Film Ferrania - Developments from October 2023 onward

[twelvetone12]

"riavviamento e settaggio" means restarting and fine-tuning. If everything stopped and they are indeed restarting production, it would be good news.

 

[CMoore]

I hate to say it, but it doesn't look good, does it?

Did "it" ever look good for this venture.?
Pardon me for exaggerating a bit, but........... talk about rearranging the deck chairs on The Titanic

It's certainly not how I would operate, especially if you want to hold on to existing customers, and dispel rumours.

 

[dkirby]

Did "it" ever look good for this venture.?
Pardon me for exaggerating a bit, but........... talk about rearranging the deck chairs on The Titanic

I think what makes the Ferrania saga so interesting is that there is a market for their films. For example, the site I linked to earlier is now sold out of their 2029-dated "pilot run," less than 24 hours after I shared the link here. Probably a total coincidence, but evidence either way that there are people who want to buy their films. The film was not in stock long.

If they can get their management problems out of the way and acheive consistent production, based on their products I think there is a path for them to become a notable player in the B&W market - certainly above Orwo, Rollei, etc, possibly "third" behind Kodak and Harman.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I for one, have been thrilled with P30 and 33. I'm hoping to be able to shoot them in sheet film, one day.

 

[Harry Callahan]

"riavviamento e settaggio" means restarting and fine-tuning. If everything stopped and they are indeed restarting production, it would be good news.

With Orwo it said the same, somewhere it was noted that they move to a better suited building to improve production. About 1.5 years ago sellout of B&W movie film (16mm and 35m) happened - and since then no new B&W movie film came into the webstore.
Someone said they even sold machinery to produce such stock. Does anyone happen to know who bought this machines?

 

[dkirby]

With Orwo it said the same, somewhere it was noted that they move to a better suited building to improve production. About 1.5 years ago sellout of B&W movie film (16mm and 35m) happened - and since then no new B&W movie film came into the webstore.
Someone said they even sold machinery to produce such stock. Does anyone happen to know who bought this machines?

Yikes.

I don't want to derail the conversation, but as I never really followed the Orwo stuff, could someone provide a succinct summary of what happened as it might pertain to Ferrania's future? I was under the impression that at least some Orwo films were readily available.

 

[koraks]

Someone said they even sold machinery to produce such stock.

There hasn't been a film manufacturer by the name of Orwo for a very long time. It's a brand, not a manufacturer. Manufacturing has been done over the past few years by InovisCoat AFAIK, and they are a fabless outfit renting time on the production facilities of Polaroid. There's a bit of a complex and dynamic arrangement with Jake Seal as an important protagonist going on involving several companies operating under the name ORWO, as well as InovisCoat and FilmoTec. None of them have actual film manufacturing (coating) capacity. Ferrania would presently add that asset to the family.

could someone provide a succinct summary of what happened as it might pertain to Ferrania's future?

Summary: ask @Henning Serger, he can summarize this like no other. Ferrania's future: your guess is as good as mine. So far it's unclear what the exact plans of Seal are with the cluster of legal entities he has been accumulating, discontinuing, reviving etc. And then there's the quite possibly significant gap between his plans and reality.

 

[Henning Serger]

Summary: ask @Henning Serger, he can summarize this like no other.

The wish of the forum members here is my command .
There is indeed lots of misinformation circling around. Lots of it coming from youtubers with no knowledge about film production, and especially no knowledge about the European and German film manufacturers. This misinformation is then repeated in social media groups like reddit, instagram, facebook.

Best is probably to explain the whole complex situation in its own dedicated thread, and in full detail. I hope to find time for that in the coming weeks.

Best regards,
Henning

 

[koraks]

Thanks, much appreciated in advance!

 

[Chuck1]

The wish of the forum members here is my command .
There is indeed lots of misinformation circling around. Lots of it coming from youtubers with no knowledge about film production, and especially no knowledge about the European and German film manufacturers. This misinformation is then repeated in social media groups like reddit, instagram, facebook.

Best is probably to explain the whole complex situation in its own dedicated thread, and in full detail. I hope to find time for that in the coming weeks.

Best regards,
Henning

Do you know anything about adox,
What might be in the works?

