First darkroom print

[mehguy]

I was looking at the PhotoWarehouse website and they seem to offer contrast filters of the same price as the Varycon set, but they have the half steps in between like the ilfords. So that might be a better option.

https://www.ultrafineonline.com/ulvafi3x3set1.html

 

[Luis Filipe]

I was looking at the PhotoWarehouse website and they seem to offer contrast filters of the same price as the Varycon set, but they have the half steps in between like the ilfords. So that might be a better option.

https://www.ultrafineonline.com/ulvafi3x3set1.html

Thanks for the info. I just got the set from Ilford in full grades. It was even cheaper then the Varycon ones (also full steps).

Its a good starting I guess.

 

[awty]

I printed this f stop chart to a3 and laminated it. Stuck it to the wall http://twelvesmallsquares.blogspot.com/2013/05/how-to-f-stop-print.html

Should of used Matts, although I did memorize down to 1/3 stops using the chart, Then I got a F stop digital timer and got lazy.

Once you get the basics its handy to work in third or quarter stops on more complex dodge and burns.

 

[MattKing]

That chart appears to be exactly the same as the one in Way Beyond Monochrome.
I should consider laminating mine.

 

[Luis Filipe]

I printed this f stop chart to a3 and laminated it. Stuck it to the wall http://twelvesmallsquares.blogspot.com/2013/05/how-to-f-stop-print.html

Should of used Matts, although I did memorize down to 1/3 stops using the chart, Then I got a F stop digital timer and got lazy.

Once you get the basics its handy to work in third or quarter stops on more complex dodge and burns.

That is great, but I might take it a bit more simpler for now. Like full or half stops.

I think I have everything I need, just did my blackouts with thick bin bags and velcro and it seems to work well. In any case I'll be doing this in the night so no much worries.

As for the dodge and burns I was just wondering while trimming my filters to 6x6 if I could eventually use those leftover pieces to add contrast in specific areas. Does this make any sense?

 

[awty]

That is great, but I might take it a bit more simpler for now. Like full or half stops.

I think I have everything I need, just did my blackouts with thick bin bags and velcro and it seems to work well. In any case I'll be doing this in the night so no much worries.

As for the dodge and burns I was just wondering while trimming my filters to 6x6 if I could eventually use those leftover pieces to add contrast in specific areas. Does this make any sense?

You should progress at your own pace. I tended to do a lot of experimenting early and filled up lots of bins, now I have a better idea what things do what, the bin takes longer to fill.

I kept my off cuts to, but haven't found a use yet.

 

[Luis Filipe]

I was also wondering how do you keep your chemicals at a regular temperature in the trays?

In my case Ill be doing this in the bathroom, it is not too big and it has a wall heater.

 

[Buzz-01]

I just keep my darkroom at 20 degrees Celsius, them my chemicals are automatically at the correct temperature. Just mix them in time or mix them with water at 20 degrees Celsius and you're good to go.
Easy when it's not too hot outside, but I haven't printed in the summer yet, so no idea if that will give me troubles.

 

[Luis Filipe]

Well, here we go. Have done 3 prints/tests, very basic, no dodge and burn, only test strips in full stops and filters changing...for now. I just basically wanted to recognize the process, see it happening.
These are cellphone shots (not very good for photos actually) and images look with a bit more contrast than in paper. But its enough to have an idea.

This was in a train with the window light. Highlights are blown on top And

This was shot in the starting evening trough a window in a station. I wanted the silhouette in the foreground building but maybe would prefer the windows on it and the background building with a bit more light. The light on right hand side is due to the reflex of the station interior.

In here I think I just should have dodge the shadows in the right half of the image or maybe expose them less and then burn the highlights?

Things I have learned from this first attempt:

-I have a strong tendency to slightly under expose my negatives (digital habits maybe?)
-I have to clean my negatives better.
-There is no way I can do any sort of split grade printing with this enlarger. Just don't touch it at all. Very unstable.
-Have to create a more balanced criterium between choosing exposure time and contrast to apply.
-Setting up a darkroom in a "phone booth" requires strong skills on moving around.


Any suggestions are very welcome, and don't be mercy on critics. That is how I like to learn.

regards

 

[grain elevator]

Great pictures, all you need to figure out is how to make things look the way YOU want them.
Regarding the temperature of chemicals, they don't need to be at 20 degrees; it works at any reasonable indoors temperature. 20 degrees is just the temperature the manufacturer given times are for. If it's a bit colder, process a bit longer. This is far less critical than with film development, because you develop paper to completion rather than stopping at a specific point on the contrast/time curve. Just make sure you fix long enough.

