First roll of Harman Phoenix photos up!

BryanFlnt · Dec 1, 2023

cerber0s said:
You guys are funny! A couple of (more than a couple) pages back it was totally impossible that Harman would release a C41 film. Just would not happen. Now they seem to have done the impossible, while clearly stating it’s a step towards a new and improved formula, and it’s not good enough. Tough crowd!

Agreed. I love seeing the enthusiasm of the Harman staff in the @gainydaysss video. This film is not my thing, but chapeau to Harman for having the backs of a niche of a niche community. When I picked up my camera after 15+ years in the closet Harman and Ilford were still there.

Agulliver · Dec 1, 2023

I've received an email that suggests my two rolls may be with me tomorrow. That would be a surprise as FirstCall's website said 7 days for delivery

armadsen · Dec 1, 2023

I got six rolls this morning. Planing to shoot a roll or two this weekend, weather permitting (snow in the forecast). Anecdotally, when I went to the store to buy them, they were doing brisk business and almost all the customers I saw come in bought some Phoenix.

MattKing · Dec 1, 2023

Thread temporarily locked for some re-organization.

MattKing · Dec 1, 2023

And now re-opened!

For those arriving here first, most of this thread to date was moved from the pre-announcement speculation thread found here: https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/harman-photo-cryptic-announcement-teaser.202435/#post-2733146

I fully acknowledge that there are at least some posts remaining in that old thread that would be appropriate in this thread.

ags2mikon · Dec 1, 2023

Many years ago I worked at a automobile dealership and an old salesman told me never say "who would buy that". Because he said that there is an ass for every seat.

runswithsizzers · Dec 1, 2023

Required said:
So here it is!

Phoenix

www.harmanphoto.co.uk

Was that Philomena Cunk doing the voice over?

mshchem · Dec 1, 2023

runswithsizzers said:
Was that Philomena Cunk doing the voice over?

Oh, that would have been amazing!!!

Henning Serger · Dec 1, 2023

And another first short review, with partly a bit different results:

Samu · Dec 1, 2023

Has anybody tried wet printing this stuff already? All I can find in the internet are from people scanning their films.

bjorke · Dec 1, 2023

They had stacks of it in stock at Glass Key in San Francisco, when I passed there this afternoon to buy some more Pan F & TMax.

Chuck1 · Dec 1, 2023

An ebay ad pops up when viewing this £200 for one roll

Brad Deputy · Dec 1, 2023

That auction is still up? Geez Louise. We saw it this morning, too. The theory is the seller ran out and is keeping their listing alive untill they can get more to sell.

mshchem · Dec 1, 2023

I'm going to just shoot a roll for fun, probably put the other in the fridge or give it to my friend who's a photojournalist. I'm so pleased with how Harman went about this. This should be required study for marketing students. Brilliant.

Roger Cole · Dec 2, 2023

LeoniD said:
Well I've used Kodacolor II that expired in 1984, but was freezer-stored since purchase, and I have to say that I'm not particularly impressed with the color accuracy. Either purplish or bronze skintone, and overall not that much better than Phoenix. Harman's film could be a competitor to this. My photos are shitty, but I don't have any better examples atm

No matter how it was stored it's not fair to complain about 40 year old film. It's like a tap dancing elephant - it's not remarkable because it does it well, it's remarkable because it does it at all.

I used a fair amount of Vericolor III back in the 80s and it was very good.

MattKing · Dec 2, 2023

You wouldn't want to reach conclusions about Kodak colour negative films from the 1970s and 1980s based on minilab or camera store lab prints - although some of those could be quite good.
Those were the days of intense price competition between labs.
If you based your decisions about those films based on prints from a good professional lab, then it would be fair.
Vericolour was very good. And Kodacolour was capable of excellent quality as well - although certainly grainier than current films.

mshchem · Dec 2, 2023

I shot Ektacolor-S (S was for short exposures 1/10th s or less) professional color negative film in the mid 70's. I would send this in to be printed by Eastman Kodak in their Chicago lab. I've not seen anything today that beat the results I got from Kodak. I would use a bit of fill flash, not shoot in the blazing sun etc. Color film doesn't have auto white balance.

I watched a couple of these Phoenix videos today, didn't see anyone try flash. I'm assuming Harman has optimized this film for daylight something like 5500-6000°K.

analogwisdom · Dec 2, 2023

mshchem said:
I watched a couple of these Phoenix videos today, didn't see anyone try flash. I'm assuming Harman has optimized this film for daylight something like 5500-6000°K.

