 spooling machine but they had traditionaly bought most of their production equipment from the engineering department of Agfa., so I am not sure if it is an EX-Agfa Germany unit or not.

the CR200 and CN200 was Agfa Belgium made Areo film, and so was not really intended for pictorial use.

Inoviscoat does have some of the older technology from AGFAPHOTO, but they basicaly make what their clients contract them to make.

Whatever is sold under the Agfa Photo name these days is bought from Various suppliers.

 

[1L6E6VHF]

Autochromes are a lot darker than slides using subtractive colors, so I am not really sure we want those except for curiosity value.

YES! Something of which many people are unaware. All reseau color films (Autochrome, Dufaycolor, Finlay, Polavision, etc.) have a layer of red, green and blue filters on the film whether there is color or not. Even an overexposed Autochrome of a white cloud has those filters in the way - so bright white is rendered as a gray.

It can be deceiving to see the old color images so bright and beautiful in the old National Geographic magazines, in which yellow appears bright yellow and white appears white. This was possible as, when separation negatives were produced for CMYK printing in the magazine, that the levels of each color could be adjusted, such that the gray of the red, green and blue filters of the original image are set at white.

 

[macfred]

... this video ) was on acetate ...

Does the acetate has to be associated with the strange hair in the video ?

 

[pbromaghin]

Well, sometimes defects are rather large as a percentage of a given coating. You may get only 50% good film out of a given coating run of a given product. It depends on product and varies with coater and company.

And, you cannot change from film to paper and back easily. Paper creates a lot of junk that must be cleaned up from the coater and the air, walls, floor and etc. This is dust that can mess up any film coating on the same machine.

PE

Ron, when Kodak starts it's coater, how much base material has to be fed through before they begin the actual coating?

 

[Photo Engineer]

Kodak coating machines use up to 1 mile of leader to thread them. That is basically 1 master roll. Then, after coating, they need one mile of trailer to keep them threaded. If you were to start the Kodak coater from scratch it would take 3 master rolls to coat one. From that one roll, you can get anywhere from 10% to 90% good product depending on the product.

PE

 

[Nzoomed]

Ron, when Kodak starts it's coater, how much base material has to be fed through before they begin the actual coating?

Im interested to know too.
I know with the ferrania Big Boy coater, there was about 40m lost at each end.

I remember this being said when translating the speech when watching the youtube clip.
There was a few factors for this, the high speed of film passing, setting the coating head properly and then the time it took for the lights to be turned off.

I did not think 40m was that bad actually lol.

 

[Nzoomed]

why does the confusion still come on the "agfa" history.

Basicaly Agfa in Belgium was the old Geveart plant. there business was (and Perhaps still is) "industrial Films" (Microfilm, aero film, electronic circuit film, Graphic arts (Litho) film etc. These days everything they do has been on a Polyester base, although their Movie Film like AGFA XT320 (used for example for this video ) was on acetate..

The Consumer photo business was in Germany, and was sold off to a New firm going by the name of Agfa Photo. They used up all the raw materials and then closed the plant and went out of business, selling some of the equipment to Inoviscoat and some to other players. Ilford does have an Agfa Made 120 spooling machine but they had traditionaly bought most of their production equipment from the engineering department of Agfa., so I am not sure if it is an EX-Agfa Germany unit or not.

the CR200 and CN200 was Agfa Belgium made Areo film, and so was not really intended for pictorial use.

Inoviscoat does have some of the older technology from AGFAPHOTO, but they basicaly make what their clients contract them to make.

Whatever is sold under the Agfa Photo name these days is bought from Various suppliers.

OK, so basically Agfa had two plants, which is what I suspected, and their Geveart plant was still in operation after Agfa Photo was sold off.

 

[Photo Engineer]

There is a difference between the essence of these two questions about how much support is used.

One refers to the total needed to coat 1 master roll and keep the machine threaded. The other refers to how much bad coating is at the start and finish of a coating session.

