Harman Photo cryptic announcement/teaser

[pentaxuser]

Yes, it's been killing me since mid October and I was one of the first to know and I'm trying to do my best to not give anything away haha

Jemzyboz, based on this and some previous statements you have made you certainly appear to be a key "insider" in what might be termed "a small inner circle", even to the extent of spotting the "release" of what the product is on a Facebook as an admin but luckily being able to remove the telling entry in that capacity.

Just out of curiosity and not directed at what the product is, you will be pleased to know, can I ask: Was this the Harman/ Ilford section of Facebook where presumably the admin or admins are on a heightened state of alert as we approach 1 Dec?

As someone in an "inner circle" can you say if any thought has been give to what Harman might do if some one here "hits " on what the announcement actually is as someone did on Facebook last night? After all we have such "in the know" admins or moderators as we call them

Here's a thought: Were you actually able to remove the "tell " on Facebook before it appeared to any other members. If so, isn't the particular member likely to be asking why his/her statement has not appeared on Facebook? Perhaps he/she has been contacted and brought into the "cognoscenti" so "silenced" in that way?

If you can tell us more about what appears to me to be a real dilemma in terms of a decision about what action to take about the potential leak I''d be fascinated to hear about it. It's amazing that it took until last night for someone to actually hit on the right answer. You'd think that given all our speculation here on Photrio someone has already come close to the answer but of course we are none the wiser as no-one from Harman or what I have termed the "inner circle" has responded which is one way of "keeping the lid" on it. That did not appear to be your tactic as an admin on Facebook hence my questions above on the dilemma of " to act or not to act" consequences

Given the risks as we get closer to 1 Dec, are there other Facebook admins taking it in shifts to maintain the surveillance required or are you the only one?

This must be quite an onerous task as from my recollection of your previous presence here on Photrio albeit several years ago, aren't you connected to the company called Zone Imaging run or owned by James Lane whose main product is 510 Pyro

In fact didn't someone here say that you were James Lane ?

Thanks

pentaxuser

 

[koraks]

Little point in us continuing the "courtroom joust" in terms of it getting us anywhere. I feel

Did you, or did you not, make the statement repeated above, and if you did, could you please explain to us all whether you intended aforementioned statement to be bound in time or context in any way, or, if you instead intended this statement to be valid at least up to the date of 1 December, which we all understand in this process to be of critical importance and thus we will all agree that statements such as yours above would become moot?

 

[analogwisdom]

Here's a thought: Were you actually able to remove the "tell " on Facebook before it appeared to any other members. If so, isn't the particular member likely to be asking why his/her statement has not appeared on Facebook? Perhaps he/she has been contacted and brought into the "cognoscenti" so "silenced" in that way?

What happened on Facebook?

 

[mshchem]

Did you, or did you not, make the statement repeated above, and if you did, could you please explain to us all whether you intended aforementioned statement to be bound in time or context in any way, or, if you instead intended this statement to be valid at least up to the date of 1 December, which we all understand in this process to be of critical importance and thus we will all agree that statements such as yours above would become moot?

Your statement is moot, my statement is moot, everyone's statement is moot!

Over 700 replies so far. Harman is brilliant!! This may be bigger than the Photoflo thread!

 

[BrianShaw]

What happened on Facebook?

Post number six hundred ninety.

 

[BrianShaw]

Your statement is moot, my statement is moot, everyone's statement is moot!

Over 700 replies so far. Harman is brilliant!! This may be bigger than the Photoflo thread!

… but not more than the original “deleted” thread! Which was completely moot.

 

[koraks]

Wow, is Harman going to come out with a Photoflo product?
Will they offer an alkaline stop bath, too?

 

[Jemzyboz]

Wow, is Harman going to come out with a Photoflo product?
Will they offer an alkaline stop bath, too?

Isn't Ilfotol basically Photoflo?

(Ilford don't kill me for heresy! )

 

[BrianShaw]

Wow, is Harman going to come out with a Photoflo product?
Will they offer an alkaline stop bath, too?

I’m betting that it’s a pre-wash/pre-wetting water product.

 

[koraks]

I’m betting that it’s a pre-wash/pre-wetting water product.

That would (be) swell!

 

[Ian Grant]

Another Forum has a post summarising this thread up to the 6th November, with everything put together concisely

One thing they have made clear is from the video interview Giles Branthwaite, Sales & Marketing Director at Harman responded "Yeah, we're investing, of course we're investing. I can't disclose the projects or products we're investing in, at this stage. They're not at that level we can do that, yet. But yes of course, we have an R&D department, we're investing through the R&D department. We're investing in our manufacturing as well; we're just investing multi millions into new production capabilities. That's the first time we've been able to say that in decades, literally decades. So that's all good news. There is more stuff coming through; I just can't detail it at this stage.

When Ilford moved from Essex in the early 1980s they had numerous facilities, they effectively downsized selling their Medical and Graphic arts division to Agfa-Gevaert, moving to new purpose built facilities at the former Rajar works, in Mobberley, that was not really an investment as it was funded by the sale of their old factories.

