Hello APUG from FILM Ferrania (PART 2)

[Berri]

esides, I'm overweight right now and all of the good food in Italy would really mess me up. I watched Giada DeLaurentis make an Italian Beef Wellington today on TV and I nearly gnawed a finger off waiting to have some food.

PE, I ensure you that food in Italy won't make you fat! Liguria has good olive oil, wine, fish, and basil of course!

 

[Berri]

Regarding making a color chemistry kit

I hope one day they'll produce some cibachrome chemicals and paper.

 

[Diapositivo]

half an hour from Savona

That was an advertisement. Being excessively sincere is not required

 

[klownshed]

Italian Beef Wellington

Don't worry. If you go to Italy your chances of finding a Beef Wellington (or any other artery clogging English dishes) are approximately 0%.

Actually, I think 0% is a bit high... ;-)

 

[flavio81]

I will hopefully have time sometime this week to sit down and watch the whole video; I'm grateful to flavio for making a quick summary available for those of us who are a bit limited on time.

Thanks, but note that my summary is not good since I got distracted with the "live chat" section.
There was much more discussed on the video. On the other hand, many things that were discussed that we APUG nerds already knew (i.e. that P30 was ISO 80, that it was a classic product, etc).

 

[flavio81]

Reading this web page on Ilford Color films, which contains an article of 1962:

"Your Colour Films and How They Are Processed", originally within the magazine 'Good Photography', July 1962.
http://www.photomemorabilia.co.uk/Ilford/Ilford_Colour_Films.html

I caught this interesting bit from the article:

The "Agfa" (substantive) type of film presents no difficulties in processing and, if the chemicals are available or the formulae are published, the amateur can process his own films of this type to the same standard as the professional processing stations. The most popular film for home processing is undoubtedly Ferraniacolor for which kits are sold by Johnsons (of Hendon) (...)

Interesting!!

 

[Cholentpot]

I'd like to see a more affordable C-41 home kit. Where it sits now it costs near $30 for a kit after all said and done. For a kit rated for 8 135 rolls that's a bit steep. The chems can't be all that expensive. If the kits were cheaper I'd shoot more film.

That being said I push my kits beyond 20 rolls consistently. And as of now it's the only way I can shoot and develop cine film.

 

[Berri]

$30 for a kit after all said and done. For a kit rated for 8 135 rolls

Usually the 1L kit is for 12 film. I mix half liter at time and get 7/8 rolls each, 15/16 rolls.

 

[Prest_400]

There was much more discussed on the video. On the other hand, many things that were discussed that we APUG nerds already knew (i.e. that P30 was ISO 80, that it was a classic product, etc).

When they discussed about P30, I was suprised that they had a couple of formulas and one was last coated on the 70s in the LRF -- Doable formula (I guess they had to tweak) in the same facilities. PE commented that products cannot be transferred between facilities easily.
So a sweet surprise that they could actually put a direct P30 derivative.

I'd like to see a more affordable C-41 home kit. Where it sits now it costs near $30 for a kit after all said and done. For a kit rated for 8 135 rolls that's a bit steep. The chems can't be all that expensive. If the kits were cheaper I'd shoot more film.

That being said I push my kits beyond 20 rolls consistently. And as of now it's the only way I can shoot and develop cine film.

C41 is off the map at the moment and there was no talk about it. Solaris was the last Film Ferrania made (in the large coater) but perhaps the Scotchrome was the last that the LRF made, thus the formulation -> production differs. This was briefly talked about, how they have a book of products that were made in LRF.

The first colour will be E6 in the window of June-July (which I still find very close and amazin). The issue with chemistry (kits) is that require dedication and that means diverting two people off the team, given the priority is making film I don't know if they will be able to do Chemistry very soon.
It is incredible what a team of 6 in the LRF could and can do. Meanwhile in Rochester..?

There was an anecdote by Dave finding himself seeing the team arguing and gesticulating in Italian, to which Beppe raised a finger and said that the issue was not if they could make film anymore, rather how they would do!

 

[MattKing]

This thread has now had more than 100,000 views - impressive!