 

[Don_ih]

There is no way I can do any sort of split grade printing with this enlarger.

If you use under-the-lens filters, you can hold them while enlarging.

 

[Luis Filipe]

Great pictures, all you need to figure out is how to make things look the way YOU want them.
Regarding the temperature of chemicals, they don't need to be at 20 degrees; it works at any reasonable indoors temperature. 20 degrees is just the temperature the manufacturer given times are for. If it's a bit colder, process a bit longer. This is far less critical than with film development, because you develop paper to completion rather than stopping at a specific point on the contrast/time curve. Just make sure you fix long enough.

Thank you. I could keep them all the time between 19.5 and 20, so no mayor issues on there. About fixing long enough, I do it for 30 sec. According to Ilford thats the time for 1+4 dilution.

 

[Luis Filipe]

If you use under-the-lens filters, you can hold them while enlarging.

These ones are above lenses and goes in a drawer...I have to check if I can use them under.

 

[Buzz-01]

Good to see you've succeeded in your first prints, well done!
As mentioned by others as well, you should make the images so you are happy with them.
If you want to dodge a certain area, just try and see what happens!
To me that's the fun of darkroom printing.

These ones are above lenses and goes in a drawer...I have to check if I can use them under.

You probably can, without any issues (as long as they're clean and not too scratched). Just give it a try!
Some enlargers have a red filter under the lens, which you can swing in and out of the light path. It is used for placing the paper correctly without exposing the paper while the enlarger bulb is already on. Personally I never use it.
Some people remove the red filter from its holder and use the remaining filter holder to put their filters on while printing.
Just lay it on there and you'll have your hands free again for dodging and burning.

 

[Luis Filipe]

Thank you.

Yes. Thats why I mentioned about what I should have done, but this time I just wanted to try from the basic. Next session I might go trough dodge and burn when I find necessary.

About the filters, my enlarger have that piece you are talking, but mine is the red filter the full piece, have to remove it and invent some holder to fit there. But split grade will be a step I wont take now. Its looks superb but I dont even understand it completely yet.

As mentioned by others as well, you should make the images so you are happy with them.

 

[awty]

Thin negs are a pain to do anything with , dense negs arent much better. Number 4 or 5 contrast filters can help.
I use plastic ice cubes to cool my chemicals down. Just pour the illiquid in the tray and and add the ice cubes until it gets to the right temp. The couple of months a year it is too cold I just use another tray of hot water and sit the chemical tray in that till it reaches the right temp.
How are you working out correct contrast filter? You need to find the happy medium of highlight detail and shadow blacks. If your highlights on your test strip are coming in early you need more contrast, if late less contrast....sort of.
The first picture is a great one for dodge and burn. Your highlights on the left side of the little persons face are just right, good starting point. Their left eye just needs a little dodge maybe 1/4 of a stop, Right side needs a bit more work. That will require two lots of dodging, a little extra on the eye. The rest is up to you, dont think it would mater terribly. I usually cut my dodging cards for each job, some have a set they use, lazy people like Matt use their hands :roll eyes:.....actually hands are good sometimes, especially skies and big areas. Watch out for shadows of dodging wire or arms and hands.
The other two lack shadow detail, If you can see it on the neg you might pick it up with a higher contrast filter, then less contrast on the highlights....tricky.
You'll get further along with a good negative with highlight detail and shadow detail of only a few stops difference. Tricky negatives require a lot more work. Once you get the hang of it you can control the final out come much better.
My dark room is 4 1/2' x 6' with a 2'x6' sink and a 4x5 enlarger in there. Im in the process of building another much larger, will be good when finished.

 

[grain elevator]

Thank you. I could keep them all the time between 19.5 and 20, so no mayor issues on there. About fixing long enough, I do it for 30 sec. According to Ilford thats the time for 1+4 dilution.

That's very short. RC paper doesn't take very long to fix, but it also doesn't suffer if it stays in the fixer for a few minutes. I'd go a bit longer. If you do only 30 seconds, you definitely need to agitate continuously.
Keeping the chems between 19.5 and 20 degrees is an unnecessary level of accuracy (again, film development is different). It doesn't help with anything.

