First roll of Harman Phoenix photos up!

[Chuck1]

I'm a little color blind, but I like that blue.

 

[Agulliver]

I just looked at the website of my local old-cameras shop to see if they still have Phoenix to sell. They have; but I was surprised to see they have put in place rationing; not just Phoenix but any colour film is now limited to three rolls per customer.

This has been quite common where I live (East of England) and elsewhere for at least a couple of years now. Supply of colour negative film have been insufficient to meet demand since at least 2018.

Picked up my negatives and had a nice chat with the people at my local camera shop/mini lab. Apparently my single roll of Phoenix has caused a but of a stir and the staff were all fascinated with the results, and agree that with more care the scans/prints could all be made to look at least reasonable. She made no manual adjustments, but has since had a go with a couple in Photoshop and found that they can be rescued. They have one more customer who got hold of some and will be having it developed in the new year, and several more who have phoned them asking if they have "any of that new Phoenix film". Their supplier now seems to list it so maybe the next batch. They reckon it'll sell like hotcakes to the younger customers who don't mind or even like that it's experimental.

 

[Ivo Stunga]

They reckon it'll sell like hotcakes to the younger customers who don't mind or even like that it's experimental.

I can see it and I like the idea that the age of perfect, true-to-life digital captures might not give to many young photographers what they're after subconsciously: an abstraction from reality that Lomo and Phoenix gives them.

 

[albireo]

I can see it and I like the idea that the age of perfect, true-to-life digital captures might not give to many young photographers what they're after subconsciously: an abstraction from reality that Lomo and Phoenix gives them.

Lomo and Phoenix do not seem to be in the same class as abstraction 'vehicles', based on the best examples of Phoenix I'm seeing online, and based on what Google tells me Lomo Is.

Talking about abstraction and the subconscious, I think I've stumbled on your work on Flickr. You are the guy who inverts traditional black and white film to make positives, right? Your work is often beautiful, but I think it is , from a methodology point of view, as far removed from realism as what those young people are getting with lomo. Actually more, because choosing black and white and not using colour is the biggest abstraction from reality possible probably.

I think most of us use the film medium to experiment to a degree, even the older generations of photographers. I have a book by Koudelka on my lap right now. I think there is nothing realistic in the dodged and burned faces of the Gypsies that pop out from the darkness in the images I'm looking at right now, for instance.

I think defining realism is tricky business. Happy holidays all!

 

[Agulliver]

I can see it and I like the idea that the age of perfect, true-to-life digital captures might not give to many young photographers what they're after subconsciously: an abstraction from reality that Lomo and Phoenix gives them.

Lomography films (at least the "trick" films) and Phoenix are different beasts but currently serve some of the same market. I was chatting last night with one such 19 year old lad getting into photography and studying it at university. He's gone out and got a 20+ year old digital camera and is being given a 35mm film camera....and he wants to try *everything*....but colour, he's not much interested in B&W despite having seen a lot of my recent B&W work.

The supplier that my local shop uses has not got Phoenix up on their website or on the emails they give out to the businesses who they deal with....but the shop phoned them and they believe they'll have some of the next batch. Customers at the shop, mostly much younger than I, are calling asking if they have Phoenix. At the moment it seems almost some sort of "holy grail" for people who didn't get in early on 1 December. Whether that lasts remains to be seen, but I've given permission for my Phoenix images to be shared and that has not done any harm to the interest locally.

I found time to pick up my negatives on Thursday so I'll be scanning my Phoenix film myself maybe next week. The film has a vaguely purple base which must add to the interesting scanning.

 

[Ivo Stunga]

Lomo and Phoenix do not seem to be in the same class of abstraction vehicles, based on the best examples of Phoenix I'm seeing online, and based on what Google tells me Lomo Is.

Agreed, but as of now - they both serve funky films for those of us that like this.

You are the guy who inverts traditional black and white film to make positives, right? Your work is often beautiful, but I think it is , from a methodology point of view, as far removed from realism as what those young people are getting with lomo. Actually more, because choosing black and white and not using colour is the biggest abstraction from reality possible probably.

Thanks! But the thing in my case is: if E-6 films were as available now as back when I started to shoot them, and shoot for projection specifically, I've might not approached BW at all - I was curious about it, but it wasn't a necessity. When E-6 films "died on me" however, I moved on to BW challenge and I'm glad I did - taught me a lot, experimentation made me a better photographer

Whether that lasts remains to be seen

Some of this is hype and FOMO - fear of missing out, for sure. Time will tell. More available film is good.

 

[koraks]

I can see it and I like the idea that the age of perfect, true-to-life digital captures might not give to many young photographers what they're after subconsciously: an abstraction from reality that Lomo and Phoenix gives them.

