Film Ferrania p30

Chris Livsey · Jun 25, 2017

trendland said:
Hey Chris you got each of us with this
$ 1000,- question of the week.

Chris or are we in business
to : $ 1000, - AT THE FIRST ?????

with regards

What I will say is it was shot at box EI and the two films P30 and Delta 100 were in the same tank, same time, same developer, same scanner settings. If you need x140 detail to decide I think the point is made, $1,000 is not on offer because anyone can follow my signature link to my Flickr where that image was posted with full disclosure.
If you are interested follow that and because it is so easy I will not spoil others fun by posting the answer here.

trendland · Jun 25, 2017

Chris Livsey said:
What I will say is it was shot at box EI and the two films P30 and Delta 100 were in the same tank, same time, same developer, same scanner settings. If you need x140 detail to decide I think the point is made, $1,000 is not on offer because anyone can follow my signature link to my Flickr where that image was posted with full disclosure.
If you are interested follow that and because it is so easy I will not spoil others fun by posting the answer here.

Ok so lets have the character of a challenge to others.
Is this a Delta 100 ?
I wasn't able to look it at your site today
because I am on job now and there is not enough time between.
But tomorrow I will see complete sides.
Guess it is No Delta 100....what could it be elswere....? ..

with regards

pbromaghin · Jun 25, 2017

Chris Livsey said:
Ricardo's shots are lovely, for me. I would have said P30 if asked and they drop into the gallery on the Ferrania page perfectly, that gallery has been updated BTW far more to look at than posted here.
Dead Link Removed

Wow! Chris, thanks for posting that! Beautiful stuff from the public. I too am struck by the medium format look. Can't wait for it to arrive.

Petraio Prime · Jun 25, 2017

Chris Livsey said:
A good example of what I meant when I said muddy shadows, not seen in the other shots.
Personally I think the exposure comments are confusing the look of the film with an apparent desire for all B/W films to produce the same homogenous white to black tonal gradations, plenty of films do that already we don't need another. Just my opinion and I imply no criticism of the look you want to see but that as I say is already available. The closest film I see is the Silvermax from Adox which does tend to attract similar comments.

Delta100

P30

Silvermax

I know underexposure when I see it. I see it.

Old-N-Feeble · Jun 25, 2017

Petraio Prime said:
I know underexposure when I see it. I see it.

Petraio Prime · Jun 25, 2017

Old-N-Feeble said:

You don't? Well, get your eyes examined.

Old-N-Feeble · Jun 25, 2017

^^^ I was agreeing with you... the P30 images are indeed, underexposed.

John Wiegerink · Jun 25, 2017

So, they are underexposed! So what! All that says is that they are underexposed. We can't blame this new film for that unless we try it and find out for ourselves. What I'm saying is each persons technique of determining exposure, equipment used and developing processes very. Oh, and if these negative scans we have to throw that in also. Maybe a meter is off? Maybe this? Maybe that? Personally I will not judge this film, speed wise, until I try it my self. Still, I love the look of the shots posted that are "supposedly" exposed correctly. I will be trying this film later, maybe fall, and see for myself.

tim_walls · Jun 26, 2017

Petraio Prime said:
You don't? Well, get your eyes examined.

The only person who can tell you if the film underexposed (as it were) is the photographer. There is no "correct" exposure for a scene (not even the zone system claims that), only the exposure required to accurately record the scene as visualised by the photographer. Since you are not the photographer, you can test your eyes all you like and still be in no position to make such a categoric statement.

trendland · Jun 26, 2017

Coppola's "The Godfather" 1 + 2 has also
lots of scenes of undereposures.
They also were not caused from bad emulsions !
with regards

trendland · Jun 26, 2017

tim_walls said:
The only person who can tell you if the film underexposed (as it were) is the photographer. There is no "correct" exposure for a scene (not even the zone system claims that), only the exposure required to accurately record the scene as visualised by the photographer. Since you are not the photographer, you can test your eyes all you like and still be in no position to make such a categoric statement.

+ 100%

with regards

Petraio Prime · Jun 26, 2017

Old-N-Feeble said:
^^^ I was agreeing with you... the P30 images are indeed, underexposed.

Oh, sorry!