 

[Luis Filipe]

Thin negs are a pain to do anything with , dense negs arent much better. Number 4 or 5 contrast filters can help.
I use plastic ice cubes to cool my chemicals down. Just pour the illiquid in the tray and and add the ice cubes until it gets to the right temp. The couple of months a year it is too cold I just use another tray of hot water and sit the chemical tray in that till it reaches the right temp.
How are you working out correct contrast filter? You need to find the happy medium of highlight detail and shadow blacks. If your highlights on your test strip are coming in early you need more contrast, if late less contrast....sort of.
The first picture is a great one for dodge and burn. Your highlights on the left side of the little persons face are just right, good starting point. Their left eye just needs a little dodge maybe 1/4 of a stop, Right side needs a bit more work. That will require two lots of dodging, a little extra on the eye. The rest is up to you, dont think it would mater terribly. I usually cut my dodging cards for each job, some have a set they use, lazy people like Matt use their hands :roll eyes:.....actually hands are good sometimes, especially skies and big areas. Watch out for shadows of dodging wire or arms and hands.
The other two lack shadow detail, If you can see it on the neg you might pick it up with a higher contrast filter, then less contrast on the highlights....tricky.
You'll get further along with a good negative with highlight detail and shadow detail of only a few stops difference. Tricky negatives require a lot more work. Once you get the hang of it you can control the final out come much better.
My dark room is 4 1/2' x 6' with a 2'x6' sink and a 4x5 enlarger in there. Im in the process of building another much larger, will be good when finished.

The actual prints show a bit more detail than in here, but yes I guess the 2nd and 3rd negatives are a bit thin. As I said in my post I always had the tendency to slightly under expose, probably from many years in digital and being more careful with the highlights. I will pay some attention in my next roll.

When you say "happy medium of highlight detail and shadow blacks" you mean that I should have both as close as possible in terms of stops, right? So If I find my ideal highlights details at 11 seconds and my shadows at 32, that means I need more contrast, correct? So then I would run another test strip with a higher contrast filter, or more, fine tuning until I get it...any sense in this?

My darkroom is in the toilet. For now I wont move much things but when I feel more confident in this I will do something about it, including getting a better enlarger, as I also have a 6x4.5 format camera.

 

[Luis Filipe]

That's very short. RC paper doesn't take very long to fix, but it also doesn't suffer if it stays in the fixer for a few minutes. I'd go a bit longer. If you do only 30 seconds, you definitely need to agitate continuously.
Keeping the chems between 19.5 and 20 degrees is an unnecessary level of accuracy (again, film development is different). It doesn't help with anything.

Well I'm just following Ilford instructions. I was using fresh fixer and agitating along the whole time. But if doesn't exist such thing as over fixing I suppose its ok leaving it for longer. How long do you suggest?

Those temperatures were constant inside my darkroom, I wasn't manipulating the temperature at all.

Thanks again.

 

[awty]

The actual prints show a bit more detail than in here, but yes I guess the 2nd and 3rd negatives are a bit thin. As I said in my post I always had the tendency to slightly under expose, probably from many years in digital and being more careful with the highlights. I will pay some attention in my next roll.

When you say "happy medium of highlight detail and shadow blacks" you mean that I should have both as close as possible in terms of stops, right? So If I find my ideal highlights details at 11 seconds and my shadows at 32, that means I need more contrast, correct? So then I would run another test strip with a higher contrast filter, or more, fine tuning until I get it...any sense in this?

My darkroom is in the toilet. For now I wont move much things but when I feel more confident in this I will do something about it, including getting a better enlarger, as I also have a 6x4.5 format camera.

This is just fine tuning. So for the first picture you would do a full picture test strip. I would be p

The actual prints show a bit more detail than in here, but yes I guess the 2nd and 3rd negatives are a bit thin. As I said in my post I always had the tendency to slightly under expose, probably from many years in digital and being more careful with the highlights. I will pay some attention in my next roll.

When you say "happy medium of highlight detail and shadow blacks" you mean that I should have both as close as possible in terms of stops, right? So If I find my ideal highlights details at 11 seconds and my shadows at 32, that means I need more contrast, correct? So then I would run another test strip with a higher contrast filter, or more, fine tuning until I get it...any sense in this?

My darkroom is in the toilet. For now I wont move much things but when I feel more confident in this I will do something about it, including getting a better enlarger, as I also have a 6x4.5 format camera.