Certainly, and I think in that sense Phoenix serves a purpose. What I do wonder is to what extent this will be the equivalent of glitter paint or an instagram filter that automagically gives you a fancy alteration of reality without having to spend thought on it. That's fine for amusement purposes, but personally I find it more interesting if this is applied consciously and with intent. I'm looking forward to seeing the work of photographers who manage to use this film in more than a "what does this button do" kind of way.

 

[brbo]

"Index" scan of my first roll. I wanted to shoot Phoenix really bad, but had absolutely nothing to shoot and weather was as grey as it gets here for most of the time. Nothing interesting on the roll, so the motivation for full resolution scans is really low. Maybe I'll do one or two later... I totally messed the shot of the it8 target and underexposed a few other shots, but if you scan your film it seems like Phoenix is already usable if you are aware of its limitations.

 

[koraks]

Looking good, @brbo! Now go and print one or two of those in the darkroom, tell me what you think after that. I found the transition from scanning this film to printing it...fundamental.

 

[brbo]

Now go and print one or two of those in the darkroom, tell me what you think after that.

Looking at the negatives, I'm afraid to take them anywhere near the darkroom...

 

[albireo]

"Index" scan of my first roll. I wanted to shoot Phoenix really bad, but had absolutely nothing to shoot and weather was as grey as it gets here for most of the time. Nothing interesting on the roll, so the motivation for full resolution scans is really low. Maybe I'll do one or two later... I totally messed the shot of the it8 target and underexposed a few other shots, but if you scan your film it seems like Phoenix is already usable if you are aware of its limitations.

Thanks for sharing. Those frames 14 to 18 are beautiful, and I see nothing lomo-ish about them at all.

The weather here has been utterly miserable and my roll is sitting in my OM2n stuck at frame 0.

EDIT - @brbo if you have some time I'd love to see a higher res scan of 14 and 18. Those red roofs in the evening light in 18 are rendering really nicely on my monitor.

 

[Chuck1]

Thanks for sharing. Those frames 14 to 18 are beautiful, and I see nothing lomo-ish about them at all.

The weather here has been utterly miserable and my roll is sitting in my OM2n stuck at frame 0.

EDIT - @brbo if you have some time I'd love to see a higher res scan of 14 and 18. Those red roofs in the evening light in 18 are rendering really nicely on my monitor.

If you have the time to post the negatives, alongside the inverted, corrected images, I'd be curios to see that.
The corrections look good

 

[Sirius Glass]

Lomo and Phoenix do not seem to be in the same class as abstraction 'vehicles', based on the best examples of Phoenix I'm seeing online, and based on what Google tells me Lomo Is.

Talking about abstraction and the subconscious, I think I've stumbled on your work on Flickr. You are the guy who inverts traditional black and white film to make positives, right? Your work is often beautiful, but I think it is , from a methodology point of view, as far removed from realism as what those young people are getting with lomo. Actually more, because choosing black and white and not using colour is the biggest abstraction from reality possible probably.

I think most of us use the film medium to experiment to a degree, even the older generations of photographers. I have a book by Koudelka on my lap right now. I think there is nothing realistic in the dodged and burned faces of the Gypsies that pop out from the darkness in the images I'm looking at right now, for instance.

I think defining realism is tricky business. Happy holidays all!

I see Phoenix being much closer to traditional C41 print film than Lomo. Phoenix need some improvement in the antihalation layer to become a got to film for me. Phoenix is a quantum leap for Harmon to make as a first step and should be encouraged to grow and mature as an alternative choice to be a C41 negative film for the mainstream.

 

[koraks]

I see Phoenix being much closer to traditional C41 print film than Lomo

Uhm. No.

 

[mtnbkr]

I have the scans back from my first roll of Phoenix. I shot it in my Canon New F-1 with 50/1.4 lens. Camera was set to Aperture Priority mode and the ISO to 160. I let the camera choose the exposure and didn't override anything. The film was developed and scanned by The Darkroom. The scans are their medium quality option. I've resized them to fit the 2mb restriction here, but have made no other changes.

These shots were in direct noon-to-early-afternoon sun on a near cloudless day. The fields in these pics was golden brown and that color really dominates the images.


This picture was taken in my den, with the sun shining through the window directly on the cat. To my eyes the scene was brightly lit and the room was also bright, but the cat is shrouded in shadow as rendered by the film (she wasn't actually in shadow though). She's a dark calico.


Last frame is my dark blue car in bright sunshine. Some halation scene in the right rear corner of the car...


I don't have the prints back yet.

I think I kind of like the film for certain creative uses, but it's definitely not a general use film. I think next time I'll expose it at 200 and stay away from contrasty scenes.