Mat Marrash on YouTube worked with Tariq Tarey in the studio and used flash on the film. Check it out, interesting results.

mshchem · Dec 2, 2023

analogwisdom said:
Mat Marrash on YouTube worked with Tariq Tarey in the studio and used flash on the film. Check it out, interesting results.

Thanks I will.

analogwisdom · Dec 2, 2023

MattKing said:
If you based your decisions about those films based on prints from a good professional lab, then it would be fair.

I think it'd also be fair to judge based on scans of film that was shot back in the day when it was still fresh, and stored properly after development - of which there are some GREAT examples of on Flickr.

Here's some shots taken in 1957 on what I'm assuming is the original C-22 process Kodacolor. I'd say Harman Phoenix isn't even to the level of this 1950's Kodak film. My guess for an "equivalent" era, if I had to put one on it, would be a color negative film Kodak would have been internally testing (and never would have released) in the 1940s or early 1950s, but I admittedly know very little about that era.

mshchem · Dec 2, 2023

analogwisdom said:
I think it'd also be fair to judge based on scans of film that was shot back in the day when it was still fresh, and stored properly after development - of which there are some GREAT examples of on Flickr.

Here's some shots taken in 1957 on what I'm assuming is the original C-22 process Kodacolor. I'd say Harman Phoenix isn't even to the level of this 1950's Kodak film. My guess for an "equivalent" era, if I had to put one on it, would be a color negative film Kodak would have been internally testing (and never would have released) in the 1940s or early 1950s, but I admittedly know very little about that era.

Outstanding. I remember processing in the C-22 days. I printed on Ektacolor Professional fiber base paper.
For home printing it was easier for me to print the Kodacolor-X (amateur) than Ektacolor (professional) films. The Kodacolor had (IIRC) a more pronounced orange mask, it seemed almost easy.

analogwisdom · Dec 2, 2023

mshchem said:
Outstanding. I remember processing in the C-22 days. I printed on Ektacolor Professional fiber base paper.
For home printing it was easier for me to print the Kodacolor-X (amateur) than Ektacolor (professional) films. The Kodacolor had (IIRC) a more pronounced orange mask, it seemed almost easy.

You might be interested in this website if you've never seen it: https://www.photomemorabilia.co.uk/index.html

So much great info about the early days of Kodak and other manufacturers color film and printing. Might be a nice trip down memory lane for you!

koraks · Dec 2, 2023

Samu said:
Has anybody tried wet printing this stuff already? All I can find in the internet are from people scanning their films.

Good question. I've seen digital workflows only, so far.

My guess at this point is that it'll print OK (with maybe some blank C41 film to get more sane filter settings) for low-contrast scenes, but that anything with a SBR that exceeds 4-5 stops or so will require some trickery to get highlights and shadows on the same sheet of paper.

Agulliver · Dec 2, 2023

Regarding Kodacolor II, I learned to shoot on that stuff in the 70s on a 1930s Ikonta. I was fortunate enough to live near one of the UK's largest labs (PTP) which was certainly processing and printing on an industrial scale for amateurs. The prints from those days still look pretty good for the most part but in 2017 I decided to scan some negatives from 1976 and was able to get what I consider better images from them compared to the rather mass produced prints. Kodacolor II was certainly a capable film for it's day and nothing bettered it until Kodacolor VR came along. I was also using Ferrania sourced "Prinz Color" film at the time (boasting "NEW C41 process") because PTP offered a roll free with D&P. It was acceptable but the colours were muted and there was more grain than Kodacolor II. Agfa colour film seemed to be stuck in the 1960s at the time, and I don't recall seeing any Fuji but Sakura was around and it also looked dated as soon as Kodak brought in Kodacolor II.

Phoenix isn't there yet. But it took Kodak, a behemoth at the time, a couple of years to get from the C22 films to Kodacolor II once they started. Harman, with their small crew, have achieved a near miracle to get this far in what seems to be 12 months. Maybe progress will be slow and steady but their interaction on social media suggests they intend to arrive at a more "normal" C41 film. Many people are excited, some are understandably not ready to buy Phoenix as they see it as too "funky" for their tastes. Harman are now interacting on social media saying that these folk may well like future products.

brbo · Dec 2, 2023

Lets get some perspective.

Color Mission was a miracle. Nobody mistook Orwo NC500 or LomoChrome '92 for a miracle, yet they (at least '92) look to be lightyears ahead of Phoenix at the moment.

First roll of Harman Phoenix photos up!

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First roll of Harman Phoenix photos up!

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