Wish I had a toilet in my darkroom, bit gross pissing in the sink.
I usually do a 1 minute fix with RC, longer for FB.
My rule of thumb when taking a photo is two stops max under exposure on the shadows and around 3 or 4 stops of over exposure on the high lights. You can get more stops on the highlights but it becomes tricky, needing to preflash the paper and mask etc. Obviously you haven't got time to spot meter when doing street, so tilting the reflective meter out of the strong light or me just go as slow as I can hold and f4 and hope for the best.
Best to leave leave very thin negs till you get better, Ive been doing it for around 4 years and still cant get any thing satisfactory.
With contrast that would be a very flat negative in the example you gave. Usually the difference on a normal negative will only be less than a stop. So in the first picture, using number 2 filter, I would use the highlight detail on the cheek and hat as my base speed, so if the blacks were coming in before the highlights on the cheek using the test strip this will indicate that number 2 was too contrasty and I would switch to a 1.5 contrast sheet and see what that does. A number 1 might be too little contrast. Really need half stop contrast filters. Another thing you could do is burn in the cheeks a little if you didnt want to go down another filter. Alternatively if the highlights in the cheek are coming in before the blacks then you might use a 2.5 or 3 contrast filter. Ilford have a chart that tells you the light adjustments for different filters so you can use that to gauge new times. Test sheets are good to work out your dodge and burns as well. Try to do the shadows first and strong highlights last on your test sheet.
When I said 1/4 stop dodge that might be too much, 1/8 th probable better. So if the base time was 16 secs a couple of 2-3 second dodges can really lift a face. Im sure the print is better than what Im seeing, but just the same its good to know how to make a face pop out or melt back.

All this is opinionated, you should do what you are happy with. I expect to take another four or five years before Im truly happy with what I print. To me printing is a greater art form to photography, very hard to be good at both.

 

[grain elevator]

Well I'm just following Ilford instructions. I was using fresh fixer and agitating along the whole time. But if doesn't exist such thing as over fixing I suppose its ok leaving it for longer. How long do you suggest?

Those temperatures were constant inside my darkroom, I wasn't manipulating the temperature at all.

Thanks again.

There have been heated discussions about fixing time here... In any case, with RC paper, fixing longer won't hurt the image until you get over, idk, 10 or 20 minutes, then it starts bleaching the image. However you'd probably need to wash longer to get the fixer out that creeps into the open paper at the edges, so better don't overdo. I'd just fix a bit longer than Ilford recommend just to be on the safe side. If you go with the lower 1+4 dilution, that working solution doesn't securely fix any more prints than working solution at 1+7 (because silver concentration is the reason it becomes ineffective), the only advantage is speed!

blacks were coming in before the highlights

I don't understand, is this an accepted way to judge contrast? Whats the advantage over going by how contrasty it looks?

 

[awty]

A better explanation. Of coarse once you understand the principle you can deviate if you wish.....I do
Unfortunately he use seconds instead of stops, but you get the idea.
https://fstoppers.com/education/great-video-making-print-darkroom-178079

 

[Don_ih]

These ones are above lenses and goes in a drawer...I have to check if I can use them under.

You can just hold the contrast filters in your hand, under the lens, and move them around a little so no dust or smearing makes a difference.

I'm afraid you're being bombarded by too much information for someone who has only just now made his first darkroom print, For now, you would get better results easier by using negatives that have been exposed more. In general, though, when your negative is thin, you need to use a higher contrast filter. Dodging and burning becomes a more intuitive process once you have done lots of enlarging. Get comfortable with exposure and contrast filters, the rest assumes a full grasp of those, anyway.

 

[Luis Filipe]

At this point I'm just trying to apply contrast filters properly. I only have full graded filters and I'm doing half stops test strips.

The exposure is the next thing Ill compromise in my next roll. Shooting under the light of London I shouldn't have much issues, but will try to keep my attention on shadows anyway.

Split grade its something ill do in a more advanced fase. I hope Ill have a better enlarger by then too. For now just want to get contrast understood and apply dodge and burn when needed.

Thank you all again.

 

[awty]

You have a good eye, the basics dont take long, perfecting does. Split grade is a weird tangent, guess you should try it at least once. Some prints can be help by changing filters during the process of dodge and burn, best to understand what they do and how to use them.
If you need a book Tim Rudmans "The Photographers Master Printing Course" is very good. Defiantly the best I have on the subject.
Theres lots you can do to a print with just a few rudimentary tools and some chemistry, have fun.