Chris

 

[Agulliver]

I see Phoenix being much closer to traditional C41 print film than Lomo. Phoenix need some improvement in the antihalation layer to become a got to film for me. Phoenix is a quantum leap for Harmon to make as a first step and should be encouraged to grow and mature as an alternative choice to be a C41 negative film for the mainstream.

I'm not sure it is right now....it's very different to something like Lomo Metropolis which I have used. But while some photos work without any fiddling with the scans, indeed some look great, others are wildly off. And I can now see that in my negatives. The intention is clearly to work towards a "normal" C41 film, and what Harman have done is astonishing.

 

[Agulliver]

@mtnbkr I agree, it's best with flat lighting and scenes that are already quite low in contrast. I found that the best photos I took were those with little or no blue sky in, and with the subject mostly filling the frame. Though there were exceptions, that was a general rule.

It's possible, within certain constraints regarding subject matter, to use this as a "normal" film. It's also possible to make some different creative decisions...in my case some worked and some didn't. Next week I'll try and scan my negatives on my Epson flatbed and see what difference that makes compared to the Agfa DLab2.

 

[mshchem]

I hope Harman makes enough money off the Phoenix Alpha that the next-generation film is a bit more tame. Lower the contrast to begin with. However I think that there's a place for weird film. I bought a couple rolls, still haven't figured out what to use it on.

 

[mtnbkr]

@mtnbkr I agree, it's best with flat lighting and scenes that are already quite low in contrast. I found that the best photos I took were those with little or no blue sky in, and with the subject mostly filling the frame. Though there were exceptions, that was a general rule.

It's possible, within certain constraints regarding subject matter, to use this as a "normal" film. It's also possible to make some different creative decisions...in my case some worked and some didn't. Next week I'll try and scan my negatives on my Epson flatbed and see what difference that makes compared to the Agfa DLab2.

I bet it would have been great on my Southwest trip last summer. I don't hate the film and wouldn't mind having a few rolls on hand for creative purposes. But I also happen to like the weird Lomo color films (Purple, Metropolis, etc).

However I think that there's a place for weird film.

I agree. I like unusual color emulsions and semi-unpredictable results. It's funny, what felt like mistakes 30 years ago are now fun.

Chris

 

[Rudeofus]

I agree. I like unusual color emulsions and semi-unpredictable results. It's funny, what felt like mistakes 30 years ago are now fun.

Sun flowers do not match the color of Chrome Yellow, yet some Dutchman successfully ignored this and created something amazing, because that Chrome Yellow accurately represented the emotions many have when we see sunflowers. Our job will not be to somehow coerce Phoenix into color accuracy, but to put its color palette to work for whatever we want to present - or chose a different film.

The only real problem I have with Harman Phoenix is the fact, that it's available only in 135 format, which forces me to find 36 consecutive pieces of subject matter which ask for exactly this color palette.

 

[koraks]

Sun flowers do not match the color of Chrome Yellow, yet some Dutchman successfully ignored this and created something amazing, because that Chrome Yellow accurately represented the emotions many have when we see sunflowers.

With this particular Dutchman, what complicates matters is that the colors he smeared onto the canvas were not the colors we see today. Apart from the technical issues underlying this, it also brings to mind the issue of the eye of the beholder...

 

[Rudeofus]

With this particular Dutchman, what complicates matters is that the colors he smeared onto the canvas were not the colors we see today. Apart from the technical issues underlying this, it also brings to mind the issue of the eye of the beholder...

I am well aware, that the longevity of this pigment leaves a bit to desire, but even in its freshest form its color does not resemble the hue of real sunflowers. At the same time I am quite sure, that hundreds of oil paintings of sunflowers were done before with much more optically accurate colors, yet most people look at van Gogh's painting and can feel, what this painter must have felt.

Therefore I consider the correct use of Phoenix not a set of Lightroom settings to force accurate tonal representation, but the search for sights, which trigger an emotion best represented by this film.

 

[koraks]

Valid comments, @Rudeofus - both of them.

 

[Agulliver]

Therefore I consider the correct use of Phoenix not a set of Lightroom settings to force accurate tonal representation, but the search for sights, which trigger an emotion best represented by this film.

That's probably what I'll do with my second roll. While it is capable of rendering some scenes fairly accurately, it's also able to do great things with some scenes...and awful things with others. The aim is to make a regular, accurate colour film for all occasions but Phoenix isn't there yet. Ergo I'll try and use it's quirks to aesthetic/emotional advantage.

 

[brbo]

EDIT - @brbo if you have some time I'd love to see a higher res scan of 14 and 18. Those red roofs in the evening light in 18 are rendering really nicely on my monitor.

If you have the time to post the negatives, alongside the inverted, corrected images, I'd be curios to see that.

(all three scanned and processed exactly the same, individual frames could use additional small tweaks...)