The UK Monopolies Commission had dealt a death blow to the older Ilfochrome and Ilfocolor films which had to be sent back to Ilford for processing, as the processes were proprietary. The Commission ruled they had to allow third party processing, with the volume of sales that was uneconomic without all the processing as well. Anothe issue was Ilford colour products were essentially based on pre-WWII technolgy. During WWII Ilford was effectively controlled by the RAF. who halted colour research. they did improve B&W films. which were 2 generations ahead of Kodak equivalents.

Ilford/Harman haven't built on the grassy plot earmarked in the 1980s for a colour coating line, I went there a few times around 1982 or 3, they wanted to supply me with emulsion, I was trialing Ilfospeed Grade 3. So a multi-million pound investment in production facilities can only mean one thing when that's alongside R&D.

Lets look at a different aspect of the photographic market. Kodak made huge mistakes in International early 2000s, closing their own distribution companies in most countries. Herein the UK the marketing/sales team were made redundant, Sangers took over, they couldn't cope, and went bankrupt. I know from experience that in other countries the new distributors focused on the mini-lab market. Neglecting the photo stores. I've said this many times in Turkey and South America it was easy ti get Ilford films they were everywhere, and there were odd rolls of Fuji, but almost no Kodak.

Ilford have a superb sales network Internationally so entering a world of colour would make sense.

Ian

 

[cerber0s]

That would (be) swell!

Buahahahaha!

 

[MattKing]

Thread locked for now.

 

[koraks]

Thread reopened, with some remarks below.

We figured that there is a desire among the community to speculate and discuss this development, and this is the most sensible place for such a discussion.
We have cleaned up some stuff that leaned towards personal attacks, which is obviously not OK. Please also consider that being critical of industry players is fine, but let's not stoop down to the level of slander, bashing, hate speech etc. Rule #1 of this forum applies to everyone and everything, also outside Photrio: discuss respectfully.

Thank you, and please carry on.

 

[Prest_400]

This thread was locked just as something relevant was posted. The Harman team are gonna be in California during the reveal date (Dec. 1-2) and are participating in photowalks.

HARMAN Photo Meetup Dec. 1-2, 2023 - The Darkroom Photo Lab

uncategorized - Read more about HARMAN Photo Meetup Dec. 1-2, 2023 - The Darkroom photo lab has 40+ yrs of quality film developing & scanning.

thedarkroom.com

 

[Helge]

1st of December seems to be a special day for Harman.

What was it again last year?

 

[Dustin McAmera]

Ilford "Something is coming"

I don't think it's Delta 25 or HP6++ because we'd surely have heard about that being beta tested. Kentmere in 120? Possible. Something previously unavailable in sheet film? Possible. 220? Highly unlikely. I also don't think it's something as mundane as an Ilford branded duffel bag. Though i did...

www.photrio.com

It was Kentmere films in 120 size.

 

[BrianShaw]

Maybe it’s Kentmere films in 220 size this year?

And next year, perhaps Kentmere in 320!

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I'd rather see Kentmere in sheet film sizes than 220 or ISO 320... but, I feel like it'll be bigger than that. Colour.
I was just in my local camera shop, and they are quite busy taking colour film from customers to send off for processing. Even though I don't touch colour films, it made me pretty happy. I bought a wack of D100 120 for my senior photo students just to spice up their photography experience

 

[Dustin McAmera]

It would make sense for Harman to have something to launch that you can try out while on a photo-walk at four in the afternoon in San Clemente CA. My weather app says there will be just one rainy day in San Clemente this month, and the 1st December is supposed to be sunny, with temperature up to 19°C on such a winter's day. So there will be no freebie umbrellas, and they will have their Harman hoodies (if any) slung over their shoulders for the photo walk. At that time in Mobberley you'd want ISO 3200 and a good raincoat.

 

[tokam]

If they are spending a of of money then I don't see Pemberton being too enthused with niche products such as LF or 220 film.

The mainstream areas of film photography that could help grow their business would be C41 colour film, (high current demand) and film processing chemicals (in the absence of Tetenal and Sino Promise).

If photographers shoot Ilford film and cannot get commercial developers / fixers etc then that may inhibit future growth in the market as a lot of us don't want to home brew our processing solutions.

My money is on marketing C41 film, (manufactured in-house or confectioning Kodak / Fuji master rolls), or bringing manufacturing of their BW processing chemicals back in house.

 

[Mike Crawford]

My money is on marketing C41 film, (manufactured in-house or confectioning Kodak / Fuji master rolls), or bringing manufacturing of their BW processing chemicals back in house.

It would be great to see Harman bring back manufacturing Ilford chemicals in the UK as there has been a real up and down supply over the last year or more with all the problems in Germany, but as the US launch looks like quite a big thing with a load of US YouTubers being involved in marketing the new xxxx, doubt bottles of chemicals would be sexy enough for such events! Though if it is a colour film, C41 kits would be an obvious addition.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Ilfochrome.

 

[bardamu]

Ilfochrome.

that would be great, but then not many labs are doing E6 anymore at least here in Europe

 

[Ernst-Jan]

that would be great, but then not many labs are doing E6 anymore at least here in Europe

Don't generalise, for the Netherlands, you can drop of E6 in over 500 HEMA stores and pick them up a couple of days later for €4... Developing is done by Fujifilm.