 

[mshchem]

The wish of the forum members here is my command .
There is indeed lots of misinformation circling around. Lots of it coming from youtubers with no knowledge about film production, and especially no knowledge about the European and German film manufacturers. This misinformation is then repeated in social media groups like reddit, instagram, facebook.

Best is probably to explain the whole complex situation in its own dedicated thread, and in full detail. I hope to find time for that in the coming weeks.

Best regards,
Henning

Maybe a topic for an article with Silvergrain Classics??

 

[retina_restoration]

Do you know anything about adox,
What might be in the works?

I too would like to know. It seems almost all of their film products have vanished from retail shops, even Fotoimpex. Sheet films have been absent for nearly 2 years now.

 

[Harry Callahan]

There hasn't been a film manufacturer by the name of Orwo for a very long time. It's a brand, not a manufacturer.

...

I`m aware, i was talking about Filmotec - but i wasn`t sure whether everybody knows who Filmotec is so i used "Orwo", also because the B&W movie film was sold in a can labeled "Orwo" and the website also is called "Orwo".

 

[dkirby]

FYI we have a new instance of a "limited edition" version of P33 becoming available in an Italian store. Posted on Instagram this morning:

The photograph doesn't seem to have anything to do with the announcement, besides the fact that it is generically film-themed. Their website doesn't seem to sell film, from what I can tell. Could also be I'm having trouble with the translation of it all.

Their IG profile does show them selling film in store; their most recent post (2 weeks ago) has P30 on display on a shelf, in stock.

 

[mshchem]

FYI we have a new instance of a "limited edition" version of P33 becoming available in an Italian store. Posted on Instagram this morning:

The photograph doesn't seem to have anything to do with the announcement, besides the fact that it is generically film-themed. Their website doesn't seem to sell film, from what I can tell. Could also be I'm having trouble with the translation of it all.

Their IG profile does show them selling film in store; their most recent post (2 weeks ago) has P30 on display on a shelf, in stock.

Color negative film. Fascinating!

 

[fs999]

On July 12th there was an inauguration of the Monument “Ferrania P30” in Cairo Montenotte (hometown of Ferrania).

I hope it's only a representation of the monument : they used a 5 for the S of ASA

 

[tykos]

P.F.G. PUNTO FOTO GROUP By Karl Bielser s.a.s. - Sistemi di presentazione delle immagini, apparecchi fotografici di medio e grande formato, carte da stampa fine-art inkjet

this store has always been really close with ferrania (like stands at events and so on), they have this special edition:
"In attesa che Ferrania riparta definitivamente con la produzione, è disponibile in serie limitatissima la P33 (PiTrentaTrend) 135/36 nel contenitore in alluminio Vintage. Trattandosi di una produzione pilota ci possono essere dei difetti, comunque da considerarsi marginali (in caso di difetti conclamati non riconducibili ad errata impostazione degli ISO sula fototcamera o esposimetro esterno, o errori in fase di trattamento, la PFG – compatibilmente con la disponibilità del prodotto – sostituirà la pellicola difettata con un’altra). Sono confezionate in caricatori originali senza codice DX."

my translation, more or less:
"while ferrania steadily starts with production, it's available in a very limited series P33 (PiTrentaTrend) 135/36 in a vintage aluminum can. Being a pilot production there could be some marginal defects (if there are bigger defects not related to a user error we will replace the film with another one). They come in original cassettes with no dx-code"

 

[koraks]

while ferrania steadily starts with production

Or "in anticipation of Ferrania starting production definitively". Close, but not quite the same. The question is whether they're in the process of starting up, or whether they expect to do so.

 

[twelvetone12]

I would translate it like this: "While waiting for Ferrania to definitively restart production", "definitivamente" used in this context means in a way that is the final, definitive, i.e. "restarting production for good (and not expecting it to have interruptions)"

Fun fact: I bought one of those "Film Dose" in Hamburg around 2005. I always thought it was rebranded Agfa film! Maybe it was Ferrania color film.

EDIT: I just wanted to add that these kind of announcements are always a bit ambigous and often not really written in "correct" italian, to sound a bit more formal and pompous than what would be really needed. I would take them with a grain of salt, the overall gist is that "they are working towards steady production"

 

[Agulliver]

I have read elsewhere that Film Ferrania have recently produced a test run of P30. I assume P33 too after reading the above. As production was halted, and some staff left, they do need to establish their prior levels of quality control. It's all such a shame because P30 and P33 have their fans (I like P30 in certain circumstances) and they had just achieved production quantities to keep the film in stock when the crap hit the fan.