 

[flavio81]

This thread has now had more than 100,000 views - impressive!

It's over 9000!

 

[MattKing]

It's over 9000!

???

 

[flavio81]

When they discussed about P30, I was suprised that they had a couple of formulas and one was last coated on the 70s in the LRF -- Doable formula (I guess they had to tweak) in the same facilities. PE commented that products cannot be transferred between facilities easily.
So a sweet surprise that they could actually put a direct P30 derivative.

The big coater ("big boy") was so huge, soooo huge (i guess Over 9000 square meters), that you would think that the head of the coater at the LRF should be designed in such a way to be identical to the one in the Big Boy, but with a far smaller width. I mean, the LRF coaters must have been built (1965?) with an intentional similarity to the Big Boy coater, in a way that an emulsion tested in the LRF is easy to be 'translated' to the Big Boy.

I mean, if an emulsion is tested to work great in the LRF, and then it can't be translated "as-is", or with predictable tweaks to the Big Boy, then the costs of final testing in Big Boy itself would be huge.

I will wait for Photo Engineer to enlighten us on this topic.

 

[FILM Ferrania]

A transcript is IMHO always preferable to a video. Much faster to read than listen, easier to remember, good for people not fluent in English, indexed by search engines, etc.

It's really funny that you say this because despite the volumes and volumes of text we have published on our site, the vast majority of people simply do not read. We know this because we are continually asked questions that we have already answered, often many times.

We will continue on a course of both text-based posts and videos because they both serve their purpose for different users.

I see that there's a new resource added to the team
Anne Bowerman - Anne has grown her direct marketing experience into social media savvy that few can match. She is a community builder with vast experience in the analog film world and the online voice of FILM Ferrania.

Anne has been on our team from day one. She is my life-partner, girlfriend, mate - whatever term you like - and in terms of our work, we have been an inseparable team the days of starting Impossible America in 2008.

There is no me without her...

 

[FILM Ferrania]

They talked about releasing a (color reversal?) development kit. Dave says they can make it.

That part of the chat was about processing chemistry for P30, not color reversal. We have the formula and the ability to make the original stuff, but as I explained, with our small team, we have to carefully balance the workload, so we don't expect to release it for several months.

In fact, if the choice is to finish our color reversal film, or make "native" processing chemistry for P30, we'll keep working on the color film. That said, we're going to try to squeeze in a small batch sooner than later.

In the long run, we plan to make dev kits for every film we make - but of course, making chemistry available globally is extremely tricky...

 

[FILM Ferrania]

Will the Ferrania P30 come in DX-coded cartridges? That would make it easier to shoot in my Pentax P30T.

Seconding this, for my Yashica T4. I'd have asked myself but I was out buying a projector!

ALPHA won't be available with DX coding, but the final version will be.

 

[FILM Ferrania]

Located half an hour from Genoa, and two hours train from Milan, in the wonderful nature of Liguria, you can spend three, four years of pleasant work in a non-competitive, non-stressing work environment.
While being there, you will learn a new language, you will taste a new cuisine, you will make new friends, and you will see Trump on TV no more than once a day!
You will not be waken up any more at night by those awful barn nightmares!
You will contribute to a mighty task, and inscribe your name in a wall of fame. You'll help making history.

From my short trip to Italy in December, I can say without any reservations at all that it's worth it for the food (and coffee) alone.

 

[Nzoomed]

ALPHA won't be available with DX coding, but the final version will be.

Thats cool with me, because my Pentax Spotmatic does not read DX codes! lol

 

[Prest_400]

I mean, if an emulsion is tested to work great in the LRF, and then it can't be translated "as-is", or with predictable tweaks to the Big Boy, then the costs of final testing in Big Boy itself would be huge.
I will wait for Photo Engineer to enlighten us on this topic.

Hadn't thought about it, quite logical. That the 1970's LRF P30 worked rather easily must have been, seeing the result. Supposedly all final big facility products should have done a prior run in the LRF during research phase.

From my short trip to Italy in December, I can say without any reservations at all that it's worth it for the food (and coffee) alone.