The former was answered above and the latter I will now comment on.

Depending on speed, the startup can take about 100 feet or less. At 1000 ft / minute, this gives you 0.1 minute to have good coating, and sometimes the hopper is not stable in that time. Six seconds is not much time. But at 100 ft / minute you have a full minute to establish the bead. Since Kodak can make product with 10% or less bad coating, you can assume that startup and shutdown are very rapid with little loss.

PE

 

[cmacd123]

Does the acetate has to be associated with the strange hair in the video ?

hair is normal if the name of the singer is "Boy George". The 'video" was apprently shot on an Agfa Movie film, and even as a video does show the typical laid back colour response of the Agfa belgium Stock. the variation is costumes gives more data points.

 

[Nzoomed]

Has anyone else got a kickstarter email about updating your address for the rewards?

I had updated my address with the P30 survey that everyone got, so is there any need to respond to the kickstarter email?

 

[cmacd123]

Just for something completely different.....

Got an e-mail from the Lomograpphy folks...

" In 2010, we bought the last ever Jumbo Roll of original 400 ASA film from some renowned Italian filmmakers. Then, ever the ones to experiment, we left the film to age like fine wine in oak casks in the Czech Republic. Thankfully, our crazy instincts were rewarded — seven years later, we went back to discover that this fantastic film still produces refined colors with a beautifully unique tone. It’s a one-of-a-kind Color Negative with an X-Pro feel and Tungsten overtones, and we’re so excited to share it with you! "

Sounds like they are running down on their stock of OLD Ferrania colour negative, to the point where it looks funky even by their eclectic standards. they are calling this " Color Negative F²/400 "

 

[Nzoomed]

Just for something completely different.....

Got an e-mail from the Lomograpphy folks...

" In 2010, we bought the last ever Jumbo Roll of original 400 ASA film from some renowned Italian filmmakers. Then, ever the ones to experiment, we left the film to age like fine wine in oak casks in the Czech Republic. Thankfully, our crazy instincts were rewarded — seven years later, we went back to discover that this fantastic film still produces refined colors with a beautifully unique tone. It’s a one-of-a-kind Color Negative with an X-Pro feel and Tungsten overtones, and we’re so excited to share it with you! "

Sounds like they are running down on their stock of OLD Ferrania colour negative, to the point where it looks funky even by their eclectic standards. they are calling this " Color Negative F²/400 "

lol, this is hillarious!

 

[Chris Livsey]

Has anyone else got a kickstarter email about updating your address for the rewards?

I had updated my address with the P30 survey that everyone got, so is there any need to respond to the kickstarter email?

My e-mail from them today is clear:
If this is the correct address, you're all set.

 

[cmacd123]

Has anyone else got a kickstarter email about updating your address for the rewards?
I had updated my address with the P30 survey that everyone got, so is there any need to respond to the kickstarter email?

if the address in the email is correct, My understanding is you are good to go. One of their "messages" indicated that they plan to move the listing of Backers off the Kickstarter servers and on to there own Customer database system in the near future.

If your address in the E-mail IS WRONG, you Really should try to get it corrected

 

[Nzoomed]

if the address in the email is correct, My understanding is you are good to go. One of their "messages" indicated that they plan to move the listing of Backers off the Kickstarter servers and on to there own Customer database system in the near future.

If your address in the E-mail IS WRONG, you Really should try to get it corrected

It was showing my old address, but I still have family living there, so no real big deal, I may as well correct it as long as it does not mess anything up.

 

[flavio81]

Just for something completely different.....

Got an e-mail from the Lomograpphy folks...

" In 2010, we bought the last ever Jumbo Roll of original 400 ASA film from some renowned Italian filmmakers. Then, ever the ones to experiment, we left the film to age like fine wine in oak casks in the Czech Republic.

Aha, this confirms what i've been suspecting -- that Foma made the 120 film conversion for Lomography.