No fan of Jake Seal but it does appear that he's got the ball rolling at Film Ferrania again.

 

[koraks]

No fan of Jake Seal but it does appear that he's got the ball rolling at Film Ferrania again.

Are Ferrania proceeding because of Seal's involvement, or despite it?

 

[tykos]

Or "in anticipation of Ferrania starting production definitively". Close, but not quite the same. The question is whether they're in the process of starting up, or whether they expect to do so.

it's debatable, but i'm reading yours as: they had some film in storage.
The original it's more like: someone turned on the machines and is tuning the process, here's what came out of it, which is similar to the other shop's description. They also talk about pilot production (short run), so it's not something they already had in hand.
Will they start the real production? Not enough info in that statement.

 

[koraks]

i'm reading yours as: they had some film in storage.

That's not how I intended my translation. The snippet I translated in my view only pertains to the startup of definitive (volume, stable) production, and my translation remains true to that reading.

The original it's more like: someone turned on the machines and is tuning the process

If you refer to the pilot production, then yes, but that's another part of the segment: "Trattandosi di una produzione pilota" refers clearly to the film presently being sold.
I don't read the turned on and tuning bit in "riparta definitivamente con la produzione". And "in attesa" I would certainly translate as "in anticipation of", as it's to the best of my knowledge a near perfect fit. Then again, Italian is not my first language, and also by far not my second. Maybe there are connotations I'm not aware of.
So my take on it is that there have been pilot batches produced. These may or may not be the same batches they've already been selling from film from; this is not made explicit in the snippet you posted. I suspect it's the latter and that they did not run a separate pilot batch for these metal-can films, but that's interpretation on my part. The present situation I would summarize as either in anticipation of starting volume production, or in the process of starting volume production. Again, the text is IMO indeterminate.

Will they start the real production?

The intent is at least explicitly stated.

 

[twelvetone12]

(native Italian speaker here) Guys I think you are reading too much into this. It just says that while they are waiting for continuous production, they are selling a test batch which could have small defects, and they will replace the film if it does. Since it calls it "produzione pilota" it hints that it is a pilot run before production, that instead of throwing away, they sell as a limited edition.

 

[tykos]

That's not how I intended my translation. The snippet I translated in my view only pertains to the startup of definitive (volume, stable) production, and my translation remains true to that reading.


If you refer to the pilot production, then yes, but that's another part of the segment: "Trattandosi di una produzione pilota" refers clearly to the film presently being sold.
I don't read the turned on and tuning bit in "riparta definitivamente con la produzione". And "in attesa" I would certainly translate as "in anticipation of", as it's to the best of my knowledge a near perfect fit. Then again, Italian is not my first language, and also by far not my second. Maybe there are connotations I'm not aware of.
So my take on it is that there have been pilot batches produced. These may or may not be the same batches they've already been selling from film from; this is not made explicit in the snippet you posted. I suspect it's the latter and that they did not run a separate pilot batch for these metal-can films, but that's interpretation on my part. The present situation I would summarize as either in anticipation of starting volume production, or in the process of starting volume production. Again, the text is IMO indeterminate.


The intent is at least explicitly stated.

well, there's not enough informations in there, and it seems to be written by the shop and not by ferrania so who knows where it stops the official part and starts the fantasy. But as i've said that shop ad some of its partners have always been close to ferrania, i've always taken their words as more or less official statements. Don't know their relationship with this new property, but they are the only ones i found selling this bundle and posting about it, so...

The only fact, more or less, is that these rolls are not the old stuff they used to sell, but a new test run. "limitatissima", so very very few quantities.

We can speculate on:
- do they want to start production? (well, i'd say so, otherwise why this test run? to test the machines and produce orwo film? possible, but...)
- why the test run? (i'd say they are checking and tuning the process. that's something i'd do before a real run)
- "in attesa che riparta definitivamente con la produzione" with no speculations is: they used to regularly make film, they stopped, they want to do it again and they are selling this film [surely with some minor defects, given all the disclaimers]

I'm not keen on mr. orwo's past after reading about it here and there, btw. we'll see.