Petraio Prime · Jun 26, 2017

John Wiegerink said:
So, they are underexposed! So what! All that says is that they are underexposed. We can't blame this new film for that unless we try it and find out for ourselves. What I'm saying is each persons technique of determining exposure, equipment used and developing processes very. Oh, and if these negative scans we have to throw that in also. Maybe a meter is off? Maybe this? Maybe that? Personally I will not judge this film, speed wise, until I try it my self. Still, I love the look of the shots posted that are "supposedly" exposed correctly. I will be trying this film later, maybe fall, and see for myself.

Well, it does not show the true potential of the film.

faberryman · Jun 26, 2017

John Wiegerink said:
I will be trying this film later, maybe fall, and see for myself.

Assuming it will be available in the fall. Who really knows?

John Wiegerink · Jun 26, 2017

faberryman said:
Assuming it will be available in the fall. Who really knows?

Yes, I'm hoping, but who knows at this time. Still, it's something to look forward too instead of the dome and gloom of late.

FILM Ferrania · Jun 26, 2017

Hi everyone,

We are all learning about the processing of P30 film together, and as you can see in our gallery as well as here on APUG and social media - P30 is somewhat malleable, but perhaps not as much as some other B&W films.

This is mostly due to the fact that it's cinema film, and so it sort of "expects" cinema-style processing, which tends to be a bit longer than still processing, with constant agitation, and usually with less aggressive chemistry than the kinds used by many still labs.

Due to the size of our team and our complete focus on delivering film, we are only testing each batch with D96 (which is really the "correct" chemistry for processing this film) and also D76 since it's widely available and can be used by experienced people as a starting-point to understand how the film might work in other types of chemistry.

Eventually, we will have our own internal department running all manner of tests - but for now, we are relying on the savvy of individuals and labs to take our baseline data and adapt it to whatever chemistry and equipment they use.

Being that APUG-ers are some of the most experienced in the film community with respect to non-lab processing, I encourage you to share your results on a new page we've put together: Dead Link Removed

In the comments section, you can post your results - and also up- or down-vote other comments based on your own experience. As some consensus emerges, I will be adding other chemistry and techniques to the data sheet.

Regarding availability of the product, we at FILM Ferrania are of course extremely frustrated by the number of finished pieces available for shipping each week. Since this bottleneck is not due to our coating operations or our own team, I cannot discuss it further. All I can say is that our founder, Nicola Baldini, is devoting the entirety of his time to fix this issue by whatever means available to us.

Petraio Prime · Jun 26, 2017

FILM Ferrania said:
Hi everyone,

We are all learning about the processing of P30 film together, and as you can see in our gallery as well as here on APUG and social media - P30 is somewhat malleable, but perhaps not as much as some other B&W films.

This is mostly due to the fact that it's cinema film, and so it sort of "expects" cinema-style processing, which tends to be a bit longer than still processing, with constant agitation, and usually with less aggressive chemistry than the kinds used by many still labs.

Due to the size of our team and our complete focus on delivering film, we are only testing each batch with D96 (which is really the "correct" chemistry for processing this film) and also D76 since it's widely available and can be used by experienced people as a starting-point to understand how the film might work in other types of chemistry.

Eventually, we will have our own internal department running all manner of tests - but for now, we are relying on the savvy of individuals and labs to take our baseline data and adapt it to whatever chemistry and equipment they use.

Being that APUG-ers are some of the most experienced in the film community with respect to non-lab processing, I encourage you to share your results on a new page we've put together: Dead Link Removed

In the comments section, you can post your results - and also up- or down-vote other comments based on your own experience. As some consensus emerges, I will be adding other chemistry and techniques to the data sheet.

Regarding availability of the product, we at FILM Ferrania are of course extremely frustrated by the number of finished pieces available for shipping each week. Since this bottleneck is not due to our coating operations or our own team, I cannot discuss it further. All I can say is that our founder, Nicola Baldini, is devoting the entirety of his time to fix this issue by whatever means available to us.

How much difference is there between the current product and what was produced in the 1960s?

trendland · Jun 26, 2017

FILM Ferrania said:
Hi everyone,

We are all learning about the processing of P30 film together, and as you can see in our gallery as well as here on APUG and social media - P30 is somewhat malleable, but perhaps not as much as some other B&W films.

This is mostly due to the fact that it's cinema film, and so it sort of "expects" cinema-style processing, which tends to be a bit longer than still processing, with constant agitation, and usually with less aggressive chemistry than the kinds used by many still labs.

Due to the size of our team and our complete focus on delivering film, we are only testing each batch with D96 (which is really the "correct" chemistry for processing this film) and also D76 since it's widely available and can be used by experienced people as a starting-point to understand how the film might work in other types of chemistry.

