In another thread I mentioned that I hope that Kodak would buy out Fuji or something like that and take over the Fuji line as well, so I was thinking that when I said nothing about ektar.
The lineup I see happening would be...
Velvia50(or 100 or both if possible)
Portra 160
Portra 400
Tmax400
This isn't about getting rid of "bad" lines of film, this is about cutting down lines that have competition.
Eventually Kodak's large machines will be coating larger batches than they can sell, so they need to slim down similar lines and focus on the stuff that doesn't compete with anything else.
The "supermarket" lines would simply be from runs that didn't pass Kodak's high quality check standards, and when they didn't have any failed runs, the supermarket stuff would be just as good, but for those who wanted a guarantee they would buy the Portra professional film and the Portra consumer line would be hit or miss...but probably still really good stuff...
If they didn't have such a large coating machine, none of this would be necessary...
This is crazy...
You think they should drop to one B&W film? At the end of the day, B&W will be the last films being produced. Color will die off before B&W.
What you seem to be saying is Kodak shouldn't compete, and lower their QC standards (or at least pawn off the film that doesn't hit the standards). Their reputation was built on quality. Lowering their standards would be a good way to destroy that reputation.
This is crazy...
You think they should drop to one B&W film? At the end of the day, B&W will be the last films being produced. Color will die off before B&W.
What you seem to be saying is Kodak shouldn't compete, and lower their QC standards (or at least pawn off the film that doesn't hit the standards). Their reputation was built on quality. Lowering their standards would be a good way to destroy that reputation.
personally i think they should only make one film and a camera ..
and they should these cameras with film in it loaded
with a mailer to send back to a lab, mail the prints to the consumer
and the camera loaded again with film.
the hell with 10 films, color and black + white
They did but finally cancelled that concept...
In another thread I mentioned that I hope that Kodak would buy out Fuji or something like that and take over the Fuji line as well, so I was thinking that when I said nothing about ektar.
The lineup I see happening would be...
Velvia50(or 100 or both if possible)
Portra 160
Portra 400
Tmax400
This isn't about getting rid of "bad" lines of film, this is about cutting down lines that have competition.
Eventually Kodak's large machines will be coating larger batches than they can sell, so they need to slim down similar lines and focus on the stuff that doesn't compete with anything else.
The "supermarket" lines would simply be from runs that didn't pass Kodak's high quality check standards, and when they didn't have any failed runs, the supermarket stuff would be just as good, but for those who wanted a guarantee they would buy the Portra professional film and the Portra consumer line would be hit or miss...but probably still really good stuff...
If they didn't have such a large coating machine, none of this would be necessary...
(And of course replace Velvia with Ektar100 for reality since kodak would never probably take over a Fuji emulsion and Fuji wouldn't hand the technology over to kodak anyway)
Perhaps maybe Fuji will sell the technology to FILM Ferrania...
I think you're off by a mile, Stone. Color film is being eaten alive by digital. Why focus on color film? The only survivor of all films is going to be black & white.
Personally I enjoy shooting one single emulsion a lot, but there are plenty of people out there who can't wait to try out all of the available films, just so they can get the 'look' of a particular emulsion... If you limit yourself to one b&w emulsion, you are going to kill a very large following of the other films.
I don't see you logic at all. Fuji will not sell off their technology, and Ferrania will not have the money to buy it anyway. Smaller players like ADOX will survive. Ilford will be fine because they are flexible.
In my letter to the president I told Kodak Alaris to closely take a look at companies like ADOX and Ilford, who not only participate actively among photographers, actual end users, but they have also intelligently sized their equipment to meet the demands of a shrinking market. I'm sure Ferrania has done the same math. Large scale film production is a thing of the past. Flexibility is the only way to go. Once the movie industry demand disappears to less volume than Kodak can manufacture without film getting old between coatings will be the pain threshold. Then it'll be free fall for color film on large scale.
I'm watching Fujifilm. They are at the last one standing with regards to having a decent product line by breadth. As a 120 shooter, they have these films for me.
E-6
Velvia
Provia
C41
400H
B & W
Acros
This would be relatively ideal if they had a 400 speed Neopan still around.
Thankfully, Ilford is here and can and has taken up that slack for my shooting needs.
Reala 100 would make that list perfect (as well as dropping Provia for Astia), but I guess we could survive on this.
I agree with you about the fact that scaling down is the best option, but that's why I was saying about cutting back on film lines because Kodak CANNOT scale down, the machine is too massive that they currently have and the cost of producing a new machine is just too high, so Kodak has to take a different approach than the other companies in order to stay in the game.
They could theoretically rent time on a different coating machine. According to PE it would be far from trivial to move production without changing the product, but if the choice is either shutting down the Kodak brand or making the film on Harman's or Agfa's coating facility...