Being from Spain but on the same Mediterranean shores I can corroborate that. Follow a good Mediterranean diet and excercise in the fantastic environment here.
The LRF seems to be a helluva barn.

Thanks Dave, Ted and Anne for the broadcast. It was very interesting and fun. (OT) Also, how incredible tech allowed people from all around remote locations to do and see this. Amazing.

 

[FILM Ferrania]

D76 is way different than D96

Yes, yes... We know that they are different, and I knew that I would get called to the mat for this.

I did point out that D96 is much better. Marco has been insisting that it is THE chemistry that should be used to process P30. But that's because he can buy it with no problem through his cinema lab in Florence.

Buying D96 is next to impossible for normal people. We did a fairly broad search and could not find a "regular" reseller. (If you have a source, please let us know and we'll certainly share!)

But the vast majority of people don't want or need a detailed breakdown comparing the chemical makeup of D76 vs D96. Both are made by Kodak to process B&W film. D76 for still and D96 for cinema. This is "the same" enough for about 90% of the people following our story.

 

[Photo Engineer]

If there is a difference between coating machines, you can develop a scaling method to predict the changes needed to move products around. Most all of the time it works. One notable failure at EK was Kodachrome 25, where the initial transition did not work, but it was terminated before a final formula could be reached. There was not enough money to continue the work.

PE

 

[cmacd123]

OK, dont get this, as i thought it was required for motion picture use in cameras with high film speed? In the interview they said it would not be suitable for such use because of the lack of remjet.

If you read the data sheets for the currently available movie films for Black and white they tend to have an antistatic /lubrication layer on the back. But that is clear as B&W processes (as explained in Module 15 of the kodak manuals) don't have the spray arms and such that REM-JET would require. " BASE EASTMAN DOUBLE-X Negative Film has a gray acetate safety base. The backside of the base contains an anti-static layer with lubricant. " and "The N 74 plus is a marked advance over its predecessor, thanks to improved slippage,extremely low shedding and excellent antistatic qualities. {antistatic back layer}

"

 

[FILM Ferrania]

Seriously though, I've never been asked anything by Ferrania, and I don't think they even know who I am. I doubt if I could help them.

Not true! I know who you are (roughly) and Nicola lurks on this forum from time to time as well. I think he visits primarily to laugh at how much you guys beat me up on technical stuff like the inherent difference between D76 and D96.

I'm quite sure you could help us. There are the caveats of moving to Cairo Montenotte, and speaking Italian since our team doesn't speak much English. And of course there's the question of whether or not we could even afford to hire you.

But hey, if you're yearning to work in a lovely, bucolic setting in small-town rural Italy and help us make some film - by all means get in touch directly!!

 

[Nzoomed]

C41 is off the map at the moment and there was no talk about it. Solaris was the last Film Ferrania made (in the large coater) but perhaps the Scotchrome was the last that the LRF made, thus the formulation -> production differs. This was briefly talked about, how they have a book of products that were made in LRF.

I think the main reason that Scotchchrome was chosen was because there are already tons of negative C41 films on the market, but at the time Film Ferrania got started, Kodak had recently stopped production of Ektachrome and an E6 film was the logical choice, even with the return of Ektachrome, E6 film has the biggest gap in the market.

Obviously Kodak feel there is enough demand for them to warrant restarting its production.

I feel this means that the film decline has halted and there is some resurgence, much like vinyl...

 

[FILM Ferrania]

B&W Movie Film NEVER was with the rem jet, no B&W movie processor (unless it was converted from a colour machine) has the spray arms to remove rem jet. ECN, ECN2 and Kodachrome are the ones with rem jet.

(some B&W film like Double-X 7/5222, does have an antistatic layer on the back but that survives processing. Most 120 roll film has a antihalation dye coating but that either dissolves or clears in the Developer.)

My bad on the rem jet. I was extrapolating from Nicola telling me that P30 ALPHA 35mm is "not ready for cinema usage".

I'm prone to extrapolation from minimal input, and in the heat of a live video stream, I obviously said a few things that are not technically correct, even if they are correct "in spirit"...