Eventually, we will have our own internal department running all manner of tests - but for now, we are relying on the savvy of individuals and labs to take our baseline data and adapt it to whatever chemistry and equipment they use.

Being that APUG-ers are some of the most experienced in the film community with respect to non-lab processing, I encourage you to share your results on a new page we've put together: Dead Link Removed

In the comments section, you can post your results - and also up- or down-vote other comments based on your own experience. As some consensus emerges, I will be adding other chemistry and techniques to the data sheet.

Regarding availability of the product, we at FILM Ferrania are of course extremely frustrated by the number of finished pieces available for shipping each week. Since this bottleneck is not due to our coating operations or our own team, I cannot discuss it further. All I can say is that our founder, Nicola Baldini, is devoting the entirety of his time to fix this issue by whatever means available to us.

Hello again - as I Know Nicola Baldini as a great cineast - what do we have to expect with further emulsions of
late 50th - 60th films to complete your
film portfolio in bw?
I can remember Film Ferrania mentioned
something in this direction in the past.

with regards

trendland · Jun 26, 2017

Petraio Prime said:
How much difference is there between the current product and what was produced in the 1960s?

A big difference Petraio Prime P30 is just
"leaned on " original film P30.
Therfore my question to other emulsions
because Ferrania was a european leader
in the early 60th ( absolute hight tech. to that time)
with regards

trendland · Jun 26, 2017

Herr we got it again (the original)

Source : The online darkroom

with regards

FILM Ferrania · Jun 26, 2017

trendland said:
Hello again - as I Know Nicola Baldini as a great cineast - what do we have to expect with further emulsions of
late 50th - 60th films to complete your
film portfolio in bw?
I can remember Film Ferrania mentioned
something in this direction in the past.

with regards

P33 and P36 are certainly on our "to-do" list. However, it's unclear how our future films will relate to the historic ones. In the case of P30, the relationship is direct and almost the same as the original, but this is because P30 was actually produced in the LRF for some years and so we could use the original formula.

We have made some tiny modifications, of course, especially to the hardener - but none of these changes affected the end product. The P30 we are shipping (slowly) today is about 99% the same as what you would have purchased in the 60s - with the 1% difference being technical only.

FILM Ferrania · Jun 26, 2017

trendland said:
A big difference Petraio Prime P30 is just
"leaned on " original film P30.
Therfore my question to other emulsions
because Ferrania was a european leader
in the early 60th ( absolute hight tech. to that time)
with regards

You are correct that Ferrania was truly a leader in the industry at that time. Their scientific and technical expertise was the entire reason they were purchased by the 3M Corporation!

Our team, including some who are waiting to be hired back, were trained and worked during the 3M era. Most of our available documentation regarding R&D production in the LRF was written during the 3M era.

The degree to which things will be different in the future will be based mostly on the availability of raw materials, which is very different today than it was before 3M left Ferrania - and of course the mechanical side of operations, since we are not using ALL of the same machines utilized by the former company, only those that complement our down-scaled size.

trendland · Jun 26, 2017

FILM Ferrania said:
P33 and P36 are certainly on our "to-do" list. However, it's unclear how our future films will relate to the historic ones. In the case of P30, the relationship is direct and almost the same as the original, but this is because P30 was actually produced in the LRF for some years and so we could use the original formula.

We have made some tiny modifications, of course, especially to the hardener - but none of these changes affected the end product. The P30 we are shipping (slowly) today is about 99% the same as what you would have purchased in the 60s - with the 1% difference being technical only.

That is EXACTLY the answer I wanted to
hear! !!!!.........

Thanks for the info.

Bon Chance to you with this
Film Ferrania

Andrew O'Neill · Jun 26, 2017

And one day, P30 in sheets would be great!

Petraio Prime · Jun 26, 2017

FILM Ferrania said:
P33 and P36 are certainly on our "to-do" list. However, it's unclear how our future films will relate to the historic ones. In the case of P30, the relationship is direct and almost the same as the original, but this is because P30 was actually produced in the LRF for some years and so we could use the original formula.

We have made some tiny modifications, of course, especially to the hardener - but none of these changes affected the end product. The P30 we are shipping (slowly) today is about 99% the same as what you would have purchased in the 60s - with the 1% difference being technical only.

So, old developing times would carry forward?

Film Ferrania p30

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