Part of the quality of the kodak film is their specialized machine they designed to be almost completely without emulsion flaws...
I agree with you about the fact that scaling down is the best option, but that's why I was saying about cutting back on film lines because Kodak CANNOT scale down, the machine is too massive that they currently have and the cost of producing a new machine is just too high, so Kodak has to take a different approach than the other companies in order to stay in the game.
Regarding the future of color film and the discussion on it being dependant on movie film: unless Fuji has been all this time selling old stock, we already have some proof that photographic color film viability doesn't depend on motion picture film stocks (printfilm or ECN2). Fuji has already gotten out of that business and yet they are still in the color film photography business...
But sure, maybe they have already demolished the coating machines and are just selling stored film...
Think agfa sold off most of their plant equipment but not for photography.
So, they actually read and replied, this is a good sign.
I too sent an email to Mr. Gerbershagen. I've received two interesting responses so far.
First, I'll post an excerpted version of my email below. The edited out parts include some details about the fact that my father worked for Kodak Canada for 35+ years, and that he remains close to his surviving colleagues, and loyal to his employer.
Mr. Ralf Gerbershagen
Chief Executive Officer
Kodak Alaris
Dear Mr. Gerbershagen:
Congratulations on your new role with Kodak Alaris.
As I understand it, you have requested suggestions and feedback from your customer base. With this email I hope to help.
I am a lifelong (40+ year) Canadian customer of Kodak, ......
I continue to use Kodak film products for a lot of my photography, and seek out labs who use Kodak materials. I also recommend them whenever I can, including recommending Kodak darkroom materials.
I am conversant with a fair bit of the digital photography world, but it is not my favourite photographic destination.
So as you can no doubt guess, my suggestions and feedback relate to the so called "analogue" Kodak photographic products.
My first and primary suggestion is that you address what I see to be a serious problem with your distribution system.
I have a fair bit of contact with people at the retail level in photographic merchandising and photographic processing in my area - the Vancouver area of British Columbia, Canada and the Seattle area of Washington state, USA.
Almost without exception, the people I deal with indicate:
1) they have difficulty obtaining, in a timely manner, Kodak film,darkroom chemistry or, in the case of the labs, Kodak paper or chemistry;and
2) they have little or no access to support people who can provide technical support.
Also, and more generally, I continually encounter people who don't believe that Kodak film or photographic materials still exist.
My sense is that there are a number of retailers in my area who would use and sell more Kodak materials if there was more information about them available to the public, and more merchandise available for retailers or labs.
And I definitely know of a number of people who would shoot more colour film and make their own colour prints if there were again available:
a) cut sheet colour paper for use in small labs/darkrooms;
b) reasonably sized kits for C-41 processing materials;
c) reasonably sized kits for RA-4 processing materials; and
d) reasonably sized kits for E-6 processing materials.
There have been a few statements from Kodak Alaris indicating that film products will remain available as long as they are profitable. That makes sense, but really fails to build confidence in those who use Kodak materials now but don't know whether to switch.
It would be very supportive of your existing customer base if we heard statements from Kodak Alaris that indicated:
A) Kodak Alaris intends to grow their film and analogue photography business;
B) Kodak Alaris will continue to strive to innovate and improve their existing film and analogue photography products;
C) Kodak Alaris will strive to introduce new film and analogue photography products where market conditions permit; and
D) Kodak Alaris will seek to increase the existing customer base for film and analogue photography products by promoting their real advantages to those who have either never used them before, or who would be happy to come back to them.
It would also be very supportive if you would have an active presence on the internet fora that are heavily oriented toward photographic issues. I am a very regular contributor on the Analogue Photographic Users Group forum - APUG.org. Harman/Ilford participate actively there,and seem to gain customers regularly - including people who stop using Kodak and start using Ilford because of that participation. If Kodak Alaris had a presence on that site it would sell a fair bit of film.
I learned about your request for input from an APUG thread.
Finally, I may as well add a personal request. If you could bring back Plus-X in 35mm and 120 sizes I would be very grateful.
I hope this might be of assistance to you. If you need anything further from me, please do not hesitate to contact me.
Regards,
Matt King
Here is Mr. Gerbershagen's response to me:
Dear Matt,
Thank you for reaching out to me. It's nice to meet you via e-mail.
I have cc'd our Paper & Output Systems Business Manager, Richard Condon as well as our Film Capture Business Manager, Thomas Mooney who can provide you with some additional information regarding your comments below.
I appreciate your kind words and look forward to our future. Please stay in touch with me.
Sincerely,
Ralf
I also received a further response from Thomas Mooney, the Film Capture Business Manager. It contained a standard form "confidentiality" warning, so I don't feel I can copy it here, without permission, but he did thank me and indicate that he will be bringing the concerns to the attention of their Canadian sales organization "to improve the situation"
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